Biting Husband

[Guest lyndajgil]

this is the husband. I was bitten on the forearm pretty badly to the point that I needed to go to the emergency room!!!! During a walk ross found some poop covered in leaves and decided to make himself a sandwich. I told him to drop it..i got the lip,growls and baring of the teeth. finally he was almost done and I managed to knock the last pc out of his mouth. he jumped up and savagely bit me...deep puncture wounds. I was lucky it waS NOT MY FACE OR NECK.....I now fear him and am very concerned for my children. davidg

[JAJ2010]

Wait is this the same dog that was having issues before with food in the street? If so have you talked to your adoption group? Perhaps they can recommend a trainer or even help out with some hands on training themselves? Also possibly have his T4 checked as a 'just in case' since that would be such an easy fix. Meanwhile if your nervous, for the immediate future please just use the muzzle! It won't hurt him, and it will help give the humans confidence. Rainy used to wear hers all day while we were at work and it never hurt her one bit.

[Batmom]

Do you have an adoption group that can be of help? It would be worthwhile to consult with a behaviorist, if they can recommend one to you.

 

How long have you had Ross? Has he done this before? Many dogs are reluctant to give up food once they've got it, which is how he saw the poop. Until you can consult with your group or a professional onsite, there are a couple of useful exercises that can help with this:

 

-1- Hand feeding, in which you feed the dog his meals from your hands, one kibble at a time. This helps get him used to you in conjunction with food and helps to make a good bond between you.

 

-2- "Drop it!" training. I recommend getting a pocketful of very special treats -- something you won't use for any other training exercise. Hot dog slices, teensy cubes of cheddar cheese, etc. Then I get an object that I know the dog doesn't want -- say, a toy he doesn't care for or an old washcloth. I offer it to the dog and if he won't take it, I set it down right in front of him (or between his forelegs if he's lying down). "Ross, drop it!" <split second later> Pick up the object, "Good boy!" and give treat. Repeat repeat repeat repeat, 7-8 repetitions at least once a day, until every time you tell him to drop it, he looks at you happily and expectantly. Repeat for a couple days after you get perfection.

 

Now we're ready to move on to a better object -- this time, maybe one that he kinda likes, enough to take it in his mouth for a sec, but not one that he really loves. Perhaps a toy that he's played with a bit, and now he's panting and tired and not interested in the toy anymore. Same procedure, same repetition, keep working day by day until you get perfection and then practice being perfect for a couple days.

 

Then move on to things that he's keener on (ignoring food for now -- focus just on other objects).

 

Perfect there? Now let's put him on leash -- in the house or in your yard -- and put a bowl with a kibble in it on the floor. You're not going to let him pick up the kibble, you're going to walk back and forth past the kibble and each time he looks at it, give your drop it/leave it command and reward him for continuing to walk and attending to you.

 

Same process as before, gradually upping the ante until you can pass, say, a peanutbutter sandwich.

 

 

If this all sounds scary, put his basket muzzle on for these exercises. Hot dog slivers or slivers of fake bacon strips are easy to poke through the holes so he can grab his reward.

 

 

I'm sorry you were hurt and hope your body and spirits heal.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I am not trying to be difficult by asking questions, but you are leaving out the entire story. You went from him having the poop, to growling, to an attack. Now skipping to the end, you said you managed to "knock it out" of his mouth. Forgive me but it sounds as if you may have smacked him in the mouth, is this correct? If not, really examine how you "knocked" the item out of his mouth, maybe look at it from his aspect: He has something in his mouth, and suddenly you smack him in the face. Sounds to me that he may have been defending himself, and not "savagely" attacking you. I know you probably dont see it this way. Please dont say, "I have been around dogs all my life and none of them ever acted this way", greyhounds are different than any dog that has been raised in a "human" environment, this dog has not been raised as a pet in a human environment, so his reactions will not be the typical dog reaction. How long have you had this hound?

 

Chad

[Guest lyndajgil]

My husband took the side of his foot and just scraped it off the side of his mouth while he had the rest in his mouth. He is generally a very warm hound. Loves the kids at the bus stop, He has some fear issues I have seen with my daughters little friend. I actually used Bitter Apple on him when he showed his teeth to her and it worked. I think she scares him for some reason. Ross has been a little uncomfotable with dogs as well..except for another Grey that lives on my street. My husband is very weary of him now which makes me and my girls very unhappy.We have had him 10 months.

