First Dog Fight

[Guest Trish66]

So my typically sweet, mild-mannered greyhound, 3 1/2 year-old Alex got in his first dog fight today! A little background - I adopted Alex 2 months ago. He's my first and only dog. We live in a townhouse w/o a fenced in yard. I take him out 3-4 times a day to do his business, and then I like to take him for longer walks in the park to get a little more exercise. And before today, I'd taken him to the dog park twice (w/o a muzzle - stupid, I know!) w/o any problems. The rescue group says he's not cat-tolerant, and I have noticed that during walks in the park and at the dog park, he gets agitated when he see smaller dogs. Well, he gets agitated when he sees any dog - w/ smaller dogs I tend to just keep him away and w/ larger dogs, once he meets them, he's fine.

 

Fast forward - we went to the dog park, to the large dog area, and there was a beagle and two larger dogs. Things were fine until the beagle started barking and snapping Alex. At one point, the beagle's owner got him, calmed him down and even said to me "Oh, he's not used to dogs that can stand over him." (Which should have been my cue to get Alex out of there). They started playing again, beagle starts barking and snapping again, and finally things completely escalated into a fight w/ several of us rolling around on the ground trying to get them separated. The beagle's ear was scratched up but that seemed to be it. And the owners were very nice about it all, saying "it happens" and didn't even get any information from me. Of course, everyone else cleared out, and I heard one woman refer to Alex as a "maniac".

 

I could spend all day re-hashing what I did wrong today but I'd rather focus on where I go from here. I know he needs to be around other dogs. Do I make sure he's muzzled everytime we go to the dog park? Do I skip the dog park, and try to find a play group? We're signed up for a group obedience class next month so I think that will help as well. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Pat

[4greyhounds]

I am very Sorry this happened to you. But that is the reason why I don't go to dog parks. We have tried to go but people bring small dogs into the big dog park. To me personally I think a Beagle belongs in the small dog side, I maybe wrong but whatever wrong or right, a lot of greyhounds are not used to being around other breeds if they were just off the track. I take mine to a open field that is open and we go at times other people are not or we will go to grey play groups where all dogs are muzzled but I have seen bad experiences there too, I personally just like to have mine run the yard . I had a bad experience too when I went to the dog park when we first got our greys and a lady brought her dog into the big dog park, it was not as nice though...Please don't be too hard on yourself.....

[Busderpuddle]

I don't have any advice but just wanted to say how scary that must have been for you !

I am sorry it happened but glad there were no serious injuries.

[Houndtime]

I don't like dog parks and possible dog fights is just one reason. They are unhealthy, also. People bring dogs to play who might be sick, have worms, are not innoculated, etc. and your dog can pick up many things from contaminated soil. Any time I have brought a sick dogs to the vet, they always ask, were you in a dog park.

 

That being said, and if you decide to return to the park, certainly do not muzzle your dog unless all dogs are muzzled. You will be allowing your dog to be unprotected should any unexpected situation develop. According to your post, your dog was not at fault and did not instigate the altercation.

[djsgreys]

I am so sorry this happened to you and Alex. It is exactly the reason though that I don't ever go to dog parks. Although I truly believe that greyhounds need to socialize with other breeds, I prefer to do it in very controlled situations where all of them are on leash. For fun and interaction, we stick with the greyhound only runs that our group hosts.

[Brindles]

Been there! It happens. Try and find an all greyhound playgroup. I wouldn't muzzle unless all other dogs are muzzled. The number one reason for that is safety. The number two reason is people will assume your dog and therefore all greyhounds are vicious.

 

My Dazzle picked up someone's Yorkie when I first got him. He won't start a fight, but he'll bolt across a field to join in one.

[PrairieProf]

It is not stupid to take your dog to the dog park without a muzzle -- it would be stupid to do the opposite, as it leaves your dog defenseless. Only use muzzles when ALL dogs present are muzzled.

