How Long Did It Take To Overcome Sa?

[Guest limbrooke83]

Our dog is currently experiencing some typical SA symptoms. We've had her for a little over a month, and whenever we leave her alone she pees (occasionally poops), runs around looking for us, and whines for quite awhile. After some scary escape incidents with the crate, we had no choice but to leave her loose. We found out she also likes to chew electrical cords, so she is now also muzzled while loose. Her SA isn't as bad as many cases I've read about, as she will also lay on the couch for several minutes at a time while we're gone. She also hyperfocuses on her stuffed Kong when we leave, not even noticing we're gone until she's done eating (that's when the trouble begins!). We're just starting alone training with her, and her adoption group has contacted us about potentially returning her and trying with another dog who would be better as an only dog. Needless to say we see that as a last resort, but something we are open to if our girl just can't settle into being alone. She has settled in wonderfully in other ways, roaching on a dime and playing with stuffies from day one. She's also made progress with other rules and commands, even when they keep her away from us (i.e. she now does a reliable down-stay in the living room if I'm cooking in the kitchen and don't want her in there). This is big progress for her.

 

This is why I'm asking the above question about how long it took for your dogs (those who had SA) to get past it to where they can stay at home without getting into anything, peeing on the floor, etc. I am home a lot with my studies, and will be home once I finish my degree as well since it's in a work-at-home field (medical transcription). DeeDee doesn't have to be alone very much at all, but of course we will need to be able to leave her alone once in awhile when we need to go out. I've read stories here on greytalk, and it seems lots of people's greys started out with SA even worse than DeeDee's and eventually worked through it. It also seems like many of them took more than a month, whereas we're just starting alone training with DeeDee even though we've had her 5 weeks (it's a long story). I'm just wanting to see if my perceptions from reading the board are accurate, and if it's really too soon to think about returning our dog. She seems very happy here except when we're gone, so we'd hate to return her if all she needs is some more time and alone training in order to be fine. Thanks in advance for any info/experience you guys can give!

[Guest Ashley]

We're lucky that we haven't had any destruction from Sadie... no peeing or poop either... No scratching or breaking stuff.

 

She just whines, a lot and LOUD...

 

Then when we get back she goes NUTS.

 

We ignore her for the first 5min getting back and leaving. She acts up a little but quickly learns she needs to calm to get attention... Weve had her almost 2 weeks.

 

But her making noise is still pretty bad in our living situation... so we're in the same boat as you =)... Good luck and just be strong, she'll start to get used to you leaving.. I think Sadie is making some progress everytime we leave.

 

[macoduck]

Gracie was our first greyhound. She had severe SA, destructive to herself and everything in the house including exterior doors, crates....

She was on Clomicalm a total of 3 months before she was able to understand alone training and finally relax. No problems since then.

Out of the 5 greys we've had, she was the only one with SA.

[Guest NeverSayNever]

What are you stuffing your Kong with? Do you freeze them? I'm asking because peanut butter seems to be the old standby and is often licked clean in 1 minute. Complicated Kongs and multiple Kongs might burn more energy and time. It would be nice if she was busy for 30-60 minutes.

 

I find that 1/4 cup of kibble fits into one medium sized Kong. So instead of feeding breakfast or dinner, you might take her meal, mix it with a dollop of cottage cheese, yogurt, canned dog food, or canned pumpkin, and stuff it all into multiple Kongs and freeze. You can also fill the Kongs with kibble and use a butter knife to jam peanut butter or creme cheese into the Kong and mix it up, and freeze.

 

[Guest limbrooke83]

Thanks for the answers so far.

 

Jennifer: I'm currently stuffing the Kongs with Kibble and Peanut Butter together, then freezing them. DeeDee still manages to clean them out within a few minutes, but now she has her muzzle on when we're gone, so hopefully it'll take a little longer to work at getting things out (can she even get kibble out with a muzzle on? Hmm...). Btw, I love your "Never Say Never" website - it was so much fun to read (and very informative, too!) when I was waiting to get DeeDee, my first grey. Thank you!

[Guest ArtysPeople]

It took us almost exactly six months. Up until then, every time we went out, there was a very good chance (especially if we were gone in the late afternoon) that we would come home to a hound covered in poop. Because it involved poop, we weren't willing to try the "let him out of the crate while you're gone" method, but we did do "alone training" with him, and we did our best to make sure we didn't leave him "loaded" with poop. It seemed to get better, then didn't, and then after almost exactly six months, it stopped completely. I really can't say we did anything specifically that was the "key", except that we consistently came home for him, and eventually Arty figured out we weren't abandoning him every time we left. Good luck!

