Rainey - Need Advice/help On What To Do ...

[RaineysMom]

Hi guys, really need some help/advice with my baby girl Rainey...

 

we’ve had Rainey since May of 2005 and she will be 10 in October. We’ve had issues on and off since we got her, with her getting into things (which you may have read about here over the years) – the last was right after her bloat surgery in Feb 09, eating the garlic braid (toxic) that was on the wall in the kitchen. We couldn’t make her vomit because of the stitches but luckily she didn’t get harmed from eating it. Right after that, we installed an upper gate that pairs with the wooden gate on the stairs down to the family room, so it’s double high (she’s jumped the single one, at least when we first got her and it would probably kill her if she did it now). We removed literally EVERYTHING from the room where she is gated, except for a couple rows of CD’s by the fireplace, which 3 days after that she ATE a cd. So those were removed, and now all that’s left is the couch, my chair, loveseat (all those in an “L” format), and 2 tables (with 2 coasters and a small lamp on mine, 2 coasters and a couple magazines on Bruce’s – we kind of hoped that if she ever did go after something again it would be harmless mag’s). There’s also a built-in bar in the “back“ of the room (next to the stairs), we have a barstool up near the front opening (between the back of the couch and the front of the bar) and another dog gate placed there, just leaned up) – and another stool and wooden board that blocks the back of the bar, where there’s a lot of stuff still behind there. She has been fine since then (March of 09). Then, she began to pee in her area, just once in a while (this was maybe 6 months ago – no UTI, was checked). Now, in the past maybe 2 months or so? she’s been peeing and/or pooing more often, with it being almost if not every day for the past 3 weeks (or 4?). And she goes pee 3 times (we restrict water after 8pm) and poops once before Bruce leaves, and I’m home 6 hours later every day. The pee is usually just a tiny amount but the poo is a normal big one. One day a couple weeks ago I got off early and was home an hour and a half early and she had already gone. So, one question is why is she doing this all of a sudden? We’ll have both urine and fecal checked this month when she goes in for her shots.

 

THEN, this Saturday, when we were gone – she destroyed/ate the side of the leather loveseat in her area – wow. There’s actually a flannel sheet and pillow (they used to lay on the couch and use the pillow before we got the Slumber Balls) on the couch, and a 3 sided bolster dog bed (small) on the loveseat – and when we came home on Saturday we first thought she had ripped apart one of those dog beds. I don’t even know how she was able to rip it up like that, I would have thought she’d go after the top (seat) part (or the flannel sheet or pillow!), not the side, which is kind of hard to get to. We were really hoping she had not actually eaten any of the couch material (but obviously we know now she did).

 

Something must have set her off, the gate that protects the “front” of the bar was knocked down and she had gone back in there, knocked a little wooden bird thing off the rail (4” high rail) too (but didn’t appear to eat/destroy anything that we can tell, we’ve remove 95% of everything back there too even though it’s blocked). Now, we have a blanket secured (as best we can, I don’t think it could ever be “dog” proof) around the arm of the loveseat that’s opened up but I’m afraid to ever leave her alone now – which obviously has to happen. Or will she go after another part of the furniture now…

 

As some background (and sorry this is so long!) we did crate her when we first got her in 2005 (her foster family said she did fine, which I know she did for them – they had a male with her too, next to her maybe?) but she went NUTS in the crate, destroying every blanket or comforter we put in there. The last one she unraveled and got a long piece of string wrapped around the 2 inner toes of one of her back feet, and she had spun so many times it became like a tourniquet and cut the circulation off. Luckily it must have happened not too long before I got home as she was ok about an hour after I got it off. So after that, we tried (once) leaving her in the bedroom with the door shut, she tore up the wall and carpet by the door. From there, we tried (once) to gate her in the family room (where she is now, our house is a split level and the middle floor is open to the family room below so it’s not really “closed in” per se) and she jumped the damn thing, how she didn’t kill herself is amazing. So, after that, she had the “Run” of the house, but really the living room and dining room were gated off (on middle floor with kitchen), all the upstairs rooms were shut, as well as the laundry room and bathroom in the basement where the family room is. Over the years, she would like every 3-4 months destroy something – once it was that duck call that we think may have triggered her pancreatitis attack, another time a book, another time the fireplace broom – too many to mention.

 

So….here we are. I don’t know what else to do. I don’t know if she would crate ok if she was next to Nube upstairs? It’s been so long I doubt it, and we can’t even put anything in there for her to lay on, which at nearly 10 is not good. If we muzzle her, we can’t use her regular one with the stool cup (which would be the best to keep her out of trouble), I’m afraid if she vomits she will suffocate. Plus she gets a Kong when we leave - if not she goes nuts - and a muzzle without a stool cup might be better as she could get her Kong, and would be better if she vomited, but if she can get to her Kong she can get to other stuff too. We’ve never left them out alone together, I’m too afraid of them getting into a fight (they’ve only had 2 real ones, one 3 weeks after we got Nube, over a stuffy, and the other over an ice cube just a few months ago). We couldn’t leave ANY food (Kongs) out with the two of them if left together, muzzled or not, and she’d go nuts without her Kong. They’d have to be muzzled too, and same issues above apply.

