Manny Had A Seizure

[Guest zombrie]

Early in the morning we believe Manny had a seizure. When we came down, his pen was all messed up and completely soiled. He was barking a lot around 1:30 am, but we didn't think anything of it because he tends to bark a lot in the early hours of the morning. We don't know what time he had the seizure.

 

We have zero experience with seizures, so this is so new to us. This is his first seizure since he has been with us (we brought him home April 30th). His last seizure was at the vet before his surgery to repair his leg for the second time on April 29th. He had his leg repaired originally the 21st I believe, and he seized twice at the vet that day. He re-broke the leg at the kennel due to a seizure (we are assuming that's what happened) but we don't know what day.

 

He is going to the vet this morning for a bandage change because he soiled it and we want to make sure his leg is ok. He still seems agitated, crying, and is having excessive thirst and is excessively urinating (he has had 6 very long pees between 7 and 8:30 am). Is this normal behavior after having a seizure? Any advice?

 

ETA: he is NOT on any medications, the vet wants to see how frequent and severe the seizures are before prescribing him anything if he needs it

Edited May 17, 2010 by zombrie

[Guest Energy11]

Surely could have been a seizure, but I've not seen the excessive urination afterward. Every person/dog is different, though. The crying and aggitation could be from the seizure'd after-effects, if that is what he had.

 

I'd definitetly bring a urine sample along to be checked, anyway, as long as you are going to be there at the vets, and definitely tell them eveyrthing you told us.

 

Good Luck, and remember, there are a lot of medications out there to control seizures effectively. Sending lots of love and prayers, too!

[Guest zombrie]

Surely could have been a seizure, but I've not seen the excessive urination afterward. Every person/dog is different, though. The crying and aggitation could be from the seizure'd after-effects, if that is what he had.

 

I'd definitetly bring a urine sample along to be checked, anyway, as long as you are going to be there at the vets, and definitely tell them eveyrthing you told us.

 

Good Luck, and remember, there are a lot of medications out there to control seizures effectively. Sending lots of love and prayers, too!

 

Thanks for the response. He is at the vets office right now waiting for the vet to have time to take a look at him. We weighed him on Friday and he weighed 62 pounds, this morning he weighs 59 pounds. We are thinking it's purely water weight. He has only had one accident since he has been with us, and this morning he's had 4 accidents and been outside about 8 times. The technician said it isn't normal for excessive urination after a seizure, only during. I don't know what is going on with him yet, we will have to wait to see what the vet says.

[Guest Greytluv]

Manny

 

I hope he feels better. Keep us posted.

[sabrina]

Manny we hope your ok, take care

[Guest Energy11]

Keeping Manny in our prayers, and hoping for something simple!

 

 

[TheFullHouse]

It sounds like your boy has a history of seizures now. You might consider putting him on medication. I took two sets of baby crib bumper pads and lined Saint's crate so he wouldn't hurt himself during his seizures. The pacing and whining is normal after seizing. You can give a little all natural vanilla ice cream to bring his sugar levels back up since they will drop during a seizure. He paces and whines because he's trying to cool himself off. Their temperature will rise sharply during the seizure and they need to cool off afterwards. Saint would always want outside where it was cool. You can help by draping him in a cool damp towel.

 

Here is a site that will give you all the info you need on seizures and if I can help in any way, please let me know.Link

[Guest zombrie]

It sounds like your boy has a history of seizures now. You might consider putting him on medication. I took two sets of baby crib bumper pads and lined Saint's crate so he wouldn't hurt himself during his seizures. The pacing and whining is normal after seizing. You can give a little all natural vanilla ice cream to bring his sugar levels back up since they will drop during a seizure. He paces and whines because he's trying to cool himself off. Their temperature will rise sharply during the seizure and they need to cool off afterwards. Saint would always want outside where it was cool. You can help by draping him in a cool damp towel.

 

Here is a site that will give you all the info you need on seizures and if I can help in any way, please let me know.Link

 

Thank you so much for this information!! It is extremely helpful. I will definitely buy some ice cream for him and read that whole website so I can be completely prepared and what to expect.

 

Manny had another seizure at the vet about 20 minutes ago. They took a urine sample and they are doing a full panel blood test, we will get the results tomorrow. The vet didn't seem concerned about the excessive urinating, that was good to hear...I was worried there was something else going on with him. He is home now, but very unsteady, hot, and seems pretty restless.

