Probable Bone Cancer - What Are My Next Steps?

[Guest RenaeT]

Hi everyone,

 

This is so greyt to have help out there like this! We have a 9 year old female grey who has been limping & when the vet took xrays this weekend, he showed me very subtle dark areas on her right shoulder area & he is suspecting bone cancer. But they were very very slight. His suggestion for next step is a bone biopsy to be sure & to be sure what cancer we are dealing with. She has no palpable mass yet & is eating well & still acting the same so far. So, I am hopeful it is in early stage. Will that help her prognosis at all? Any suggestions as to our next steps? We were thinking we should do the biopsy because otherwise we don't know 100% for sure what it is. Then, if it is osteosarcoma - actually taking her to OSU for at least a consult - or, if that is going to be a lot of trips back & forth to OSU, we may not be able to do that as both me & my husband work full-time & could take a day or two off, but not more than that. I know this is a personal decision for everyone but any suggestions and/or experiences others have had would be appreciated as I don't know much about this disease. How long is their recovery if they do amputation & chemo? Would she need care 24/7 for a long time (as we both work & would have to work that out some other way). Also, if the diagnosis is cancer, we were going to check out some other local vets that may be able to treat her other than going to OSU for it - what do you think of that idea? The other thing that has come to mind is how well she'll take to the amputation & chemo? When she stands for a long period of time, her back legs start shaking. Will that affect her only having 3 legs? Thanks everyone for your input! We are devastated to say the least - Of course we know they all have to go sometime but it's so hard - I don't know that we are ready to let her go without a fight. Sure hope someone out there somewhere comes up with a cure for this awful disease.

 

[Guest Energy11]

Hello, and welcome to Greytalk. I wish you visit were under better circumstances.

 

Our Max, 11.5 was diagnosed very early with Osteo. We didn't do a biopsy.

 

I don't do amputations, but only palliative care (pain management) with mine. With pain management, Max lived three months after his diagnosis, and we even able to move out of Florida, to the mountains with us.

 

If you are thinking about amputation, you need to speak to the others who have been through this, and get their opinions, as it is a very personal decision.

 

Even if you don't actually go to OSU, you could certainly email or send the x-rays for Dr. Couto's interpretation. That would be a good step. His email is: couto.1@osu.edu.

 

Good Luck, and lots of love and prayers from us!

Edited November 29, 2009 by Energy11

[Guest smarthound]

My next step would be to contact OSU for a second opinion. Why not send an email and ask them to consult with your vet before deciding on the next step.

[Guest Energy11]

My next step would be to contact OSU for a second opinion. Why not send an email and ask them to consult with your vet before deciding on the next step.

 

 

Ditto, and have them (OSU) review the x-rays as well.

[Guest IrskasMom]

WELCOME to GT ditto to above . Having lost my beloved Boy to this dreadful Desease , I know what you

going through , I am so sorry . Go get a second Opinion from Dr. Couto .

Edited November 29, 2009 by IrskasMom

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Where are you located?

 

I've had 3 of my greys diagnosed with Osteo. Morgan was 10.5 when his front leg broke from osteo when coming down the stairs. At that point, the choice is euthanize or amputate. His leg was amputated and he had 4 rounds of carboplatin. We had him for 3 more years and he didn't have a recurrence. We lost him to LS at 13.5.

 

10 month after Morgan's diagnosis, Alex was limping but the xrays were not conclusive. A fine needle aspiration (FNA) was negative. He had a bone biopsy that came back positive. He was in a huge amount of pain from the bone biopsy. I will never put a dog through that again. Alex's rear leg was amputated and after his 3rd chemo, we found out he had lung mets. We switched to a salvage protocol but we only had him a few weeks more. Alex was approx. 8 (not tattooed).

 

Demon was diagnosed last summer. He was almost 7 and it seemed to be caught early. He was amputated and finished 4 rounds of carboplatin at the end of Sept. So far he's doing great. His was located in his front shoulder.

[Bevd]

I also agree with the second opinion as a matter of urgency.

 

Just setting aside the second opinion for a moment though, I think you need to decide what you'd gain from a biopsy. If you would not be planning on doing an amputation, it seems pointless to do a biopsy because it's very painful and then after it's been done, the dog is still in the same situation. If you are planning on an amputation, a biopsy is still pointless (in my opinion) because the results take a good few days (sometimes up to 10 days) to come back and that's a lot of time to loose with something like bone cancer (particularly if it's osteo).

