For Ibd Dog Diagnosed By Surgery Or Scope Only

[RobinM]

Are there any IBD dogs who were diagnosed via open exploratory surgery or scope eating a RAW diet?

 

IF so, what does the diet consist of?

 

What meds is your dog on? What meds were your dog on? for how long?

 

I would love to do the switch however while some people do feed raw diets successfully, becasue IBD dogs are not "normal" dogs with their gi tracts and some IBD dogs may not be able to tolerate the low levels of bacteria etc that may be present in some raw foods. Particularly if a dog has SIBO or a more generalized gi bacterial infection (or a past history of such infections), a number of specialists recommend that raw feeding be avoided. It may also be harder for some IBD dogs to digest cartilage and bones.

Edited March 3, 2010 by RobinM

[Guest mcsheltie]

Scope. He couldn't eat chicken or beef kibble and no plants of any kind. Veggie or grain. He was on meds Pred and AB for months and he was loosing weight like melting snow. He had severe intestinal cramping. I was afraid we were going to loose him.

 

I started him out on a novel protein, Venison. And his stools firmed up in a week! I stopped the AB and weaned him off the Pred. Venison went out of season so I tried goat, no problem, so tried pork. Again no problem. He is still on a raw diet and eats chicken and beef now too. But if you give it to him cooked or in kibble watch out. Two days and he is back to liquid poo. Still can not tolerate any grain.

 

My cat was the same story. But I feed her only turkey.

Edited March 3, 2010 by mcsheltie

[RobinM]

I could NEVER give Beau cooked chicken or any cooked protein except Tilapia. If I did, he would flare and he almost died last year until we got this under control. My boy was down to 52.4 pounds. It was a nightmare.

 

The ONLY kibble he can eat is the hypoallergenic z/d and wet of the same.

 

I am thinking, just thinking about changing him to raw. I think I need to speak to the board certified nutrionalist at UPENN for some guidance first.

Edited March 3, 2010 by RobinM

[Guest Swifthounds]

Particularly if a dog has SIBO or a more generalized gi bacterial infection (or a past history of such infections), a number of specialists recommend that raw feeding be avoided. It may also be harder for some IBD dogs to digest cartilage and bones.

 

Most specialists, and most vets in fact, recommend avoiding rawfeeding for just those reasons, so whether it's cause for concern with Beau's particular diagnosis or not, I wouldn't expect positive reaction from a specialist - unless that specialist has had some positive experience with raw.

 

You might want to check out the Yahoo rawfeeding or rawchat (a sister list dealing with issues other than strictly how to feed raw) list. There are thousands of rawfeeders there feeding many thousands of dogs. There are group members who raw feed their IBD dogs raw. I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experiences.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Swifthounds

[ahicks51]

I would love to do the switch however while some people do feed raw diets successfully, becasue IBD dogs are not "normal" dogs with their gi tracts and some IBD dogs may not be able to tolerate the low levels of bacteria etc that may be present in some raw foods. Particularly if a dog has SIBO or a more generalized gi bacterial infection (or a past history of such infections), a number of specialists recommend that raw feeding be avoided. It may also be harder for some IBD dogs to digest cartilage and bones.

 

The primary benefits from feeding raw- particularly in an IBD dog- would come from the feeding of material that has no grain, and is low in carbohydrates. In this context, the feeding of cooked food (composed of meat with calcium added later- eggshell, etc.) would work just as well as the feeding of raw food.

 

The other argument would be- what the heck kind of bacterial growth are you getting in the gut when you feed all that starch from grains, anyway? The one persistent objection with greys is that they fart, and it's the kind that removes wallpaper. Flatus comes from bacterial fermentation. If one's own children smelled like that all the time, you'd figure you weren't feeding them right, so there's no reason to believe it's any better in the dog. Take out the starches and grains, and the gas goes away.

 

Most of the non-water volume of feces is bacterial anyway; poop is mostly bacteria. The production of bacteria is an effect from feeding large amounts of vegetable matter, which is perfectly satisfactory in ruminants that have the requisite number of stomachs, as well as specialty flora that have evolved to break down large quantities of vegetable matter. In primates, it's the same deal: special adaptations to manage large amounts of vegetable matter. This is why gorillas look like John Goodman:

 

 

Gorillas are vegetarians, which is why they have such a large belly. John Goodman has no such excuse.

 

This is probably why disorders like diverticulosis were unknown until the early 20th century: too much fiber, too many bacteria, stretching out the intestines until they herniate and form diverticula.