Edited May 17, 2010 by zombrie

[Guest Energy11]

Poor Manny!

 

You might also want to ask the vet for some liquid Valium, which can be pre-loaded into a syringe (without the needle), and administered rectally during a prolonged seizure. Always good to have on hand.

 

We aren't sure whether Curfew gets seizures or mini strokes, but I have used it twice after his "episodes," to calm him. Works GREAT.

 

Good Luck!

[Guest zombrie]

Poor Manny!

 

You might also want to ask the vet for some liquid Valium, which can be pre-loaded into a syringe (without the needle), and administered rectally during a prolonged seizure. Always good to have on hand.

 

We aren't sure whether Curfew gets seizures or mini strokes, but I have used it twice after his "episodes," to calm him. Works GREAT.

 

Good Luck!

 

Yup, the vet sent us home with a syringe of liquid Valium, I feel more at ease that we have that now.

[TheFullHouse]

Good that you have valium on hand now. If he starts to "cluster" (having more than 1 or 2 seizures in a short amount of time, like 1 to 2 hours) you can use the valium to stop the cluster. If all tests are normal you are probably dealing with idopathic epilepsy. The vet can give you medication for it. The most popular one is Phenobarbital. The only drawback to this drug is that in some dogs it can cause liver damage but then some like my Saint who has been taking it since the age of 3 and he is now 9 years old, has no problem with it at all and his liver values are perfect. We also had to add Potassium Bromide to Saints medications because the pheno didn't stop his seizure to the degree that I was comfortable with. Be proactive with your vet, it makes things easier in the long run.

 

He may be whiny for quite a while and then will probably fall asleep. Saint usually fell asleep and slept hard for a few hours after having his seizures.

 

Wishing you good luck in finding out if there is a cause and getting Manny's seizures under control. I worked very long and hard with my vet and we got Saint's seizures under control and he's been seizure free (with meds) for 5 1/2 years now. I wish all seizure dogs could be like Saint!

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Sending for Manny

[Guest LindsaySF]

Sophie has seizures, so I understand what you're going through. (Her thread is in my signature). The website Jillysfullhouse linked is my favorite canine epilepsy site. You can also try this one, and join the EPIL-K9 email group for support.

 

You'll want to test his thyroid, do a panel for tick-borne diseases, infections, diabetes, etc. If all that comes back fine then he probably has idiopathic epilepsy. In my personal opinion, with this many seizures I would get him on medication ASAP. The vet will probably wait for the test results to come back first, but if they are ok I'd put him on phenobarbital.

 

Stress can bring on seizures, so that might be a factor with Manny. In Sophie's case she has separation anxiety, I try to avoid any stress associated with that. She also gets hungry during the day (and another theory is that low blood sugar can cause seizures) so she gets frequent snacks.

 

Sophie gets very thirsty and very hungry after a seizure. She will pace and cry until she gets all the food she wants (I use green beans, low-calorie to fill her up). Was Manny drinking a lot of water after the seizure? That could cause excessive urination. Sophie also needs to go outside often after a seizure. The post-ictal state varies in duration for every dog. Sophie's post-ictal state is usually about 2-3 hours. Some dogs suffer after effects for 24 hours or even several days. If he's hot and restless he's probably still in the post-ictal state. Try feeding him lots of snacks, and try to cool him down. I feed Sophie ice cubes and rinse her with the hose when she is too warm. She also likes to lay in the cool dirt.

 

ETA: Regarding cooling him, I would spray him down and let the water evaporate. My LGRA mentors have told me that draping them in a cool towel, using cool coats, etc, can actually hold the heat in.

Sophie's neurologist (at MA Vet Referral Hospital) defines a "cluster" as more than one seizure in a 24 hour period. If she has a second seizure, even if it's 23 hours later, I'm to give rectal valium and extra phenobarbital to head off any more. I also have to give the valium for any seizure lasting longer than 4 minutes. (She hasn't had a grand mal last that long, but she has had focal seizures lasting 15 minutes or more that needed valium to stop).

 

Sophie's neurologist also recommends storing the liquid valium in a glass vial. She said it degrades too quickly and loses its effectiveness if stored in plastic. (Many vets give you the valium pre-loaded into plastic syringes, she disagrees with this practice). Also keep it away from heat and out of direct sunlight.