 

Amputation is a very personal decision and the suitability must be based on the dogs overall health, temperament regarding vet visits, the owners personal situation etc etc etc. I do have an amputee (front right osteo, October 2007) and she did fine with her chemo too. Lots and lots of dogs do fabulously well coping with the surgery and also with the chemo and some of them are lucky enough to have full and active lives for some time afterwards. My Darcy is just over 25 months post diagnosis/amp and there are others who are approaching this stage and past this stage - and there are many many others who lived for a shorter time.

 

I wish you all the best with your very hard decisions

[Guest bigorangedog]

We just went through this with our 11-yr-old boy Whitey. He had his amp 2 weeks ago and is doing really well. I added a page on my blog of "What to Expect with a Leg Amputation" which you can check out (link in my sig), including some advice about what to do before making the decision.

 

I would NOT do the bone biopsy, if I were you. If it is early, she will have a good chance with amp and chemo. If I were you, I would get a high-resolution x-ray of the shoulder, the other shoulder for comparison, both back legs, and especially her lungs. Email or overnight those to OSU. If they agree that it is osteo, and that it has not shown up anywhere else, and all her other legs look in good shape, then you have to make the decision whether to amputate. Maybe my blog page can help you with that decision, but it'll really be based on what you think she (and you) can handle based on her personality.

 

You can also see Whitey's progress on the blog posts from the past 2-3 weeks.

 

Email me if you want to talk. I know it is a very hard decision.

Best of luck.

Jen

 

P.S. I have had 4 dogs with osteo this year. Whitey was the only one who was a candidate for amputation. So I can talk with you about the pain management route a little bit too. Tanner's tumor was too high up on his hip, and he also had lumbosacral stenosis, so we couldn't do amp with him. Crisco's osteo was in his spine. And Annie would've been a candidate medically, but she would shake for an hour if we so much as cut her toenails, so we didn't think she could handle it. Annie lived for about 2 months after diagnosis before her pain became unmanageable. Crisco, one week before he stopped eating. Tanner, hard to say because he was repeatedly misdiagnosed -- he was our first ever with osteo.

[Devotion]

Welcome to GT. I'm saddened about the possible osteo diagnosis. I've been down this road several times. I would contact OSU like stated above. Does your vet actually do amputations or would you be taking her to OSU? Can you take several days off when she comes home from amputation if that's the route you choose? How shakey are her hind quarters?

 

Personally, I would not do a biopsy. OSU or a Radiologist can read the x-rays and tell you. A Biopsy is very painful for the dog. There is also a chance of a fracture.

 

If you choose to treat symptoms go ahead and get the pain meds now. More times than not it seems the pain becomes worse at night or on the weekends so have the meds ready. Talk to your vet about this now.

 

Also, I would suggest thinking about what you want for your grey. With my first grey, Devotion, who was diagnosed on his 7th BD I knew what I wanted the quality of his life to be. Sometimes, when you are very emotional it's hard. Make sure you think about it before hand so you make the best decision for your grey. Osteo is extremely painful.

 

Prayers for you that you make the best decision for you and your girl.

 

 

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Forgot to mention the stats:

- with pain management alone, median is 2 months

- with amputation and no chemo, median is 5 months

- with amputation and chemo, median is 12-14 months

[iluvgreys]

I'm so very sorry to hear your news. You've gotten very good advice so far. Also recommend joining the Circle of Grey group for additional support and advice in dealing with bone cancer. Sending prayers and light to your precious girlie...

Edited November 29, 2009 by iluvgreys

[RobinM]

Forgot to mention the stats:

- with pain management alone, median is 2 months

- with amputation and no chemo, median is 5 months

- with amputation and chemo, median is 12-14 months

 

 

Unfortunately, this is as stated, the median=average. My Polli was amputated and had 5 rounds of chemo and died just 1 day short of 5 months.

 

I am sorry to hear about your girl and I will definitely go for a 2nd opinion @ OSU. They will get back to you very quickly.

[duncan41]

Is your Vet grey-savvy? If so, then consulting with OSU shouldn't be an issue - there are MANY benefits to be had as a result of doing a consult.