[Guest ArtysPeople]

I forgot, since it's been a while. We did do training specifically to discourage whining in our absence. Alone training wasn't working on that issue -- he still started in every time we stepped outside. So we started keeping a pepsi can with pennies in it next to the door. If he started whining when we went out, we threw a can in the direction of his crate. Since he was in his crate and we threw it at the wall behind him, I don't think he ever figured out we were the ones throwing it. Some people feel very strongly against negative reinforcement for training, but with us it was the only thing that worked.

 

He continued pooping after he stopped whining, but like I posted above, it all stopped suddenly after about six months. We consistently told Arty "stay" when we left him alone, and I think that helped him, too. To this day, if I just step out without telling him to "stay", he gets a little freaked out. He really likes consistency.

[seeh2o]

Carl has SA, it raised it's ugly head a few weeks to a month after I brought him home. We've done a lot of work, lots of alone training, always have a morning walk (when it was at it's worst I was walking him 3 miles through steep hills in the park to exhaust him), I finally had to resort to clomipramine for several months. After he learned, while on medication, that he was going to be ok at home, I weaned him off (under vet's supervision) and now we're down to his strict morning routine. Two years later, when at my home, I have to follow a VERY STRICT ritual (I call it Carl's OCD routine) in order to leave the house....every time I leave the house. Whenever something upsets the day to day patterns of our house (like when Claire arrived) Carl's SA blossoms, but never as bad as it once was. The weird part is that he's fine in someone else's house. For example, when we are at my S/O's house in Las Vegas, Carl either doesn't react at all when we leave or there is minimal barking and crying and it ends almost as soon as it begins. It's so weird how it is situational.

[Guest ProudGreyMom]

Jake and Molly both have SA. Jake has been with us for 8 years and it is under control but it is still there. Molly is also getting under control after almost 2 years. Jake's SA was very severe, Molly's was more of just an adjustment from being rescued from a shelter and coming into a new home.

[Guest TBSFlame]

I have no experience in SA because I have a pack. Would it be possible for you to foster another dog just to see if the SA goes away. These dogs have never been alone and for many of them they just have trouble with it. Most foster homes have several hounds of our own and we just don't see the SA. Good luck.

[Guest greyladydown]

I have no experience in SA because I have a pack. Would it be possible for you to foster another dog just to see if the SA goes away. These dogs have never been alone and for many of them they just have trouble with it. Most foster homes have several hounds of our own and we just don't see the SA. Good luck.

 

 

Getting a second dog or having a pack doesn't necessarily cure severe SA. My boy with the worst SA had been medicated all of his life and always lived with several other greyhounds. We got him to a point where he was manageable if we followed a strick routine, but the SA was always there. When he got OS, his anxiety skyrocketed again.

[Guest limbrooke83]

I have no experience in SA because I have a pack. Would it be possible for you to foster another dog just to see if the SA goes away. These dogs have never been alone and for many of them they just have trouble with it. Most foster homes have several hounds of our own and we just don't see the SA. Good luck.

 

 

We did think of that, although a second grey just isn't in our budget right now. While we were at the foster mom's visiting, however, she agreed that it's most likely not due to an only dog issue with DeeDee, since the other dogs didn't make any difference to her (nor did having her foster mom around) when DH and I walked outside without her to see what would happen. With DeeDee we're pretty sure it's because we gave her too much attention since we're home so much. She has definitely been improving over the past few days, so hopefully within a few months she'll be able to be home alone without issues...

[Guest eaglflyt]

QUOTE

 

 

We did think of that, although a second grey just isn't in our budget right now. While we were at the foster mom's visiting, however, she agreed that it's most likely not due to an only dog issue with DeeDee, since the other dogs didn't make any difference to her (nor did having her foster mom around) when DH and I walked outside without her to see what would happen. With DeeDee we're pretty sure it's because we gave her too much attention since we're home so much. She has definitely been improving over the past few days, so hopefully within a few months she'll be able to be home alone without issues...

 

I don't know which adoption group you're working with, but, our group covers all expenses for fosters in foster homes. All vet bills, food, crate, bedding, etc. Everything is provided for fosters so there's no expense to foster homes ... just love, time, and a little training for the hound in home living. So, double check with your adoption group. Good Luck!

[Wonder]

I've had Passion 5.5 yrs and she still has some SA

[Guest rachel2025]

We've had Pike 16 months, who was a bounce back because of his SA, and seen major improvements over time. He didn't pee or poop in the house (thank goodness), but he would chew doorframes/windows/blinds/curtains to get out and cry/bark/whine a lot, so we have always crated him. Even then, he would chew on the crate and leave puddles of drool for us when we came home.

 

Routine was key in helping him. Nowadays, he is absolutely fine on Monday - Friday, when he gets walked before we leave for work, and then a walk from the doggie walker in the afternoon. If we go out at an unexpected time, however, (i.e. for dinner after work, or during the afternoon on the weekends), he will still stress out.

 

Also, he seems to be equally stressed out, even when we have my folk's dog stay with us, so I don't know that another dog is the solution.