 

Best of luck. Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Edited May 17, 2010 by LindsaySF

[brandimom]

Unfortunately I have no advice but I am sending prayers for Manny and u and the family.

[Guest zombrie]

Sophie has seizures, so I understand what you're going through. (Her thread is in my signature). The website Jillysfullhouse linked is my favorite canine epilepsy site. You can also try this one, and join the EPIL-K9 email group for support.

 

You'll want to test his thyroid, do a panel for tick-borne diseases, infections, diabetes, etc. If all that comes back fine then he probably has idiopathic epilepsy. In my personal opinion, with this many seizures I would get him on medication ASAP. The vet will probably wait for the test results to come back first, but if they are ok I'd put him on phenobarbital.

 

Stress can bring on seizures, so that might be a factor with Manny. In Sophie's case she has separation anxiety, I try to avoid any stress associated with that. She also gets hungry during the day (and another theory is that low blood sugar can cause seizures) so she gets frequent snacks.

 

Sophie gets very thirsty and very hungry after a seizure. She will pace and cry until she gets all the food she wants (I use green beans, low-calorie to fill her up). Was Manny drinking a lot of water after the seizure? That could cause excessive urination. Sophie also needs to go outside often after a seizure. The post-ictal state varies in duration for every dog. Sophie's post-ictal state is usually about 2-3 hours. Some dogs suffer after effects for 24 hours or even several days. If he's hot and restless he's probably still in the post-ictal state. Try feeding him lots of snacks, and try to cool him down. I feed Sophie ice cubes and rinse her with the hose when she is too warm. She also likes to lay in the cool dirt.

 

ETA: Regarding cooling him, I would spray him down and let the water evaporate. My LGRA mentors have told me that draping them in a cool towel, using cool coats, etc, can actually hold the heat in.

Sophie's neurologist (at MA Vet Referral Hospital) defines a "cluster" as more than one seizure in a 24 hour period. If she has a second seizure, even if it's 23 hours later, I'm to give rectal valium and extra phenobarbital to head off any more. I also have to give the valium for any seizure lasting longer than 4 minutes. (She hasn't had a grand mal last that long, but she has had focal seizures lasting 15 minutes or more that needed valium to stop).

 

Sophie's neurologist also recommends storing the liquid valium in a glass vial. She said it degrades too quickly and loses its effectiveness if stored in plastic. (Many vets give you the valium pre-loaded into plastic syringes, she disagrees with this practice). Also keep it away from heat and out of direct sunlight.

 

Best of luck. Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

Thank you so much for all this information! It's so helpful to hear from people with personal experience.

I went to work this afternoon and I got a phone call from my mom telling me he had two more seizures. So he has had 4 seizures today. My mom gave him the liquid valium and it really knocked him out. What should we expect from the Valium? He has been pretty passed out and as I am typing this he tried to get up and he just couldn't. And before I got home my mom told me he was howling and then attacked a blanket (and he really attacked it, so he's muzzled now for our safety). We called the vet but there was no answer..not even an answering machine picked up

is this behavior from the Valium or from the seizures?

 

ETA: The two seizures we have witnessed, he was just laying down. There was no stress factor so we don't know what is triggering them either.

Edited May 18, 2010 by zombrie

[Trihounds]

Sorry I have no advice, Brie. Just wanted to offer you some words of encouragement and support. Hope you get to the bottom of this and a good treatment plan ensues. We'll be thinking about you guys.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Thank you so much for all this information! It's so helpful to hear from people with personal experience.

I went to work this afternoon and I got a phone call from my mom telling me he had two more seizures. So he has had 4 seizures today. My mom gave him the liquid valium and it really knocked him out. What should we expect from the Valium? He has been pretty passed out and as I am typing this he tried to get up and he just couldn't. And before I got home my mom told me he was howling and then attacked a blanket (and he really attacked it, so he's muzzled now for our safety). We called the vet but there was no answer..not even an answering machine picked up

is this behavior from the Valium or from the seizures?

 

ETA: The two seizures we have witnessed, he was just laying down. There was no stress factor so we don't know what is triggering them either.