If your Vet isn't particularly grey-savvy, then PLEASE take the advice offered free of charge here from those who have been there. GTers are the best - hands down, no questions asked - absolutely unrivaled, in my opinion. Your decisions will have our 100% support, and everyone will be here to hold your hand, cheer you on, provide hugs of support and cry with you.

Welcome to GT, and I am so very sorry that the possibility of this diagnosis brought you here, but you have landed in the right place. Please update when you can.

[joejoesmom]

We just went through this with our 11-yr-old boy Whitey. He had his amp 2 weeks ago and is doing really well. I added a page on my blog of "What to Expect with a Leg Amputation" which you can check out (link in my sig), including some advice about what to do before making the decision.

 

I would NOT do the bone biopsy, if I were you. If it is early, she will have a good chance with amp and chemo. If I were you, I would get a high-resolution x-ray of the shoulder, the other shoulder for comparison, both back legs, and especially her lungs. Email or overnight those to OSU. If they agree that it is osteo, and that it has not shown up anywhere else, and all her other legs look in good shape, then you have to make the decision whether to amputate. Maybe my blog page can help you with that decision, but it'll really be based on what you think she (and you) can handle based on her personality.

 

You can also see Whitey's progress on the blog posts from the past 2-3 weeks.

 

Email me if you want to talk. I know it is a very hard decision.

Best of luck.

Jen

 

P.S. I have had 4 dogs with osteo this year. Whitey was the only one who was a candidate for amputation. So I can talk with you about the pain management route a little bit too. Tanner's tumor was too high up on his hip, and he also had lumbosacral stenosis, so we couldn't do amp with him. Crisco's osteo was in his spine. And Annie would've been a candidate medically, but she would shake for an hour if we so much as cut her toenails, so we didn't think she could handle it. Annie lived for about 2 months after diagnosis before her pain became unmanageable. Crisco, one week before he stopped eating. Tanner, hard to say because he was repeatedly misdiagnosed -- he was our first ever with osteo.

Ditto to everything BigOrangeDog said. I would not do a bone biopsy. I would definitely look for signs of cancer in the rest of the body, especially the lungs. I would definitely send all xrays to OSU for a (free) email consultation. I would do this sooner rather than later as osteo can be very aggressive.

 

If you decide to come to OSU, I want to let you know about the possible available aid from some central Ohio greyhound owners. A group of us have formed an OSU Greyhound support group. We offer non-financial support for people and their hounds who have to come a long way to visit OSU. This support is free and can range from assistance in hotel reservations and moral support all the way to putting you and your dog up in our house or even taking care of your dog for you post-amp if you are not able to. Most of us are not vet techs but we are normal people who just love greyhounds. We follow the care plan that OSU prescribes and will call them if we notice anything unusual. If you have questions, email me at:

 

finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

How to contact OSU (for phone number and email):

 

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/4366.htm

 

Contact Dr. Couto at:

 

couto.1@osu.edu

 

If you don't get a quick reply then he is probably traveling. Contact the team at:

 

greyosu@osu.edu

 

Actually, I would probably put both address in the To: field.

 

Jane

[Guest RenaeT]

Wow - Thanks everyone for so many positive thoughts & wishes & advice !! I am overwhelmed with how fantastic greyhound people are! Anyway, we did take all your advice & my husband is overnighting her x-rays to OSU today. We did NOT schedule a biopsy. Will keep you posted. The one thing that is sad is that we have another greyhound who will miss her very much as they are like peanut butter & jelly. Thanks again - you've been terrific.

[Guest Energy11]

Excellent move to overnight the x-rays to OSU!!! Also, excellent NOT to do the biopsy.

 

Please don't think the worst until you have to. Try to stay positive until OSU reviews the x-rays, and then, you can move forward from there.

 

Love, hugs and good luck! Dee and The Five

[MP_the4pack]

Hi and welcome

 

I just went thru this in Oct. My almost 12 girl started limping, there was a shadow on the xrays. I'm 10 hrs from OSU.

 

So I went out there. She had an appt on THursday for the doctors to check her over and give me their opinion whether they thought she could handle being a tripod and if they think there was a chance it was not OS.

She had an appt set up on Fri for surgery if the doctors thought she was a good candidate.