 

Another major help was obedience training. I think it increased his confidence and ours.... the fact that yours will down-stay in another room is a great sign. When we first got Pike, he could not bear to be separated from me, even when I went to the bathroom. Now, I can be upstairs for several hours and he is fine in the other room.

 

Stick with it, it definitely improves over time (and, of course, by then you love them so much you can't even imagine giving them up.

[Guest twhitehouse]

We adopted Lexi in July of 2008 so we've had her for a year and a half now. She had sever SA since day one. When crated she would trash around in the crate, bark, cry, poop, pee, destroy ANYTHING in the crate and anything around it. She also bent the bars and escaped numerous times even with metal saftey locks on the door. Without the crate she would jump/climb over 2 stacked baby gates, destroy the blinds in the window, chew the woodwork and tables.

 

We went on medication after about 4 months of that kind of destruction. She did well once the medication kicked in and was left muzzled loose in the house. We started decreasing the medication after about 7 months. Once off the medication completely she was "normal" and didn't show the destructive signs of SA like she used to. She was good for about 5 months but she recently has had a set back. She began chewing the woodwork and door knobs again.

 

She's currently back on a very low dose of medication. So a year and a half and we're still dealing with it. But it's manageable now. Granted, having chewed woodwork, etc does suck, but when you own a dog something always gets ruined, right?

 

I think dogs with severe SA will always have some symptoms and have small set backs. Dogs who are not as bad may recover completely after 6 months or so.

[Patclara]

Nora never did get over s.a. Unfortunately, she destroyed much of our house i.e. woodwork, frames around windows, door knobs!,tables drapes, wood blinds etc.

Fortunately I decided to try and crate her. Too bad I didn't try that sooner. Altho she panted and drooled somewhat in the crate, she was comfortable there. I worked with her and the crate for a few weeks before I actually left her locked in it when I left the house.

What a relief for her and me.

[Guest aowam]

The severe SA stopped after about 2 weeks, but 2 months later he still shows signs of it especailly when he can see us outside and he's not there. LOUD LOUD desperate barking, crying and whining.

[Echobelly1]

Hadji had pretty severe S.A., we couldn't crate him, he chipped the enamel off his canine trying to get out of the crate. We would leave him in one room, muzzled so he wouldn't chew anything. We went through quite a number of blinds, he would jump on the windows and shred them. There would be a puddle of drool on the floor in front of the door from him standing there panting. We tried alone training, treats, anxiety wraps (both types). After dealing with this for 4 months, we got Gila, a very sweet but shy female. Hadji's S.A. immediately went away, he could care less when I leave now. Gila has her own issues we're dealing with, but at least she has the opposite of S.A., she is most relaxed when she's all alone and I have the feeling would be happiest if no humans actually lived in the house, she thinks we're kinda scary.

[Guest jbbuzby]

I know I've posted before about this multiple times, but my male had bad enough SA that he started harming himself when alone, usually by tearing up his paws on bars or doors. What ultimately worked was a very rigid schedule, fluoxetine, and a second greyhound. Now, as long as I follow routine, I can trust my male to stay at home and sleep while I'm gone .

[Guest badderh]

I forgot, since it's been a while. We did do training specifically to discourage whining in our absence. Alone training wasn't working on that issue -- he still started in every time we stepped outside. So we started keeping a pepsi can with pennies in it next to the door. If he started whining when we went out, we threw a can in the direction of his crate. Since he was in his crate and we threw it at the wall behind him, I don't think he ever figured out we were the ones throwing it. Some people feel very strongly against negative reinforcement for training, but with us it was the only thing that worked.

 

He continued pooping after he stopped whining, but like I posted above, it all stopped suddenly after about six months. We consistently told Arty "stay" when we left him alone, and I think that helped him, too. To this day, if I just step out without telling him to "stay", he gets a little freaked out. He really likes consistency.

 

Just out of curiosity, since I have been looking high and low for things to help my dog with his SA. What is the thought process behind the pennies in a can? or why does it work?

[Guest snakes]

I chose less than a month but there wasn't a good answer for me. Mine have always been good when i go to work, out for the night ect. My problem was leaving one home or somewhere wihtout the other or one/both in the car. It took almost a year before I learned the tricks to lessen their anxiety, it was basically trial and error with some good luck by stumbling upon tricks that worked. For isntnace, my boy HATES to be left alone. If I walk out the door with my girl and leave him behind he will cry and whine endlessly. However, if i take them both out, leave the girl down in the car, then bring him up and give him a high quality treat (he only get this when left alone) and leave he is fine, goes and sleeps on the bed. I figured this out by accident and am still amazed that a relatively little trick makes all the difference.

My other trick is that if the windows in the car are mostly up they won't cry, if they are down so they can get their heads out they will bark and cry.