 

I know I am neurotic about them, especially about leaving them alone together – I know many do. Maybe she’d be okay without her Kong if Nube was there? And how bad can they hurt one another with just the regular muzzle on if they fought? I don’t know. We need to figure out what to do with her so this doesn't happen again...

 

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated, and sorry this is so long….

Edited July 13, 2010 by RaineysMom

[mychip1]

Thank God she made it through her latest bought of unexpected intake!! Not much advice....but I wish you the best. I know they can get to stuff through their muzzles, but it might reduce the amount of things she can get into.

[TheFullHouse]

It sounds to me like she's having separation anxiety because she's separated from Nube during the day. I would try muzzling both without stool guards, minus the kongs for a couple of hours (like over the weekend) and see how they do. They won't like the muzzles but it will keep them safe. If you're not comfortable with that, get out her crate and set it up upstairs and try going out and closing the door and listening to see what happens. I think the most important thing right now is to prevent her from eating anything else inappropriate and ending back up at the vet's. The two of them have lived together long enough that they should be able to get along while you're gone.

 

I crate 6 of mine and muzzle 4 when I leave and they do very well. I just make sure there is nothing for them to argue over, like toys or food while I'm away and unable to monitor their behavior.

Edited July 13, 2010 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest eaglflyt]

We leave our girl and our fosters all muzzled. Other than being annoyed by their muzzles, they have all done just fine. We don't leave often, but they are fine when we do. When they are together, there's no need for a kong. They have got into arguments in the turnout while muzzled, we were there, and the argument lasted maybe 15 seconds and nobody was injured. We observed and were ready to get involved if necessary, but it wasn't needed.

 

Our girl has big issues with being crated. However, if she's next to someone she is much better and relaxes.

 

Try out the muzzling together (without kongs) while you're home on another level, and see how it goes. Also, we have used duct tape to make a modified stool cup a few times. Just use as much, or as little, of it as you feel is necessary to provide safety without a possibility of being a danger if she needed to throw up.

 

Best wishes for success!

Edited July 13, 2010 by eaglflyt

[Guest TBSFlame]

My first thought she is bored and lonely. Maybe an x-pen in the family room. Do you crate Anubis? Maybe an x-pen for Rainey and Anubis in a crate next to her. I muzzle mine and leave them out together. I used to put a babygate in the hall and the two olders ones were in the back of the house without muzzles but Jeremy can clear a 4 foot baby gate at will so I now muzzle all of them with the exception of Memmie. She is in a crate b/c she loves her crate. Maybe meds to calm her down when you leave might help. Good luck.

[Guest scfilby]

Some dogs are better with a companion. Our three are alone together for 4-6 hours a day and we have no issues.

 

The behavior you are describing in classic SA. Destructive chewing, elimination, etc. Once a pup develops a "place" to eliminate it is difficult to stop. Also, with her age, she may be needing to go more often, but with the short times you are describing this is likely not the problem.

 

Companionship definitely helps in most cases. Can Nube be in the downstairs room? I would use regular muzzles and do the alone training thing where you leave for very short periods so you can check on them.

[Batmom]

As others, I would try leaving them together safely -- if need be moving Nube's crate to the area where you can most safely leave Rainey, or muzzling both (without stool cups) and seeing how they do. If she has Kong expectations, you could even do some trials of going thru all your leaving prep, give Kongs, and hang around until the Kongs are done (which will take awhile with muzzles, but). ........ I would probably also recheck for UTI and perhaps even give a course of antibiotics to see if that does any good. On the one hand, it does seem to be classic SA. On the other hand, peeing 3 times within a couple hours (I'm assuming that's the timespan) is a bunch. So could be UTI, crystals, etc. contributing to SA. Hugs and more hugs, and don't forget you have friends who can sometimes watch dogs if need be.

[Guest Lillysmom]

Kim, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I don't have a whole lot to offer that differs from what you've already heard, except to maybe contact Meghan Herron from OSU. She presented information at the OSU Greyhound Health and Wellness Conference this past spring about separation anxiety. Even if you're not able to travel to see her and get her advice, maybe she could refer you to someone closer or do a phone consultation with you. Here's the web address to the Behavioral Medicine Clinic with her contact info: www.vet.osu.edu/behavior

 

Hugs to you, Rainey, Nubers, and Mr. Evil! Lots of love to you from Wisconsin!

Edited July 13, 2010 by Lillysmom

[greysmom]

I agree with trying out muzzling both dogs and leaving them together. Can her crate be set up downstairs? I would do that, muzzle her, leave her Kong, and put Anubis down there with her (or someplace where they can see each other).

 

Does she have a problem with vomiting regularly?? I know it can happen, but you may be over-estimating the danger from that. If it's a choice between preventing her from killing herself by chewing and eating inappropriate things and the remote possibility she'll vomit and suffocate, I would definitely be thinking hard about that choice.

 

Also talk with your vet about trying a course of anti-anxiety medication. If she is that destructive even after all your work, she needs some additional help.

 

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is getting her some additional exercise in the morning before everyone leaves. This may mean getting up earlier for a long, brisk walk and/or play session, but a tired dog is a good dog. At ten, she's not going to need as much exercise as a puppy to tire her out. This should help empty her out more too.