Edited April 17, 2010 by lyndajgil

[jenn8]

He probably thought your husband was kicking him. I think you should contact your adoption group and let them know what is going on with Ross, past and present. If your husband fears him now, he may not be the best fit in your home. These things happen sometimes.

 

Jenn

[Guest lyndajgil]

He probably thought your husband was kicking him. I think you should contact your adoption group and let them know what is going on with Ross, past and present. If your husband fears him now, he may not be the best fit in your home. These things happen sometimes.

 

Jenn

 

I would never give him back!! That is NOT an option. I have worked with him with training and he is learning and doing a good job. My husband just has to get over this episode to help in the training. My daughters, 13 1/2 and 10 1/2 have been wonderful with him as well and vice versa.

[jenn8]

That is great. I do think your adoption group can help you work things out though.

 

Jenn

[Guest sriddle13]

My husband took the side of his foot and just scraped it off the side of his mouth while he had the rest in his mouth. He is generally a very warm hound. Loves the kids at the bus stop, He has some fear issues I have seen with my daughters little friend. I actually used Bitter Apple on him when he showed his teeth to her and it worked. I think she scares him for some reason. Ross has been a little uncomfotable with dogs as well..except for another Grey that lives on my street. My husband is very weary of him now which makes me and my girls very unhappy.We have had him 10 months.

Be very careful about suppressing signs like growls and lift lips. These are the signs that you have that the dog is nervous/scared and needs that person to back off now. Dogs that are made not to growl etc may stop doing that but may seem to bite later without provocation. They give us clues in a step by step fashion that they are upset and if you don't heed them they escalate. A dog that has been taught to not give those lesser cues, may go right to a bite. It sounds like you need to have a behaviorist work on you one on one to get to the underlying issue of what is causing his fear.

[Guest PhillyPups]

If I was a dog that feared that someone was going to take away something that I had, especially something as wonderful as say, old poop and that person raised their foot towards me, I think I would bite them too.

I am just looking at it from Ross' eyes.

 

Is it possible for your husband and Ross enroll in obedience class together? That would give them alone bonding time and they probably would both learn from it.

 

There are some behaviors in dog that are "unacceptable" to them as there are some behaviors in human that are unacceptable to us.

 

You also said there were issues with one of your children's friends. Dogs do not just not like someone because their hair looks funny, or they dress funny. There is something going on there that Ross senses. I would either not have that friend over, or have Ross away from the child when the child is over, such as babygated in another area of the house. I find my dogs are an excellent judge of character. I would rather take precautions if you are dead set on keeping Ross than having someone's child bitten in my home.

 

Are you working with your adoption group with these issues??

Edited April 17, 2010 by PhillyPups

[Guest kydie]

Hope you are O.K., this is resource guarding, yes, your pup viewed this as "food", first you need to work with him, at meal time, I'm sure you know how to do this, and with the "drop it or leave it" command,, I know this is hard with a poop issue, but if you want something and the pup won't "leave it" step on it and hold it down, even if he growls, be strong, don't back away, don't speak, just stand strong, I try to stay out of this forum, as much as possible, as I have my own ideas on behavior issues, remember, you are the "boss" don't be afraid, or the pup knows it

Good Luck

Edited April 17, 2010 by kydie

[GeorgeofNE]

He probably thought your husband was kicking him. I think you should contact your adoption group and let them know what is going on with Ross, past and present. If your husband fears him now, he may not be the best fit in your home. These things happen sometimes.

 

Jenn

 

I would never give him back!! That is NOT an option. I have worked with him with training and he is learning and doing a good job. My husband just has to get over this episode to help in the training. My daughters, 13 1/2 and 10 1/2 have been wonderful with him as well and vice versa.

 

I'm sorry, but if your husband is afraid of the dog, you're not doing the dog any favors keeping him.

 

I may be one of the few folks here who believe that there are dogs and homes that just aren't right for each other.

 

Squirting bitter apple in the dogs mouth? Knocking poop out of his mouth? These aren't teaching the dog anything positive--they're teaching him that you're violent people that he better be on his guard around.

 

I know that sounds harsh; I apologize. But you have kids, and they might be bigger kids, but what happens when the dog bites one of them???