Dr. Couto and his oncology team, Dr Ben-Amot, the surgeon and osteopath.

 

All doctors agreed she was healthy enough to be a tripod. They all agreed that it was most probably OS and unless I really needed to verify it, we won't go further with test. I figured that whatever it was in her shoulder was VERY painful, so amputation most probably was the best bet.

I was told that she would probably have a longer recovery because of her age and arthritis. We had the surgery Friday, and she surprised them all and she was discharged on Monday, we headed home on Tuesday.

 

OSU sends my local vets the chemo with a painfully detailed protocol. No doubt in my vets mind what to do. So we see our local vets for the staple removal and chemo. I took a total of 3 days off for her surgery. I was lucky to work from home the rest of the week.

 

The first two weeks were rough, she panted and paced a lot, but once we were off pain meds, she settled very fast and now 2 months post op, she's motoring around. She was running in the back yard yesterday after her 5 yr old sister the other day.

She turned 12 two weeks after her surgery. And I can see she is pain free and happy.

 

Also if money is tight, there are WONDERFUL people around OSU that will put you up in their homes. Dr. Couto may also give a discount as well as give the chemo drug for free.

 

We had a setback where Diamond had an infection that took a month to clear up. But she has started her chemo and has her 2nd round this friday.

 

You can do the OSU route if need be. It's doable.

And don't let age factor in either. Look at her health.

 

 

This was probably the most stressful decision I've ever had to make (and I'm in my 50's). But looking at her now, there is no doubt in my mind, I made the right decision.

 

But remember...............no decision is wrong. Whatever decision you make it's because you love your dog and you are doing your best to do the right thing.

 

if you need to talk you can email me at mpwith2 at yahoo.com (use proper email addy)

 

 

[Guest bigorangedog]

Glad you are talking to OSU. Just FYI, they are very busy, so if they do not get back to you right away, keep calling/emailing and you will get somebody. Or have your vet call -- sometimes that gets a quicker response. Please keep us posted here on how you are doing!

 

My boy Whitey had his staples out today, ran a little bit for the first time yesterday, and hopefully will start a doxorubicin protocol (chemo) very soon. You can always email me greyhoundmama @ earthlink . net.

[Guest ronka68]

Where are you located?

 

I've had 3 of my greys diagnosed with Osteo. Morgan was 10.5 when his front leg broke from osteo when coming down the stairs. At that point, the choice is euthanize or amputate. His leg was amputated and he had 4 rounds of carboplatin. We had him for 3 more years and he didn't have a recurrence. We lost him to LS at 13.5.

 

10 month after Morgan's diagnosis, Alex was limping but the xrays were not conclusive. A fine needle aspiration (FNA) was negative. He had a bone biopsy that came back positive. He was in a huge amount of pain from the bone biopsy. I will never put a dog through that again. Alex's rear leg was amputated and after his 3rd chemo, we found out he had lung mets. We switched to a salvage protocol but we only had him a few weeks more. Alex was approx. 8 (not tattooed).

 

Demon was diagnosed last summer. He was almost 7 and it seemed to be caught early. He was amputated and finished 4 rounds of carboplatin at the end of Sept. So far he's doing great. His was located in his front shoulder.

 

 

Hi, we're new to the list-We were just diagnosed today with Osteosarcoma of the left elbow today-my female, Girly Girl. My first grey, my heart dog and my first experience with this disease. I'm in shock and at a loss. Thank heaven for this resource. Reading this post gives me hope. My vet told me even with amputation and chemo the best I could hope for was a year. She will only turn 7 in February. Like everyone else, I was planning on many more years with her. Seems like every hounds course is different but I caught Girly Girl's limp early before there were any other symptoms or a palpable tumor. I insisted on xrays though the vet thought it was orthopedic. We are going for biopsy on Wednesday though now I am worried based on Alex's experience.

 

How is Demon doing? I pray he continues to do well?

[Guest eaglflyt]

Welcome, ronka68! You might want to start a new topic thread about your girl.

 

We do have some members here that have gone through amp/chemo with various results. We do have a few dogs that are 2, or even 3 years post amputation and still doing well. However, they are in the minority. Much depends on how early your hound is diagnosed, if the osteo has already spread, and how agressive their particular case of osteo might be.

