Ollie's Coat And Now Teddy Too

[RobinM]

I am going to recap as quickly as possible.

 

As many of you may remember, Ollie started losing hair in little spots throughout his coat. He had a line around his neck where his tag bag lays with hair missing and a medallion sized one with NO hair where his tag bag rests in the center of his lower neck. The collar is not tight on him at all.

 

THe loss of hair started right after he had a few fleas, was treated with advantage and capstar. One week after treatment we treated with pred for 10 days because he was still scratching.

 

We went to see 2 vets. One treated with 10 days of clavomox to make sure it was not an under the skin infection. The 2nd vet (one of the big guns who is pretty much retired and comes in for very brief periods one or 2 days a week) He said just leave it, sometimes he gets worse before better. But unless we do a skin bx, there is no way of really knowing and he was not ready to do a skin bx just yet.

 

We are now almost 2 months since this started. Ollie's coat has some peach fuzz growing in some of the spots BUT his thighs are now bald. Totally.That medallion shaped spot is totally bald. When I take a magnifying glass, there is no hair growth.

 

In addition, now his deep red coat is turning BLOND? WTH is going on?

 

I have noticed Teddy's hair also is getting weird.

 

Common denominator?

 

They both were on pred for 10 days.

They both eat raw.

They both started melatonin back in the early summer and had AMAZING, truly AMAZING results. I backed off because I did not want them looking like Borzis and I have been giving them the melatonin every other day.

 

Could it be the melatonin? Lack of nutrients? Pred? (it was only 10 days and it was over a month ago)

 

 

This is insane!

 

This is from tonight.

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2011 by RobinM

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

No advice but that is strange

[Guest PiagetsMom]

You know, Robin, my very first thought when you first posted about Ollie was some sort of reaction to the Melatonin. I hesitated to suggest it as I know nothing about Melatonin usage in dogs as a hair stimulus, but I guess I'd be wondering about it.

[Guest jettcricket]

Geez Robin that is strange. I too have been using melontoin on just my boys...and yes, it does work! But I stopped.....I did notice that on both of them their teeth within 6 months of having a cleaning needed their teeth done again, which I thought was unusual. Normally they only need a yearly if that...and I thought could it be the melontoin. As far as Ollie's coat blonding up maybe it could be the melontoin. That's what's in our skin and hair....the other problem I don't know. Yeash.....please keep up updated. Curious to know what's going on....

[Batmom]

Have skin scrapings been done?

[duncan41]

The lighter hair may be as a result of what his body perceives as an "injury" to the follicle. As to the cause, I have no idea. Did the regrowth begin before or after you re-introduced the melatonin?

[Guest PhillyPups]

The color change in Ollie could just be getting his "home coat" in. They do change and he is fairly new to your pack.

 

As for the spots, I have no ideas. Could it be something environmental??

 

I would suggest a skin scraping to see what it is.

 

Have you checked the cats for fleas?? I did see one boy so severly allergic to flea bites he looked like he had ringworm and his black coat was dull - after a time of care, he turned out to be a beautiful shiney black boy.

 

 

Did you try benadryl for the itching? Prednisone is strong and I do not like to mess with it myself unless absolutely necessary.

 

When you feed totally raw aren't nutrients, vegatables/fruit, etc added in?

 

I am amazed, and I guess blessed. I must say, in my years of having hounds, and the number I have had, the only medical problems, other than the normal aging, that I have had have been cancer.

 

The only thing I give mine for their "coat"is fish oil, and they all have thick, shiny, soft coats. But then I do not do meds (which I feel melatonin is) unnecessarily.

 

Good luck.

 

ETA - I am not a vet, I don't even play one on TV, I am just blessed with healthy hounds

Edited December 12, 2010 by PhillyPups

[MaryJane]

One of my boys looked like this because of allergies. With him, the hair would go on the neck, thighs, and the sides of the stomach.

[cleptogrey]

looking at the neck pic it looks exactly like annnie's neck, she is growing winter coat, . she too is a red fawn w/ black tips and gets a blochy coat. i have seen the variation in coat color and texture in both dogs, felix has a real skimpy coat, totally bald butt most of the time.both of the pups change color in the winter, they go to a much lighter red fawn.

