Aggressive Behavior

[Guest ilovelucy]

We've had Lucy for three years and she is going to be seven. She has sleep aggression and definite dominance issues. We've worked through those by not letting her on the couch/bed and doing the "leave it" with toys when she gets protective. The other issue she has is with paper. Hates it when I read or crinkle paper. When I do, she pops her head up and growls and barks from her bed.

 

The other night though was different. She was on her bed, which is about five feet from where I sit on the couch. One time she did her normal growling as I turned pages of my book. But, later, I barely moved and she started growling, and then actually jumped up and came over to me with teeth bared, growling and barking. My first reaction was to leap up, which I did. Then I screamed "No" and she stopped and backed away toward her bed. I grabbed her collar, still saying No and pulled her the bed. She immediately laid down and turned away in a submissive way. She was quiet the rest of the night.

 

Her jumping up like that was extremely disturbing. She didn't necessarily try to bite me, but since I moved, I don't know. When I moved she did not lunge toward me. After it occurred and into the next day, I did the ignoring technique. I read about this where you ignore the dog after bad behavior only acknowledging them with commands and giving them their basics (food, walk, etc.). It's hard for me to to this, but I've done it before after other bad behavior and it's worked.

 

I did a search on greyhound aggression and found a past thread where a woman put her greyhound down because of Rage Aggression. I researched that and am sick over the fact that what is described as rage aggression is exactly how Lucy acted the other night. I am just beside myself thinking about it since most articles say you have to put the dog down. She does not show any aggression to anyone or other animals even, although one article said rage aggression is seen mostly toward the owners. She has never bit or even tried to bite me or my husband. Her way is to give a little growl saying your in my face. Even though it was just checked, I am going to call the vet as she is on thyroid medicine, but wanted to get the greyhound experts opinions too.

 

Note that last night I sat in a different spot and didn't read. She barely looked up and made not a sound.

 

Thank you all for any input you can provide.

[Batmom]

Ignoring the dog for any length of time after the event is pointless -- the dog has no idea what you're on about and is only confused that his/her formerly loving person isn't anymore. ..... How long has she been on thyroid medication? Did she have a full thyroid panel before that was started? .... Have you consulted your adoption group?

[Guest ilovelucy]

Ignoring the dog for any length of time after the event is pointless -- the dog has no idea what you're on about and is only confused that his/her formerly loving person isn't anymore. ..... How long has she been on thyroid medication? Did she have a full thyroid panel before that was started? .... Have you consulted your adoption group?

[Guest greytloves]

I have a Lucy, but not aggressive.

 

I have an aggressive grey. For reasons completly out of his control and we are working on them. It is a daily work in progress. It does not sound she is to his level - thank goodness for you - I would advise dog training class to re-establish who his in control. Maybe holistic meds, maybe look to see if she is not feeling well (possible food or even a medical issue). Right now, I am looking into the last resort of Prozac for mine. But he is a really, really special case.

 

True Rage Aggression in Greys is not a usual thing. It sounds more like a self confidance either lack of or too much of that you need training classes to work it out. That and a vet check.

 

eta: Really check into that thyroid thing and get with Batmom on that. Too many greys are misdiagnosed and not needed to be treated.

Edited July 29, 2010 by greytloves

[Guest ilovelucy]

Ignoring the dog for any length of time after the event is pointless -- the dog has no idea what you're on about and is only confused that his/her formerly loving person isn't anymore. ..... How long has she been on thyroid medication? Did she have a full thyroid panel before that was started? .... Have you consulted your adoption group?

 

 

She had been on medication ever since we had her so for three years. We have her checked consistently and she recently had the full panel. I contacted the adoption group and haven't heard anything yet. One article indicated that rage aggression (found mostly in english springers) is genetic. I know of two full siblings and two half are in the area. I have never heard that they had an issue, but maybe so. One other article indicated that there is a fine line between rage aggression and dominant aggression. I can accept that and will do what I can to work through it, but the fact that the descrption of the rage aggression is just like what happened scares me. Thanks for the input.

[Guest ilovelucy]

I have a Lucy, but not aggressive.

 

I have an aggressive grey. For reasons completly out of his control and we are working on them. It is a daily work in progress. It does not sound she is to his level - thank goodness for you - I would advise dog training class to re-establish who his in control. Maybe holistic meds, maybe look to see if she is not feeling well (possible food or even a medical issue). Right now, I am looking into the last resort of Prozac for mine. But he is a really, really special case.

 

True Rage Aggression in Greys is not a usual thing. It sounds more like a self confidance either lack of or too much of that you need training classes to work it out. That and a vet check.