 

I would suggest you overnight your dog's x-rays to Dr. Couto at Ohio State University for a consult on the x-rays ... it's a free service they do for the greyhounds. Here's a LINK to their website info. on bone cancer in greyhounds. Also, take some time to look around their website that is full of information.

 

Again, welcome to GT! I'll be saying prayers for you and your girl.

[Guest bigorangedog]

Hi, we're new to the list-We were just diagnosed today with Osteosarcoma of the left elbow today-my female, Girly Girl. My first grey, my heart dog and my first experience with this disease. I'm in shock and at a loss. Thank heaven for this resource. Reading this post gives me hope. My vet told me even with amputation and chemo the best I could hope for was a year. She will only turn 7 in February. Like everyone else, I was planning on many more years with her. Seems like every hounds course is different but I caught Girly Girl's limp early before there were any other symptoms or a palpable tumor. I insisted on xrays though the vet thought it was orthopedic. We are going for biopsy on Wednesday though now I am worried based on Alex's experience.

 

Hi Ronka68 -- As you probably saw in my responses to the original post here, we're 3-weeks post-amp with our boy Whitey, who continues to do well. As others have suggested, I would suggest NOT doing the bone biopsy. It is very painful for the dog and increases the risk of a fracture. Plus is wastes valuable time, since osteo metastasizes very quickly. Younger hounds often (but not always) have a more aggressive form than older dogs do, so time is of the essence here. Get a consult from Ohio State as soon as you can (call and email them until you get a response because they are very busy). To see what we learned from our boy Whitey's experience, check out our blog post here: MNGR Blog Feel free to PM me if you want.

Jen

 

[Guest ronka68]

Thank you so much for your reply and the blog link. I read it and it all seems to overwhelming. I alternate between frenzied action/research and utter paralysis. Girly Girl already has a bum rear leg from a hock fracture that wasn't fixed at the track. But I'm willing to get her a doggie wheelchair if that is what it takes. There is still so much life in her.

 

I do think I'll cancel the biopsy appointment. The doctor definitely saw the sunburst pattern and even I can see in the xray what it is.

 

I will email Dr. Cuoto today since, when I woke up this morning, it wasn't a dream.

 

Thanks again so much for the response. If I didn't have this resource I'm not sure how I'd get through this.

 

Veronica

[BootsyCollins]

When we consulted with Dr. Couto a year ago, he was very clear that he does not recommend biopsies in this situation for greyhounds. That is also stated on the OSU site. They can do a fine needle aspiration if you really want to know that it's osteo, or they can proceed as if it is osteo and treat accordingly.

 

Sending prayers for both of your babies.

[Guest RenaeT]

To Ronka,

I agree with the previous poster. This is what we are doing with our girl, Gambler. We overnighted her x-rays to Dr. Couto at OSU. He looked at them - emailed us back that it looked like a tumor but it wasn't conclusive (some hope maybe there!) & wanted additional films done. So today Gambler is getting more views plus chest x-rays to see if its spread or not. We will overnight them again to OSU & see what happens. They are great there. You should check them out. Because our vet was going to do a biopsy & OSU suggests against that for greyhounds as they may have complications with it. Glad I knew that ahead of time! They can usually tell just from xrays.

 

 

[Guest ronka68]

To Ronka,

I agree with the previous poster. This is what we are doing with our girl, Gambler. We overnighted her x-rays to Dr. Couto at OSU. He looked at them - emailed us back that it looked like a tumor but it wasn't conclusive (some hope maybe there!) & wanted additional films done. So today Gambler is getting more views plus chest x-rays to see if its spread or not. We will overnight them again to OSU & see what happens. They are great there. You should check them out. Because our vet was going to do a biopsy & OSU suggests against that for greyhounds as they may have complications with it. Glad I knew that ahead of time! They can usually tell just from xrays.

 

 

Oh I am sending you all my best wishes that Gambler does NOT have a tumor. What I wouldn't give for even that sliver of hope! PLEASE let someone get good news :-)

 

I sent an email off to Dr. Couto right after my last post and now my fingers are crossed. I'm willing to drive from Maine to Ohio if that is what it takes. Somehow I'll work it out. I love my vet but she isn't very experienced with greyhounds. I'm calling now to cancel the biopsy. Thank you for saving Girly Girl unneccessary pain and suffering.

 

Veronica