 

we went thru a strange coat experince after felix was on flagyl for a good period of time. it straightened out his gut, but he developed bald spots in a couple of area. at first the spots almost looked like he was nipped by another dog who pulled the hair out- but as we all know they don't have enough hair for that type of nipping- the skin just tears. then more fell out and the hole got bigger and there were more spots. no signs of any type of mange, no fleas on him what so ever. i used this wierd ointment, goodwinal(sp?) on the spots, every night i dabbed him up- all over. it took2-3 months for his hair to grow back. as soon as he went onto flagy again, more bald spots appeared. my vet has never read anything about flagyl and hair loss, but when this happened a second time he looked at felix and said,"anything is possible" when we realized we were dealing w/ the same situation AGAIN. go know..... i would go w/ the older-semi-retired vet's opinion of wait and see.it is strange that both dogs are developing spots, but teddy's looks different to me. also maybe try a different collar.

[RobinM]

Answer to some questions-

 

No skin scraping, Vet said not yet. That was almost 2 weeks ago.

 

Cats- yes, the cats did have fleas along with everyone else. I am still combing throught everyone and I have not found anything, including flea dirt in about a week.

 

We've had Ollie for over a year -not so new anymore. this is never how his coat or color have been. It was thinner on the neck before the melatonin but not with gaping holes and the "blond" color is in patches where it was once deep red.

 

I stopped the melatonin about 5 days ago as a start to see how things go. I also added in some sea kelp which was recommended from the GH data forum.

 

When I feed raw, in their "rolls" or chop meat or duck, it is added in bone, organ and veg. Ratios are not provided.

[GeorgeofNE]

No real idea, but I would like to point out that "natural" remedies do not always turn out to be harmless--

 

Case in point: my VET told me to give George Valerian Root extract to help with his SA. She did so on the recommendation of a veterinarian friend of hers--that human friend was taking it himself to help sleep. I bought it, I gave it. Not sure if it helped, but hey, it was NATURAL, so what could it hurt.

 

Next blood works showed VERY elevated liver enzymes. The ONLY change in his diet was the Valerian root. Stopped that, retested in six weeks. Values were going back down. Retested again in 6 more weeks--enzymes totally normal! My vet has since apologized and stopped recommending it for dogs as we searched the web and found web site after web site telling hepatitis patients to NEVER take Valerian Root as it has the potential to mess up the liver.

 

I personally would stop supplementing with anything for a bit and see what happens. Lot easier to narrow the cause of this down if you're not adding things that aren't essential to the diet.

 

I would also consider ditching the tag bag on the hound who has lost his fur right exactly where that lays. It would be an amazing coincidence to lose fur right under that and have the tag bag not somehow be the cause.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Do any of the others of your gang share possible causes with Ollie and Teddy? Anyone else on melatonin or prednisone at the same time as the boys? And do either of the girls get the same diet as the boys?

 

My instinct is to absolve the raw diet as a problem. There's too much existing evidence of good results from feeding raw, and it's not as if a normal raw diet gives a dog anything that's "unnatural" to its diet. I'm inclined to point fingers at pred only because I know of people having problems with it, and I'd wonder if it or the melatonin in combination with something else unusual is triggering the problem.

 

I'd also wonder if there's some sort of mite or other bug that's going after the boys (possibly the boys are more attractive because of their diet or the pred or the melatonin?). What's worrying me is that--now that you know more than one of your gang is having this problem--you have to worry about whether it's going to spread even further. With both boys having the problem, you may be dealing with a contagion.

 

I'd go back to your more trusted expert and ask if having a second affected dog isn't a good reason to do a skin scraping now. Whether this turns out to be diet or something else, the sooner you can eliminate mites or flea dermatitis or some other external contagious thing, the safer you can keep Beau.

 

Meanwhile, can Teddy and Ollie wear shirts? If so, maybe start putting t-shirts on them (or on the dogs that aren't sick) to minimize the potential that something is spreading skin-to-skin because the guys are sharing beds. A friend who once fostered a greyhound with ringworm just kept the ringworm dog in t-shirts until the problem cleared up: fresh shirt every day, with the excess fabric pulled to the dog's back and rubber-banded it in place so the dog could walk without stepping on the shirt's hem. (Check a Goodwill or other second-hand store for used shirts, because if you put shirts on everyone, you're going to need a larger wardrobe. )

[robinw]

ringworm?