The valium will make them pretty loopy. Sophie gets "drunk", she tries to walk around but she stumbles and her legs go out from under her. I end up lifting her a lot (a harness helps). Sophie recovers from the valium quickly pretty though, it doesn't knock her out or make her all that sleepy (sometimes I wish it would ). Some dogs do get knocked out and will go to sleep, Sophie fights it.

 

Some of his behavior could be from the seizures also. A seizure takes a lot out of them, they will be pretty tired and weak afterwards, even without valium on board. Some dogs have a long post-ictal state that includes stumbling, excessive vocalization, confusion, etc.

 

Was he growling and barking at the blanket? Or just chewing on it aggressively and yanking on it? If it was the latter, I would think he is hungry, it's a side effect of the seizures. Sophie tries to eat anything in sight after a seizure (including furniture, my fingers, etc ). A friend's greyhound that has seizures starts "attacking" his bed trying to chew chunks off, he will actually eat pieces if she doesn't stop him.

 

ETA: Valium can also cause excitability and in rare cases aggression.

 

Sometimes there is no real trigger for the seizures. The one he had at the vet though, and possibly the one when he was downstairs at night?, those ones I was thinking could be stress-related. Almost all of Sophie's seizures occur when she is sleeping, sounds similar for Manny. And with him in a cluster right now, it won't take much for another one to start. Do you have more liquid valium on hand in case he has another seizure?

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

Edited May 18, 2010 by LindsaySF

[Guest Energy11]

..."is this behavior from the Valium or from the seizures?..."

 

 

This is most likely from BOTH the seizures and the Valium. (the lethargy and tiredness). I haven't ever heard of the "attacking" thing.

 

A seizure is a short circuit of sorts in the brain's "wiring,"... the brain's electrical conduction system is going haywire/short circuiting hence, all the jerky movements, trembling, etc. It takes A LOT out of a dog or a human! The post-itcal phase (after the seizure), lasts a long time, and the animal or person is very worn out.

 

The Valium helps stop or slow all the "short circuits" misfiring in the brain during a seizure. It literally helps calm the brain down. BUT, Valium is a tranqulizer and muscle relaxer, as well. It is a Central Nervous System depressant, so therefore, the dog or human will be more lethargic and tired after taking it. Given rectally, it works FAST, too.

 

The combination of both of these, and you do have a VERY pooped out dog, with little energy, for sure.

 

Now, if these seizures continue to occur this frequently, I would NOT hesitate to go to the emergency vet. Please keep us posted, and good Luck.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Energy11

[Guest zombrie]

I just got home form the E-vet. Manny had two more seizures, the last one being extremely violent, he was screaming and it was a minute long. When we brought him to the E-vet, they took him out back and they told us he had another seizure but it only lasted 20 seconds because they gave him Valium. That brings the count to 7 known seizures total within 24 hours, each one getting worse and closer together. When we get the results from his blood/urine test, we will discuss medication. They will release him once he has been seizure free for 24 hours.

 

My heart breaks for the poor baby, he has had a rough day. When we carried him into the car and into the E-vet, his body was like jello, he didn't move a muscle and he wasn't breathing very well.

 

Thank you all so much for your support, you are wonderful people.

[Guest Samantha]

Thinking of Manny.

 

Hope the poor boy is feeling better soon xx

[sweetdogs]

I have nothing useful to offer except good thoughts & best wishes for you & Manny.

[Guest Energy11]

OMG! Good call getting him to the Evet. I hope they can find something in the blood that can account for all these seizures, and get them under control.

 

Yes, good idea to be at the vets for 24 hours. THEY can monitor him and control these horrible things!

 

Sending love and prayers your way!

[TheFullHouse]

Poor baby, hopefully they will get him started on some anti seizure meds quickly. He definitely needs some relief.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Poor Manny, clustering sucks. Sophie had a cluster of seizures in December when she was at her MA foster home (7-8 seizures in 24 hours). She was hospitalized for several days on a valium drip and also underwent extensive testing (MRI, spinal tap, bloodwork, etc). Tests were all negative, so the neurologist increased both of her medications and sent her home with rectal valium (the first vet refused to give us any ). I hope Manny can be put on meds soon and he starts to feel better.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

[Guest happygrey]

So sorry to hear this terrible news! My fingers are crossed that the vet will be able to figure out what is going on and soon.