 

Certainly the *type* of bacteria is of concern as well, but- heck. Must be a few times a year, ProMED digest has a story about someone catching salmonella from bagged kibble.

[dbullwinkel]

Hi Robin..when Flex was having issues, I asked about raw feeding. I believe it was not recommended due to his immune issues..can't remember exactly why though. I guess consult with nutritionist would be the way to go. hope all is well.

[Guest barkdogs]

Ruminants have one stomach. It's multi chambered, but it is considered as one. Some ruminants have three chambers (kangaroos) but cows, goats, sheep, deer etc. have 4 chambers.

[greyhoundgang]

Found holistic vet care to really help with IBD dogs. They are also up on nutritional alternatives.

Slippery Elm made into a paste/gel is a staple in my home for diarrhea issues before it develops into IBD.

 

Greyhound Gang - Medical - Diarrhea

Greyhound Gang - Medical - Food

[Guest Swifthounds]

The primary benefits from feeding raw- particularly in an IBD dog- would come from the feeding of material that has no grain, and is low in carbohydrates. In this context, the feeding of cooked food (composed of meat with calcium added later- eggshell, etc.) would work just as well as the feeding of raw food.

 

I don't know, given my own experiences, whether I'd agree that cooked food would work just as well, though it might. A cooked diet of meat and organ with the proper supplements to substitute for bone might work just as well for Beau if it were comprised of protein sources to which he's not already been reactive. If I recall at one point, he was down to just the cooked tilapia or some other white fish as the only protein he could handle. Don't know whether that has changed.

 

I'll admit, when raw feeders kept espousing that because a dog had a reaction to cooked protein didn't necessarily mean the dog would experience trouble with the same protein in raw form, I was very, very skeptical. That does, however, seem to be the experience most people have. My own dogs eat foods raw that would have had them in GI distress if I fed it in kibble form or as a cooked add in.

 

A lovely lady who was at her wits end when I met her now feeds her lab a raw diet composed mainly of chicken, with some other meats for variety. When I met her, she was trying raw after having tried 27 kibbles and 4 prescription diets, several homemade cooked recipes, and 4 rounds of allergy testing, and 3 different specialists. Her dog had digestive issues, skin issues, ear infections - just about every "reaction" known to dogdom. Cooked chicken seemed to cause every poart of his body to react. She was miserable. The dog was miserable and on pred and antibiotics almost constantly. There were some rough patches in the beginning, and the dog isn't totally 100% normal, but he's much better in recent pictures.

 

I might not work for Beau, and I can understand given what Robin went through with him up until his diagnosis (and after as well), being hesitant to try something different and risk having a setback.

 

Certainly the *type* of bacteria is of concern as well, but- heck. Must be a few times a year, ProMED digest has a story about someone catching salmonella from bagged kibble.

 

We see those stories crop up several times a year (at least I have). Someone did a comparison of a few kibbles and raw store bought meat and some of the kibbles were much higher in salmonella and/or e coli. I wish could find the link. It's not like kibble factories are clean, pristine places and they don't use all USDA inspected human grade food either. Then again, it's not as if salmonella and e coli aren't all over our environments.

[GreyPoopon]

I was going to stay out of this because I don't feed raw, but FWIW:

 

Minnie, diagnosed via scoping > 8 yrs ago, is fed kibble. Once a week, everybody gets some sort of a chew: dehydrated this or that, frozen raw whatever. As long as I give her something to which she is not allergic (according to the blood tests) and is not too fatty, she's fine. She can, for example, enjoy a chunk of lamb flank or a beef rib. Perhaps she could tolerate one chew of something to which she is sensitive, but I wouldn't risk it.

 

ETA: At the moment, she isn't on any meds. If I need to give her Metacam, I use Misoprostal; if her stool is soft, Tylocine (Tylan). Fortunately, she hasn't needed pred for a long time. Fingers crossed that she remains as stable as she's been.

Edited March 3, 2010 by GreyPoopon

[RobinM]

I too can't feed the raw. I got the explaination that I was looking for, from my vet which is pretty much what I thought. I needed to be reminded.

Here was the reminder I got!

 

"Under normal circumstances, I have no problem with raw provided the

food is obtained from a reliable source. However, all raw food,

despite how fresh, has some bacterial contamination. Most normal

dogs can handle this just fine, however an immunosuppressed dog is

another story. Beau could get sick from even trace amounts of

contaminants. If he can eventually be weaned from imuran, it can be

considered again in the future, however If he's doing ok I wouldn't

play around with his food just yet.