 

eta: Really check into that thyroid thing and get with Batmom on that. Too many greys are misdiagnosed and not needed to be treated.

 

Thank you for your input. Your comments have made me feel a little better. I'm calling the vet now. Good luck with your grey.

[turbotaina]

Sorry to harp on about the thyroid thing, but are you having a full panel by dialisys done at MSU? You need to make sure she's getting her TSH checked, not just her T4 levels. That being said, a friend's greyhound tried to kill someone's whippet when his thryoid med dose was too high. I would definitely look into it.

[Batmom]

A full panel won't tell you anything if she's already on meds, other than that the meds are being absorbed. If there's no record of her having had a full panel (NOT JUST A T4!) before she came to you, you might want to discuss that with your vet. She would have to be weaned off the medication, no meds for 6 weeks, and then get a full panel. Thyroid supplementation when it isn't needed can cause touchiness and aggression -- even after all this time. ....... Since her issue seems to be with a particular activity, it isn't likely that she has anything like rage syndrome. If her problem is not one you feel you can manage now, please contact your adoption group for help.

[Guest ilovelucy]

Sorry to harp on about the thyroid thing, but are you having a full panel by dialisys done at MSU? You need to make sure she's getting her TSH checked, not just her T4 levels. That being said, a friend's greyhound tried to kill someone's whippet when his thryoid med dose was too high. I would definitely look into it.

 

Don't be sorry (even though I am sick over your greyhound/whippet comment). I appreciate your knowledge. I just left the vet a message and mentioned the MSU, TSH and not just T4 comments. Thank you.

[inugrey]

Reminds me a great deal of what happened to a GTer and her dog, Gabe. All was fine and he suddenly got up and growled and snapped in her face. They did a series of medical tests and they did find something...I completely forget what. I forget her GT name and haven't seen her online in a while. Anyone remember who I'm talking about? She would be invaluable right now.

[racindog]

Please forget about rage syndrome. Lucy doesn't have that. What you describe is not at all like the "rage" syndrome you have read of for several reasons. And sleep "aggression" doesn't even count-especially in a greyhound. Paper may be a "trigger" but that is not rage syndrome. I have had actual dangerously aggressive dogs and I have to tell you Lucy sounds far far removed from that. Please don't label or fear her as an "aggresive" dog. A truly aggressive dog will fight back not back off as she does. Resistance fuels their fire and they come on stronger and relish the fight. You two can work this out. Love overcomes all. I vote for a medical or behavior issue that may need to be addressed but please don't fear and label her something she isn't. You've come to the right place for advice. There are lots of people here who love to help houndies that are very knowledgeable. Good luck and scritches to Lucy!

[Guest ilovelucy]

A full panel won't tell you anything if she's already on meds, other than that the meds are being absorbed. If there's no record of her having had a full panel (NOT JUST A T4!) before she came to you, you might want to discuss that with your vet. She would have to be weaned off the medication, no meds for 6 weeks, and then get a full panel. Thyroid supplementation when it isn't needed can cause touchiness and aggression -- even after all this time. ....... Since her issue seems to be with a particular activity, it isn't likely that she has anything like rage syndrome. If her problem is not one you feel you can manage now, please contact your adoption group for help.

 

I just left the vet a message and will make sure he addresses your comments. THANK YOU. I love my Lucy with everything and totally committed to managing her behavior no matter what it takes. Giving her up is absolutely not an option. I've contacted the group for feedback (especially on her siblings), but haven't heard anything yet. Our adoption rep is a trainer so I'm going to call her too and have her come over to assess the situation. Thanks again.

[RobinM]

Reminds me a great deal of what happened to a GTer and her dog, Gabe. All was fine and he suddenly got up and growled and snapped in her face. They did a series of medical tests and they did find something...I completely forget what. I forget her GT name and haven't seen her online in a while. Anyone remember who I'm talking about? She would be invaluable right now.

 

 

Yes, I do remember. It was her ear that was basically bitten pretty badly, but I do not remember who.

 

Anyone?

[Guest brandi007]

I'm the owner of a very growly dog and can honestly tell you that growling is a warning, not rage. If she wanted to hurt you she would and you would know it. She's not comfortable with something that's going on and that's what she's telling you. I've been bitten by a dog before and can tell you he never growled he just lunged and grabbed onto my arm, no warnings. You can work through this, don't give up and take the advice given here as these greyhound owners are very knowledgeable!