[TheFullHouse]

If I remember right, you started back in December posting that your boy bites when he's playing and hurts you, that progressed into aggression with the cable guy and your daughters friend and other dogs and now we have a bite when trying to take something he considers high value. This just seems to be getting worse and worse until at some point he's going to end up biting one of your children. I suggest you get him into some training and soon. What ever you've tried isn't working and I think it's probably time to bring in some professionals. Your boy is definitely going to pick up your husbands fear of him and that's only going to make things worse. I'd get the advise of a behaviorist and then get him into some sort of training class so he learns to listen to your commands, especially the "drop it" command so as not to have another fight over what he considers to be a "high value" treat.

[silverfish]

 

 

I'm sorry, but if your husband is afraid of the dog, you're not doing the dog any favors keeping him.

 

I may be one of the few folks here who believe that there are dogs and homes that just aren't right for each other.

 

Squirting bitter apple in the dogs mouth? Knocking poop out of his mouth? These aren't teaching the dog anything positive--they're teaching him that you're violent people that he better be on his guard around.

 

I know that sounds harsh; I apologize. But you have kids, and they might be bigger kids, but what happens when the dog bites one of them???

 

I've just read through this topic and I have to say I agree with GeorgeofNE on this one. It seems that things are escalating rapidly here, if the other posters in this thread are correct and there have been these previous incidents with food, with cable guys, with play biting etc.

 

It sounds to me that this dog is now at the stage where he is nervous and extremely defensive and will need expert handling. And I'm sorry, but if you believe knocking poop out of his mouth with your foot and squirting bitter apple at him are good ideas, then IMHO, you are not the right people to handle him. If you are truly determined to make this work, you need to contact your adoption group for help and advice, and find a good behaviourist NOW - one who knows sighthounds, and won't be trying the outdated 'Alpha' stuff. No jerking on the collar, no choke chains, no punishment, definitely no alpha rolls - all these will make him worse.

 

I'm sorry if I come across as judgemental or harsh, I truly don't mean to be. I just think that you and your dog is very soon going to be in a bad situation. If he doesn't turn truly vicious, there is a real possibility that he may shut down and turn into a quivering wreck.

 

I'm also very sorry that you were hurt. It's no fun to have a dog that you're afraid of. Unfortunately, dogs can so easily tell when someone is scared of them and they tend not to respond well. The most easy-going of them will get confused and unhappy, the more assertive will try to take control.

 

If you want to learn to understand what's going on in his head, you'll need to bone up on dog psychology and normal social signals, which are so different from ours. Try Stanley Coren's How To Speak Dog, or Patricia McConnell's The Other End of the Leash. Both are very readable and will help you enormously if you want to relate better to any dog.

 

Of course, I'm only advising from what I've read here, and there may well be more to the story.

[Guest Drumhellergrey]

He probably thought your husband was kicking him. I think you should contact your adoption group and let them know what is going on with Ross, past and present. If your husband fears him now, he may not be the best fit in your home. These things happen sometimes.

 

Jenn

 

I would never give him back!! That is NOT an option. I have worked with him with training and he is learning and doing a good job. My husband just has to get over this episode to help in the training. My daughters, 13 1/2 and 10 1/2 have been wonderful with him as well and vice versa.

 

I'm sorry, but if your husband is afraid of the dog, you're not doing the dog any favors keeping him.

 

I may be one of the few folks here who believe that there are dogs and homes that just aren't right for each other.

 

Squirting bitter apple in the dogs mouth? Knocking poop out of his mouth? These aren't teaching the dog anything positive--they're teaching him that you're violent people that he better be on his guard around.

 

I know that sounds harsh; I apologize. But you have kids, and they might be bigger kids, but what happens when the dog bites one of them???

I second this. If the dog bites again,it is biting out of fear. It is not fair to the dog to be kept with someone who is fearful of it.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Drumhellergrey

[Guest Swifthounds]

My husband took the side of his foot and just scraped it off the side of his mouth while he had the rest in his mouth. He is generally a very warm hound.

 

If I don't trust you, I have some food, and your husband puts his foot on my face, I'd bite him too - and I'm not a dog. I'm not trying to place blame, but dogs speak dog. They communicate, vocally and through body language, in dog language. While they can learn to live in a human world, part of that is also learning to communicate with them in a way they understand.

