Zero And Snapping

[greydad92]

Hi All,

Zero's daddy here. I have a few questions about greyhounds and snapping at things. So far I've had a few incidents.

1.) 01/01/10: Zero bit my nose. My fault. I was trying to pick him up off my love sleep just after he woke up, he slipped off the love seat, twisted, snapped and got my nose. Again, totally my fault. "let sleeping dogs lie"

 

2.) A month or so ago Zero snapped at a cats face. He's seen cats before, but I wasn't sure if he was cat friendly or not. An older female friend of mine who has cats was sitting her porch with her cat in her lap. On our walk Zero and I stopped her house. She let Zero get close to the cat. Zero and the cat sniffed each other a few times and that was about it. All was relaxed, Zero and the cat seemed comfrtable around each other. After about ten minutes of no issues, Zero looked at the cat, snapped and got the cats face, but did not draw blood. I pulled Zero back and said "no!" and that was that.

 

3.) This morning Zero and I were on our walk and we saw a neighborhood lab mix (Nash) and his human on their walk. Zero has known Nash since he was a puppy. Nash was on a leash as well. The thing about Nash is he's now almost a year old, but still has a lot of puppy left in him. Anytime Nash meets Zero he just jumps all over him, licks his face and goes overboard as far as saying "hello" to Zero, while Zero just stands there and "takes it", being the mellow greyhound that he is. Well, today Zero snapped at Nash. Nash yelped and his owned backed him off.

 

I'm just concerned with Zero around kids. So far Zero has been wonderful with kids. I don't have any, but my friends have kids and occasionally we meet up with kids on our walks. Zero is SO fast when he snaps that it's hard to anticipate anything. He's quicker than you can blink your eye.

 

Does anyone else have experience with greyhounds that snap? I know all dogs do, it just seems that Zero is a little more prone to than what I'm used to.

 

Thanks,

Zero's Daddy

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Ok, I go over each:

 

1) yes, you should have woken him up, he was probably scared since he was falling. Non issue.

 

2) Cats. Well, there are a few other things that you may have not seen that happened before Zero tried to "zero" out the cat. Was he staring at the cat? Were you able to get his gaze away from the cat? Did he whine, pant, have a drippy nose? Was he able to fully relax, such as laying on his side, not in the prone position? If yes to any of these, then expect him to try this again with cats he sees. These are all behaviors of hounds that see cats as prey.

 

3) Absolutely 100% the other dogs fault. What Zero did was a correction. Its what momma dogs to do puppies when they jump and lick at mom's face. Your hound did nothing wrong. It is rude dog behavior and the other dog's owner should realize this and not hold anything against your hound. In fact, maybe the other dog learned a lesson and will not jump in dogs faces from now on.

 

Your hound doesnt seem any more prone to snap than dogs that I have been around. Each instance he "snapped" seemed normal in the given circumstances. Would I worry about your hound snapping at a kid, not unless the kid is jumping on Zero, pulling his ears, and otherwise acting like a total annoyance.

 

Chad

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

Zero sounds pretty normal to me. Adult dogs can correct puppy-ish behavior thats a little too rambunctious, not all dogs are cat safe, and snapping at you sounds like a one time incident that you may have accidentally caused.

 

 

 

 

[greydad92]

Ok, I go over each:

 

1) yes, you should have woken him up, he was probably scared since he was falling. Non issue.

 

2) Cats. Well, there are a few other things that you may have not seen that happened before Zero tried to "zero" out the cat. Was he staring at the cat? Were you able to get his gaze away from the cat? Did he whine, pant, have a drippy nose? Was he able to fully relax, such as laying on his side, not in the prone position? If yes to any of these, then expect him to try this again with cats he sees. These are all behaviors of hounds that see cats as prey.

 

3) Absolutely 100% the other dogs fault. What Zero did was a correction. Its what momma dogs to do puppies when they jump and lick at mom's face. Your hound did nothing wrong. It is rude dog behavior and the other dog's owner should realize this and not hold anything against your hound. In fact, maybe the other dog learned a lesson and will not jump in dogs faces from now on.

 

Your hound doesnt seem any more prone to snap than dogs that I have been around. Each instance he "snapped" seemed normal in the given circumstances. Would I worry about your hound snapping at a kid, not unless the kid is jumping on Zero, pulling his ears, and otherwise acting like a total annoyance.

 

Chad

 

Zero seeemed relaxed around the cat. He was looking at the cat / interested in it, but not fixated on it. His nose is always dripping. I know now though, no more cats for Zero.