 

I too go to the dog park as I don't have a yard (well just a tiny one) and Beth would almost never get to run if I didn't, but I will NEVER let Beth loose with small or even medium-smallish dogs -- she is vulnerable to getting too excited and if she does she's way too much for them. This generally means going very early in the morning when she can be alone or with "regulars" -- I am fortunate that around 7:00 a.m. (earlier in the summer) the only folks who go are just a few who have large dogs Beth plays well with, and they're savvy about dog behavior. Or sometimes if the small-dog side is empty we use that, separately (I also won't let her off if there are more than a few dogs of whatever size -- too high a risk for dangerous pack behavior). Or, when there's no snow on the ground, I've found another fenced not-technically-for-dogs-but-not-evidently-illegal field I take her to run.

 

I think you've just learned your lesson (fortunately without major harm to anybody) that you have to be much more careful about when it is safe to use the park. People here are mostly very anti-dog park, but for those of us who don't have spacious fenced yards it's a matter of being aware of the risks and being really vigilant -- not being able to use the park when you hoped to because some idiot has a small dog in the big dog area is a pain, but not as much as what could happen. Greyhound playgroups are great, but not all of us live in areas with regular ones (besides, I think my dog needs to run at least every other day!). So maybe too, like me, you can find a time with some regulars it works well to have Alex be with.

Edited January 23, 2011 by PrairieProf

[Guest TBSFlame]

Dog parks can be dangerous. Iwould not put him in a dog park muzzeled when others are not. A greyhound play group or maybe you could find another owner with a yard and have a smaller play group.

[OwnedBySummer]

As everyone else said, do NOT muzzle Alex unless all the other dogs are muzzled. I'm so sorry this happened but I don't believe the beagle should have been on the large dog side. And I would have definitely asked the beagle and his people to remove themselves to the small dog side. Is there no greyhound playgroup in your area that you can join? If Alex will run on his own, can you make your own portable gates and go to a fenced baseball diamond, install the gates in the two entrances and then enjoy your play time? If you have an available diamond and don't know how to make the gates, let me know and I can send you photos of mine.

Edited January 23, 2011 by OwnedBySummer

[Guest issy]

Lucky for us Enzo is very low energy, and when we've taken him to the dog park, he doesn't run and play anyway. He's great with other dogs, however, so far. But we don't do the dog park when it's busy for all the reasons mentioned. There are just too many aggressive-dominant dogs for my liking - last time we went (it's about half and hour away) just to take enzo to potty and leave(we cruise a lot), Enzo was very nearly attacked while on leash by another leashed dog on it's way in. Needless to say, we didn't go in (and I said to the owner, that dog seems too aggressive to go in there!) and the other dog went in and proceeded to instigate fights with several other dogs. Enzo has also been peed on by a dobie, and humped by several dogs (I know they do that, but the owners just get embarrassed and pretend it's not their dog...)

 

Anyway. You didn't do anything wrong. At the first signs, it's important to remove yourself from situations because you definitely can't count on others to do the same. Also - by the time you see the first signs, it can be too late.

 

We love going to meet n greets where Enzo can be around other hounds - he LOVES this. And then we just walk/jog him other times he's feeling it. As for your dog needing to be able to be around other dogs, it sounds like he's fine and it was the beagle's problem!

[fourofem]

I've never taken mine to a dog park. House is just too "alpha" to be turned loose with other dogs (other than his brothers and sisters) and Hitchie is downright obnoxious to anything other than a greyhound. I don't trust my two so I sure don't trust a park full of other people's dogs. Greyhound play dates are fine since everyone is muzzled. I take mine (usually the boys and Lizzie....Stel gets carsick) to a totally fenced-in soccer field at a local high school and they have a blast. Don't know if there is such a field where you live or if you know other greyhound owners but it would be fun if you could get together with them. Don't know how much fun he'd have by himself. As for breaking up a fight, be very, very careful. There are plenty of threads out here to get some information on ways to handle that. Trust me...I know what can happen and it ain't fun!!!!

[TheFullHouse]

The obedience class will help. There will be other dogs there and the instructor should be able to give you some good tips. I agree with others as to the muzzle. See if there is an all greyhound play group in your area.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Pat,

 

First of all I am sorry this has happened.

 

As the result of an experience, I do not do dog parks any more. Last time I was there, one woman had her GH - who only liked other GH's and her toddler in the fenced area. One person (large dog area) had her GH and Pit - the breed snob went for the pit, pack instinct kicked in and most people froze. It was not pretty - that was a GH play time, however in a public park where anyone could be there.