 

I actually used Bitter Apple on him when he showed his teeth to her and it worked.

 

It worked? It worked to what...stop the showing of teeth? When you punish a dog for showing teeth or growling, you extinguish that behavior (growling or showing teeth) - the "speed bump" and "warning" that dog's exhibit prior to biting.

 

Ross has been a little uncomfotable with dogs as well..except for another Grey that lives on my street. My husband is very weary of him now which makes me and my girls very unhappy.We have had him 10 months.

 

If the dog is fearful, putting a foot on his face and spraying him with bitter apple will only make him more fearful, not less. All he will learn from this is that humans aren't to be trusted.

 

As an aside, if this is the same dog mentioned in the posts about biting you while playing and the cable guy issue, you need to recognize that his behavior is escalating and that your approach is not working. Had you realized that prior to the bite and reached out here to experienced dog folks, he might not have bit your husband. A bite requiring an ER visit is documented and reported to AC or law enforcement - that's a lot of baggage with which to saddle a dog.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I agree with Swifthounds. Please contact your adoption group, they should be able to help and/or put you in touch with a Grey-savvy trainer or behaviorist. Unless you fix what's wrong, this situation is only going to get worse. I admire your dedication to keep him and work on things, but I think at this point you need some hands-on help, more help than this forum can give you. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest Drumhellergrey]

I agree with Swifthounds. Please contact your adoption group, they should be able to help and/or put you in touch with a Grey-savvy trainer or behaviorist. Unless you fix what's wrong, this situation is only going to get worse. I admire your dedication to keep him and work on things, but I think at this point you need some hands-on help, more help than this forum can give you. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Yes. Very good advice. Afterall, you have to do what is best for both the dog, and your family.

[Tallgreydogmom]

What is Ross's racing name? I think I know this greyhound.

[Guest lyndajgil]

I am happy to report that Ross starts his first training class on Tuesday! He has been such a good boy these past couple of days and I am very excited to start these classes. He is generally a good boy that is still a little rough around the edges. Hopefully these classes will smooth them out! We love our boy!!! His racing name was Hallo Ross B.

[Guest KennelMom]

Hubby uses a foot to knock poop out of a dogs mouth and the dog bites him on the arm. Sorry....something doesn't sound quite right with that story. Maybe once I can understand what ACTUALLY happened, I can offer advice. Until then, I would recommend a little NILIF and learn how to trade up/trade out..

Edited April 18, 2010 by KennelMom

[Guest scfilby]

Hubby uses a foot to knock poop out of a dogs mouth and the dog bites him on the arm. Sorry....something doesn't sound quite right with that story. Maybe once I can understand what ACTUALLY happened, I can offer advice. Until then, I would recommend a little NILIF and learn how to trade up/trade out..

 

This is a serious topic, sorry and I agree with Heather, but I am picturing myself trading up for poop...

[Tallgreydogmom]

Yes, Ross is a relative of my Denise (Kiowa Raise TM). Denise was a brood mama passing thru our house and never left. Her personality is just wonderful. Another reason she stayed was she was half-sister to our boy Dennis (Dennisthemenace). Dennis also had a wonderful personality. His dad was P's Raising Cain.

 

Ross must be a wonderful boy with his pedigree. Thank you so much for working with him.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Is your husband going to training class also? I have been trying to think of any situation where I would have to raise my foot to any of my hounds for any reason and I can think of none.

 

I truly hope that it is not too late for Ross to overcome his escalated behaviors. I also hope that you realize that training is not only to train Ross but to train you all too it is like therapy of a sort, all (including your husband) need to be willing participants or it most likely will not work.

 

I do not see this question being answered, so I will ask again. Are you working with your adoption group? I personally feel your adoption group is a valuable asset for Ross. I also feel they should be included in the whole process before an international message board.

Edited April 18, 2010 by PhillyPups

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

I second (or third or fourth or more) talking to your adoption group in addition to posting on this board. If for some reason you are uncomfortable with your adoption coordinator or in talking to others in that group, either tough it out or contact another in your area as a last resort. Many states have two or more rescues, it's better than nothing. Not only is the adoption group a source of expertise and knowledge, they can see what's happening in person. If this is a case that requires re-homing, then you've laid the groundwork and they can prepare for it in advance with a foster, etc.

 

Please let us know what happens, we worry. We worry about both the dog and your family.