And the best piece of advice i ever got with SA that works wonders with mine is to never look them in the eye when leaving, just give a treat turn around and walk out.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

My two show bred Whippets (typical of show bred Whippets in many cases) have varying degrees of SA. One was severe in his young life. Ditching the crate more or less handled the WORST of it, and a few years went by and I suddenly realized that unless I moved or stayed in a strange house or motel or something, he was pretty much fine. Finally, at age 14, almost 15, I can leave him in a motel room (or move to a new house) and know he'll pace, stare at the door, and be stressed, but he won't bite the door handle or gnaw on the window/door frames. This is a perfect (otherwise) dog, too, who never chewed anything or had any accidents that were not SA related, even as a young puppy. He had SA at eight weeks- throwing his body into the window and screaming when I left for high school in the mornings, even with my mom standing right there. I moved out a year later, and then he had to be left totally alone, but luckily I never went anywhere but classes and not for more than a couple hours. He picked me the day I met him, and he's never wanted anyone or anything else. It's why he's my soulmate, but it hasn't always been an easy road. I'm just about as attached to him as he is to me, and I won't go anywhere for more than an hour or two without him. Some of that is habit, since I've now lived since the age of 17 being completely restricted by a dog with crippling SA. Now at almost 32, I don't know any different life, and I don't want to waste a minute of whatever time he has left. He also gets sick if I am gone more than a typical day out (something I discovered long ago) and has to be given flagyl in those cases to avoid an episode.

 

Since that's probably discouraging, I'll say I've shared my home with countless dogs, fosters, etc, and none have been as bad as he was/is. My young Whippet whines in the crate until we're "gone" and whines with excitement when we return, but can be left like a "normal" dog for the most part. He doesn't drool, get sick, scream, try to break out of the crate, or have entrance directed destruction like my other one did when he was the same age.

 

I've had one Greyhound with SA, an oops litter puppy- actually the first Greyhound I ever had in my house, many years ago. Already dealing with the above mentioned Whippet, I decided I could not handle two like that, so I turned him into an adoption group (I'd originally sprung him from an animal shelter). I am told he indeed had severe SA, but found a caring home that was willing to deal with it.

 

Beyond that, I've had a few Greys with minor SA, whining in the crate, etc, but nothing like my heart dog "put me" through.

 

Interesting to note, *race bred* Whippets almost NEVER have SA... (mine would live in a crate if I let her and couldn't care less about us leaving). I strongly believe it's genetic in nature.

 

And it's why I never bred from my heart dog, who was a successful show and coursing dog.

[NeylasMom]

I forgot, since it's been a while. We did do training specifically to discourage whining in our absence. Alone training wasn't working on that issue -- he still started in every time we stepped outside. So we started keeping a pepsi can with pennies in it next to the door. If he started whining when we went out, we threw a can in the direction of his crate. Since he was in his crate and we threw it at the wall behind him, I don't think he ever figured out we were the ones throwing it. Some people feel very strongly against negative reinforcement for training, but with us it was the only thing that worked.

 

He continued pooping after he stopped whining, but like I posted above, it all stopped suddenly after about six months. We consistently told Arty "stay" when we left him alone, and I think that helped him, too. To this day, if I just step out without telling him to "stay", he gets a little freaked out. He really likes consistency.

 

Just out of curiosity, since I have been looking high and low for things to help my dog with his SA. What is the thought process behind the pennies in a can? or why does it work?

There is no thought process behind correcting a dog for anxiety he cannot control. If the dog just whines because he's bored or some other similar reason, the can of pennies may work (although there are other imo less potentially harmful methods), but to correct or scare a dog for having anxiety is just wrong, and it won't solve the problem. It may stop the vocalization, but the anxiety will likely manifest itself another way.

 

To the OP, have you tried a DAP collar? Since your pup's anxiety is a bit milder it may do the trick. Zuri's is very similar and I've found that very good exercise and other mental stimulation throughout the week (a daily training session where we work on tricks or shaping new behaviors REALLY helps him) combined with the DAP collar keep him happy and calm. Otherwise, he barks and on really bad days, pees. He's also still crated as much as I wish he weren't because he's more comfortable there, but he never tried to break out.

 

Anyway, to answer your original question, I don't think you need to return her since you seem to be committed to working with her. If they don't think another dog will help, wouldn't the next adopter just need to do the same work anyway? Get a copy of Patricia McConnel's I'll Be Home Soon and start working through the alone training. Make sure you're providing a lot of exercise and mental stimulation (chewing is also great for this) and see how things go. If she's still having issues, you may want to consider a medication like Chlomicalm.

[Dawnnziggy]

I have told this before, but Ziggy had it bad! He tore the back off of our loveseat. He ate some wood off of our furniture. It stopped suddenly when we adopted our 3rd grey. He is now the perfect hound. You would never know he had SA.