 

I have higher prey hounds, all very sweet and loving as they come, just a high prey drive. I have a small back yard, but they make do with it.

 

When I lived in an apt.I did at least one couple mile brisk walk a day, kept them in decent shape.

 

My take on what I read in your post, is that the beagle, being the aggressor, should have been removed. However in dog language, one dog standing over another is rude.

 

I am another that would not take my dog muzzled if others are unmuzzled.

 

It is shocking, nerve-wracking and downright scarey when we see our gentle sweet hounds show us what they are capable of.

 

 

Now relax, give Alex a hug, and think of the lessons learned today.

 

Pat

[Guest greybookends]

When you take your hound to obedience class ask the instructor about some all breed playgroups. Some places have them. There is one here and it is $5 a session so you wouldn't want to do it everyday but maybe once a week for the socialization with other breeds in a controlled environment.

 

I also would not recommend muzzling unless ALL the dogs are muzzled.

 

I don't like dog parks but I understand they are a necessary evil for some with no other options. You just have to be very vigilant and learn how to control the situations and learn when you can't and leave.

 

I think dog parks would be better if there were park monitors whose jobs were to maintain and help keep clean the parks, make sure small dogs and large dogs were only in their proper play areas, keep an eye out for non vigilant owners and force them to control their dogs and make them leave or ban them if they didn't. It would be like hiring a security guard and maybe users would have to pay a nominal fee to pay for it but if it kept my dog safe I would not be apposed to it. It would be kinda like a lifeguard at the beach but just for dogs.

 

I am glad there were no serious injuries for either dog or the people involved. I hope you can find a safe way to exercise you baby.

[Guest dizzyLu72]

I personally don't think you did anything wrong.. nor did your dog. I wouldn't let this detour you from visiting the dog park if your dog is usually well behaved and tends to enjoy it.

The fact that the beagles owner actually said "Oh, he's not used to dogs that can stand over him." should have been their cue to remove their dog from the area or to keep a close eye on what they were already anticipating due to their dogs previous experiences.

I find that when a scuffle takes place at a dog park, people always look to the larger/louder dog as the bully.. when it's not always the case. Don't get mad at me because your smaller dog taunted my bigger dog and "bit off more than he could chew" so to speak. So don't let the spectators "maniac" comment bother you. Heck, just reference that the Beagles owner verbally admitted that their dog "isn't used to dogs that can stand over him".

[Batmom]

I know he needs to be around other dogs.

 

No he doesn't. He may enjoy being around other dogs, but he's an adult (not a puppy, who does benefit from learning from the elders) and is likely content with his human(s).

 

You were right not to muzzle -- if one is muzzled, all must be.

 

I'd do as several others have suggested -- seek out a GH playgroup and/or scope out when the dog park is mostly unoccupied.

[Guest sheila]

I take my greys to a dog park and we're lucky in that it is a VERY large dog park (about the size of 2 football fields). If a situation comes up with someones dog(s) that seems a little dicey I just leash mine up and we head for another area. Is you park large enough that you can do that? If not perhaps going at a time when it is less busy might be a solution.

[Guest DarkHorse]

I personally take my two to dog parks on occasion (no yard here either) as well as once a week greyhound play groups. The play group is a muzzled one but obviously the dog parks aren't. I've learned to go either early in the morning or later in the evening, as the parks are quieter and there's fewer bad owners around. I've only ever had one "incident" where a woman with an "oodle" mix was letting her (unaltered) bitch mount all the other dogs. The dog tried it with Dexter, who slid out from under her, gently shouldered her away and casually stepped aside. The owner, of course, freaked out about my "vicious" dog who was "torturing" her poor baby. I told her that she was lucky her dog hadn't tried that with a truly vicious dog because she might not have survived and if she couldn't keep her dog from behaving poorly, she shouldn't be in a dog park with it. The woman stormed off, spewing curses at me, and once she was gone all the other people there came over to thank me: seems she'd been brushing them all off when they tried to ask her to either control her dog or leave.