 

Thanks for your advise :-)

[Batmom]

Pretty much what Chad said.

 

 

When my dogs meet kids, I mostly hedge my bets by gently holding dog's head against my leg and delivering ear/nose rubs (thus controlling the sharp end) while kid pets dog's neck/shoulder. My angel Zema liked kids but could spook at sudden moves; this way she got to get her "kid" fix without endangering anybody, ever. Our late whippet mostly was not fond of children so not an issue there. Our other dogs have been fine with kids while on their feet (the dogs); just have had to watch that they don't steal teething biscuits or overwhelm the little ones with nose bumps.

[Guest mcsheltie]

I agree with Chad, but I see #3 in a different light.

 

Zero was correcting Nash, but he shouldn't have had to. The owner is responsible for keeping his or her dog safe, especially while on a leash. Your quote - [Nash] goes overboard as far as saying "hello" to Zero, while Zero just stands there and "takes it". He shouldn't have to take it. When Nash acts like that is it your job to protect Zero. Request that Nash's owner back him away. Better yet, put Nash in a sit or down so he isn't getting agitated flopping around on the end of his leash. If the owner will not, you remove Zero from Nash's range. When I meet friends that let their dogs get hyper on lead I stand out of reach and put my dogs behind me while we talk.

 

As far as kids go, I would just take it show around them the first few times. If he shows no signs of fear or aggression I would think you were okay unless they started acting like Nash. Then he could snap at them.

Edited June 11, 2010 by mcsheltie

[Guest NJgrey]

What happened with the other dog seems natural to me. Of course we'd all love it if our dogs just stood there and took the jumping and licking etc. but it's completely natural for them not to. If he really wanted to hurt the other dog he could have, but it was his way of saying "get out of my face." It can be frightening when it happens and in the moment it can be embarrassing. Our girl backed up and growled at a Whippet that was getting too close for comfort. Luckily the other owner was understanding and realized her dog was being a pain, but right in the moment it's hard not to feel at fault somehow.

 

What it does mean, however, is that you may need to be a bit more cautious about the situations Zero is put in on walks - let other owners know that he doesn't like being jumped on so those situations can be avoided in the first place.

 

As for kids, it seems like he's a really good boy and pretty chill so I wouldn't worry too much about it. When out on a leash I would treat kids the same way I would a hyper dog - if they're in the dogs face, just keep walking. If they're calm and take direction well, they can pet. In the home, make it clear that the kids can't touch him while he's sleeping, while on his bed and especially don't put their face near his. My one niece, it's so hard for her not to snuggle with Ellie face to face but that's the way it has to be. It's gotten to the point where I've had to pick her up and physically move her away from the dog but it's for everyone's own good.

 

Good luck, and post some pics of your boy! I remember reading about Zero a number of months ago in a thread about leaving a grey home alone while you work. It was one of the threads that gave my fiancee and I some confidence to go ahead and adopt.

[greydad92]

Pretty much what Chad said.

 

 

When my dogs meet kids, I mostly hedge my bets by gently holding dog's head against my leg and delivering ear/nose rubs (thus controlling the sharp end) while kid pets dog's neck/shoulder. My angel Zema liked kids but could spook at sudden moves; this way she got to get her "kid" fix without endangering anybody, ever. Our late whippet mostly was not fond of children so not an issue there. Our other dogs have been fine with kids while on their feet (the dogs); just have had to watch that they don't steal teething biscuits or overwhelm the little ones with nose bumps.

great suggestion, thanks

Edited June 11, 2010 by aryon92

[Guest Bang_o_rama]

My theory is that if an animal with big teeth and strong jaws nips and does no harm, then it's not an attack but a statement. Whether doing this as opposed to NOT doing it indicates an enhanced possibility of a serious bite later on, I have no idea. But our kitteh, another well-armed animal, has been play-biting and soft-paw-batting us for years with nary a mark left. It's actually funny to get repeatedly boxed by her paws but never feel the claws inside.

 

Still, sometimes I look at Bang's long muzzle and big teeth and get a wee bit nervous, although we have had her for over 8 months and she has yet to show any aggression at all toward our cat, squirrels, small rambunctious children, small rambunctious dogs, strangers who quietly come up behind her and grab her neck(!)*, friends, tooth-brushes or having disgusting but tasty objects manually removed from between those teeth. But I can only too well imagine how quickly it could all go south, given how damned fast these pups are.

 

*THAT one gave me a scare, but all she did was jump like a coiled spring, stare at him for a second, and then lean her head in for petting. She is such a joy of a dog.