[KF_in_Georgia]

Robin, something has occurred to me.

 

I've seen ringworm before. (I'm a dog groomer, and I see it on dogs at work.) When I saw Ollie's coat, it didn't look like ringworm to me, and I think some other people said that, too. (Color-changing isn't common on dogs with ringworm.)

 

But it occurred to me today: I've never seen ringworm on a dog taking melatonin. Even if it's not ringworm, but is flea dermatitis or something like that, it may be that your vet isn't recognizing the problem it because the melatonin is disguising or hiding symptoms that the vet would have recognized.

 

So I think I'd push for skin scraping or other tests on the grounds that the melatonin (or pred) might be hiding ordinary symptoms.

 

Good luck.

[RobinM]

This is what we have done.

 

We have stopped the melatonin abouit 4-5 days ago.

 

Tag bag if off.

 

We will make appt for skin scraping.

 

Weird, isn't it?

[Guest KennelMom]

food/diet/absorption of nutrients can affect coat color. I'd definitely keep a halt on the melatonin and give it time to see how it goes. Is it just hair loss in that one spot on the neck?

[RobinM]

food/diet/absorption of nutrients can affect coat color. I'd definitely keep a halt on the melatonin and give it time to see how it goes. Is it just hair loss in that one spot on the neck?

 

 

No, see link.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/264977-what-the-heck-is-going-on-with-ollie/

[cleptogrey]

it takes long term use for a dog's skin and coat to change on predisone. i had an addisonian pup who was on it for 10 years. it took a while for his skin and coat to thin. when i have had dogs on pred. for short term- 5-15 days there was no noticable change.

 

i have also watched the same dog change color not only from season to season, but year to year seasonally. anything is possible coat wise.

a skin scraping is fast, pretty painless and fast results. you just end up w/ a bald spot where they took the skin .

 

i agree, omit suppliments, remove tag collar and even change to a really soft old collar.

[RobinM]

it takes long term use for a dog's skin and coat to change on predisone. i had an addisonian pup who was on it for 10 years. it took a while for his skin and coat to thin. when i have had dogs on pred. for short term- 5-15 days there was no noticable change.

 

i have also watched the same dog change color not only from season to season, but year to year seasonally. anything is possible coat wise.

a skin scraping is fast, pretty painless and fast results. you just end up w/ a bald spot where they took the skin .

 

i agree, omit suppliments, remove tag collar and even change to a really soft old collar.

 

My Beau was on long term very high doses of pred and it wasn't until after a year that the thinning started with him. He had a really thick farm like coat. It never resumed.

 

We stopped everyhing but the food and we took off the tag collar.

[cmc333]

When they do the skin scraping, make sure they also check for fungal infections.

 

Connie

[RobinM]

I am updating which I could have done over a month ago. I kept Ollie on the melatonin, raw and everything else he was on as per my vet. No changes and look at this.

 

From this:

 

 

to this

 

 

My vet who had been on maternity said it could be something as simple as "Seasonal alapecia". As far as Teddy, he was diagnosed with hypothyroidism which would explain his sudden hair loss. His coat is fine now too.

 

So, if anyone got nervous about the melotonin, don't!

 

Here's Ollie now with his deep red, lush thick coat!

Edited February 18, 2011 by RobinM

[PrairieProf]

I'm glad things are back to normal! That would have freaked me out pretty badly too.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Oh, yay! Glad the boys are back to normal.

 

My Sam is having some health issues (the vet is thinking early-stage IBD). Things got a bit alarming (his weight was down to 58 pounds), and I tiptoed through three weeks of extra kibble (for his weight) and no fooling around with off-diet items. (He's notorious for stealing and eating entire bags of marshmallows. I locked up everything. Did you know you could refrigerate marshmallows and they'd keep perfectly well?)

 

Anyway, another vet visit after three weeks, and Sam had put on 2 pounds AND the vet was much happier with the state of his coat. They really can turn around fast.

[RobinM]

I have to say, not only was I very concerned with the way he looked but I was mortified. He looked like a poorly tended to, mangy dog. It was pretty bad.

[Guest Energy11]

Looking Good!