[racindog]

Reminds me a great deal of what happened to a GTer and her dog, Gabe. All was fine and he suddenly got up and growled and snapped in her face. They did a series of medical tests and they did find something...I completely forget what. I forget her GT name and haven't seen her online in a while. Anyone remember who I'm talking about? She would be invaluable right now.

 

Yes, I spoke with her. Gabe I believe had temporal lobe epilepsy and as my Minny apparently does. It is NOT like what she described as Lucy doing. I call it a brain fart- it is not triggered by paper or anything else-it is completely unpredictable-VERY violent and he haas no memory of what happenned afterward or during. With Minny it is easily managed-he just has to wear a muzzle all the time and be closely supervised. To me- and him- that is no biggie. I think that basically she managaed Gabe the same way-don't remember for sure. Anyhow it is not anything like what Lucy does.

 

I'm the owner of a very growly dog and can honestly tell you that growling is a warning, not rage. If she wanted to hurt you she would and you would know it. She's not comfortable with something that's going on and that's what she's telling you. I've been bitten by a dog before and can tell you he never growled he just lunged and grabbed onto my arm, no warnings. You can work through this, don't give up and take the advice given here as these greyhound owners are very knowledgeable!

 

Very well put! Ditto.

[Guest Bang_o_rama]

Just wondering...do dogs sleepwalk? Because if you combine a bad dream and/or sleep aggression with sleepwalking, it might look something like what the OP described.

 

~D~

[Guest scfilby]

IS there any way possible that you could be confusing play? Our Cy will growl, bark, air snap, and generally look scary. He mouths hands and arms, but is only excitedly playing. It reminds me of what you describe only with a waggy tail.

 

The reason I ask is how quick your pup backed down and that you didn't get bit when you gabbed the collar. Generally, if a dog is already aggressive and you grasp for the collar, you are usually going to be sorry.

[greysmom]

I'm the owner of a very growly dog and can honestly tell you that growling is a warning, not rage. If she wanted to hurt you she would and you would know it. She's not comfortable with something that's going on and that's what she's telling you. I've been bitten by a dog before and can tell you he never growled he just lunged and grabbed onto my arm, no warnings. You can work through this, don't give up and take the advice given here as these greyhound owners are very knowledgeable!

 

 

Second this!

 

It doesn't sound at all like any rage syndrome I've heard about. You mention in the first sentence of your post that Lucy has some issues with dominance and it sounds to me like you have a *dog bully* on your hands.

 

Growling is a warning - the first step in the way your dog tells you it doesn't like something. It's also the way dogs intimidate others into doing what they want. She doesn't like you making paper sounds, so she growls, and because she either feels she's the boss of you, or because she's afraid of the paper sounds, she escalates sometimes to growling and lunging. If she had actually wanted to hurt you, she would have. Period.

 

Definitely figure out the thyroid thing. That's the first and most important step. If this escalation has come on suddenly it's likely that her thyroid is involved. Either too much or too little can cause aggression and anxiety.

 

And if she's truly *afraid* of paper, you can try some de-sensitizing techniques to try and lessen her fear to the sight and sound.

 

If you discover it's a behavioral issue you need to take steps to re-establish order in the household and Lucy needs to NOT be in charge. Obedience training can be helpful in this regard. Also, doing more intensive Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) training can help. Basically, she doesn't get *anything* she wants until she does something *YOU* want. Handfeeding every meal, no furniture or people bed priviledges, clear and consistent rules and boundaries - this is what she needs.

 

If she's laying quietly and acting nicely while your reading, she should be rewarded for her good behavior. Ignoring bad behavior usually only works proactively on problems like jumping and barking, and then, only if you consistenly reward good behavior and ignore bad. Ignoring doesn't work on it's own as the dog doesn't understand why it's being ignored.

 

Also, many won't agree, but I do not allow my confident, dominant dog to growl for no reason. I know her and how she operates, and if she growls to try and bully either me or one of the other dogs, she gets corrected. A sharp "AH" and maybe a loud handclap is all it takes to let her know she's not the one in charge. If she growls over a bed or furniture she gets moved off (use a leash or teach her a command like "off" or "down" - don't ever physically grab her collar to move her). If she's too barky and loud and crabby in the yard she gets re-directed with a command and a yummy treat, so she knows she gets something good for changing her behavior.

 

You want to reward for positive behavior so she understands what it is you want her to DO, not what you want her to stop. Replace the bad behavior by reinforcing good.

 

Good luck!

[Guest LindsaySF]

To me it sounds like sleep/space aggression combined with a fear of paper sounds. I would work on desensitizing her to paper sounds. (Use a muzzle, it will make you feel better). Doesn't fit the criteria for rage syndrome, don't worry about that. Good luck.