 

~D~

[YvetteVal]

My Gracie is great with kids but has no tolerance for ill mannered dogs when we go for walks. She will growl and snap if they jump on her or, god forbid, try to hump her. So would I!!! You've gotten great advice and should be fine.

[Guest fandogs]

It's always up to the adult dog to correct puppy behavior.

I agree will all the posters here.. Great advise.

[TheFullHouse]

I have to agree, these were not attacks, they were corrections. Next time you want Zero off the sofa, make sure he's awake first. I'd teach the "get down" command so you won't be in the position of touching him before knowing whether he's truly awake or not.

 

Jilly Bean, being so much shorter than the hounds tries to greet them by standing on her hind legs and wrapping her paws around their muzzles, I don't allow her to do that. I correct her every time and make her get down. She doesn't mean to be mean in any way but that's not the correct way to greet another dog. If one of mine snapped at her while she was doing this, I wouldn't scold my hound, Jilly Bean would get scolded.

 

I agree with Batmom when it comes to greeting children, stay close, make sure the kids know they are only allowed to pet, not play with ears or eyes or nose or anything like that and things should go smoothly.

[Guest KennelMom]

What Chad said.

 

Great article called 'he just wants to say hi" by Suzanne Clothier: http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/42/97/ ...there's even a greyhound in it!

 

Dogs, greyhounds included, are not tug toys, punching bags, ponies, trampolines, or other toys etc for puppies or kids.

[TheFullHouse]

Heather, I love the Do and Don't list in that article! If people would follow that simple list, so many problems would be solved or never happen at all.

[GeorgeofNE]

Nothing you described was the dog's fault, and nothing you described wasn't 100% normal. None of those circumstances are even vaguely like those that would arise with well-supervised children around your dog.

 

That's the key; well supervised.

 

I personally don't ever let tiny children (toddlers, babies) anywhere near my dog. I don't care how rock solid he is. It's not worth it to me (and I'm not one of those people who adores children either!). Children about 4 or older with a parent right next to them--he's fine! Loves 'em.

 

I have two cats, and George snaps at them when they bug him. If he wanted to hurt them, they'd already be dead. He's snapped at me when I have woken him; I consider this my fault, as I know he has sleep aggression, and sometimes I'm foolish. As far as the puppy--that's how adult dogs teach puppies how not to be a pain in the neck. The puppies owner should NOT allow him to behave that way.

Edited June 11, 2010 by GeorgeofNE

[Guest KennelMom]

Heather, I love the Do and Don't list in that article! If people would follow that simple list, so many problems would be solved or never happen at all.

 

I had to go back and read it b/c I didn't remember a do/don't list. Looks like she's updated the article since I last read it. that do/don't list is great!

 

I Suzanne Clothier. A common sense dog person if there ever was one. I had the good fortune to attend a small 2-day seminar she taught here.

[Guest greytgrandma]

all seems normal given the circumstances for each incident

 

for #3 I never allow other dogs to greet Hot Rod by jumping on him or getting in his face.Like mcshilti said, I feel its my job to protect Hot Rod from rude behavior from other dogs.Some people just dont see it as rude behavior I guess

The owner of that other dog is very irresponsible letting their dog mob Zero that way.

Im sure Hot Rod would do the same thing Zero did if another dog acted that way towards him.

[greysmom]

Heavens! I can only envy you that Zero has only snapped **THREE** times in the last 6 months!!!! Toni usually does that much before we get out of bed in the morning, and that's just one of my four greyhounds! It's not serious, though I never take her teeth for granted. It's just the way she plays - teeth first. She has excellent bite-inhibition and has never even given me a bruise when playing around. None of the incidents you describe seem inappropriate to me:

 

#1 incident - you already know he has sleep startling, so don't do that again!

 

#2 incident - CAT! Cats can irritate greys just by breathing, and some love nothing more than to antagonize any dog they come in contact with. If Zero had wanted to eviscerate the kitty he would have. The correction was not meant to hurt the cat and it didn't. It probably sounded worse that it actually was.

 

#3 incident - nothing is more irritating to an adult dog than an out-of-control puppy. This corrections to the puppy's behavior was completely appropriate in my opinion. Puppies need to learn not to jump on their elders and Zero didn't do anything wrong. The other owner needs to learn to not let his puppy jump on Zero. If the other owner won't restrain his pup then keep Zero out of reach. He should be able to count on you to keep him safe from obnoxious behavior.

 

And where are some new pictures of your handsome guy??? Hmmmmmmm???????