 

I'm very lucky: neither of my two has an aggressive bone in their body (at least not towards other dogs... rodents beware). They love small dogs and are super gentle and sweet with them. Some dogs and owners do seem to get a little nervous, but a quick call will send my two on their way and I'll generally talk with the owner and explain that my 60lb girl stamping at the ground is trying to play with their dog and she won't hurt them. If they're still uncomfortable, I'll recommend that they try the other park in town as it has an area exclusively for small dogs. Most are grateful to know about it and take the advice. The few that aren't are generally the ones with the aggressive small fluffies and after one encounter, my guys will leave them alone. The best thing I've taught them is "leave it", which will get them away from both nervous and aggressive dogs before anything happens. In the rare situation in which that particular dog is going after them specifically, I'll step in, grab the dog and ask their owner to walk it away. That almost always works. In the end, though, I only have control over my dogs and if there is a dog that I cannot trust at all, I will leave.

[Guest Trish66]

Thanks everybody for the feedback and support - I really appreciate it! Needless to say, it's probably going to be awhile before we try the dog park again - if at all. If we do, definitely no muzzle (thanks for clarifying), and probably either very early or very late when no one else is there. And I'll start looking into greyhound play groups.

 

Thanks again - I knew I had come to the right place

[greytpups]

My experience with dog parks is that a lot of people take their dogs to them but have very little knowledge about dog behaviour in general and do not keep their pets under their control. I've seen so much "he just wants to say hello" behaviour and I've tried to explain to the owner that their dog's behaviour is aggressive, not cute, but to no avail.

 

I prefer greyhound play groups for socialization...at least I know all of the owners and they control their dogs.

[JaneW]

First, glad no one was hurt! Contrary to what some here have said, it's my opinion that Alex started it by persistently standing over the other dog and not backing off when it objected. Greta does this, too. Dogs don't do that by accident or mistake. If they don't mean to to do it, they back off when told to by the other dog. It's a rude, pushy, and bossy behavior. To people who don't know dog body language it looks completely innocuous! I caught Greta doing it to my sister's most dominant dog at Xmas. Even after he snarled and we told them both to stop it, she kept going over to him and standing right up against him in spite of his trying to walk away. To most people it would have looked cute and friendly, but was in reality just the opposite (We separated them for a while till Greta mellowed).

 

I forgot to add--reading some dog behavior books can be very helpful. The Other End of the Leash is a good one.

Edited January 24, 2011 by JaneW

[Guest Cardiffcouple]

As everyone else said, do NOT muzzle Alex unless all the other dogs are muzzled. I'm so sorry this happened but I don't believe the beagle should have been on the large dog side. And I would have definitely asked the beagle and his people to remove themselves to the small dog side. Is there no greyhound playgroup in your area that you can join? If Alex will run on his own, can you make your own portable gates and go to a fenced baseball diamond, install the gates in the two entrances and then enjoy your play time? If you have an available diamond and don't know how to make the gates, let me know and I can send you photos of mine.

 

 

We would love to see the photos please! No where safe to run our hounds. Thanks!

[Guest june]

I love for my dogs to have play time with other dogs, but I also have had a bad experience at the dog park. My solution is for a friend (who has 5 well-behaved large non-greyhounds) and I to meet at the dog park when there is nobody else there. The dogs love running and playing and they all know how to behave. Finding someone with well behaved dogs and going when there is no one else there might be a solution for you.

 

So glad no one was hurt!

june

[OwnedBySummer]

Okay, here's a bunch of gate pictures...

 

Here it is "hooked" onto my staircase. Normally, this edge should overlap onto chain link fencing. Both sides, of course, are made exactly the same way.

 

Here's a closer look at one of the bungies. You need the 2 bungies (total of 4 hooks) on each side. 1 bungie won't make it secure enough.

 

Another bungie shot...

 

Against a lighter background so you can see the fencing material better. The plastic gate material can be purchased at Home Depot and it is stocked near the chicken wire. I don't remember what it's called, though.

 

Here's a closeup of the edge construction. You could just use a long piece of wood but, from other's experience, wood is much more fragile. What we've used here are plastic fence tension bars, available from Home Depot.

Edited January 27, 2011 by OwnedBySummer

[Guest missecho]

Very cool! thanks so much for the instructions

Eileen