My Dog's Auto Imune Skin Disease

[Guest ryanh]

My dog is so beautiful and my heart is just breaking. He has an auto immune disease of the skin. Pemphigus is what my vet believes. We nurtured him back to health with antibiotics and prednisone. His skin healed up and he was his oldself. Then about a year later I am seeing him hobble around for no apparent reason. He got a hair cut and now I notice he has some blisters back but on his back side not on his face like before when it was so horrible. However, he walks like he is 90 years old and I am taking him in to the vet tomorrow, but why would this just attack like over night practically? He is only 6 years old, and I am just so sad. He does not look right and I am worried this disease has spread beyong the outter skin. He looks alert but he usually loves to run and play ball and now he just hobbles over. It is breaking my heart and I told myself not to ever get another animal after my last but I had to get my dog "Papi". Now my heart is breaking again and I need some support. Any advice? Anything at all? The vet will want to do all sorts of tests and we can handle some but we can't afford all the rest he will need to do. I feel like crawling in a hole. Please help! Email me please! ryanhumpert@dslextreme.com

[CaliforniaGreys]

First, take a breath. I don't have any experience that would help but I'm sure there are people here who do.

Hang in there. I know it's easier said than done, but try

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

I can't Imagen how you feel .... but please take a deep Breath and organize. You said ,he just got a Haircut. Is it a Greyhound

or what Breed is it ? I have really no Experience with that. Also your Location in Case of Reference is Important . OSU or

the Team of Dr. Couto might be able to give some Advice ,therefore the Location. Please , I know its hard, but give some

more Details .

[Greylover97]

From what I understand Pemphigus only affects the skin. Something else must being going on for his gait to be off.

[rschultz]

what state do you live in/ I know here in ohio we have a wonderful vet dermatologist. Maybe in your area they have one?

[Guest SoulsMom]

It does sound like something else might be going on other than the autoimmune disease . . . .

 

Soul has discoid lupus (also autoimmune) which affects his nose, eyes, nails, and pads. He does very well when he's on a grain free food. Supplements of Vit E, and niacinamide also help.

Edited June 14, 2009 by SoulsMom

[Guest Energy11]

What breed is you dog???? Yes, it DOES sound autoimmune, but there are treatments for that! Keep us posted, and good luck!

[Guest Greytluv]

Sending healing white light. Keep us posted.

 

[Guest ryanh]

Thank you everyone. Well my dog is an odd mix of a grey and a German Shep. He is considered a Shep Mix. I just don't get it. He had this huge flare up last year about Feb. I thought he was in big trouble. Well, high doses of prednisone and antibiotics for a few months really started to clear it up. Well, he finally has gotten down to taken a capsule of Snip Tips Omega product. It has a lot of fish oil and skin aids. Then he was down to 5mg of pred. every other day. Then all of a sudden he had his hair cut. The lady cut it a little short in a few areas, and I was not happy, but I let it go knowing I live here in CA and it would be very hot soon. I think possibly that triggered it or something because I have noticed his hair has grown in some but it looks a bit odd and knotted for being so short still. Well, those knots were little scabs from blisters underneith. However, he has been ok. His prednisone was increased some and he still has his ears perky and face is alert. Just two days ago he was running all over chasing his ball he loves. Then yesterday I came down with something and I have been on antibiotics. So I have had a fever and night sweats. Terribly sick! So I didn't pay a whole of attention to what the dog was doing. My wife gave him food and he gulped it down. I go out today and he looks like a 105 year old man trying to walk. I nearly broke down thinking it has come back worse. I have to go to the Dr. tomorrow for me and I have hardly any energy at all. My wife has to take me before she works, and I won't be able to take my dog till Tuesday. I have been stuck in bed. I am just really frustrated. My vet is really good, but like all vets here in Cali, they really charge an arm and a leg for everything. We are a bit financially strapped and I know he is going to want to do all these things and I can't pay for it all. I will do the blood work of course and all, I just wish the meds didn't cost 8 times what they cost on the internet.

 

Weirdest part of this all is that the last time we discovered my dog's disease it started in his eyes, nose, face mainly. This time his face is fine, but his back has the blisters under the fur. It is very odd. It is terribly frustrating and on top of my cold I am in bed depressed over my doggy. Thank you all for the concern and feedback. Maybe someone has gone through this before? Either way, I appreciate hearing from all of you. God Bless you all!

 

Ryan

[Batmom]

Is he still on pred? He's probably got a staph infection. Get him to the vet for antibiotics asap, and don't use that groomer again.

[Guest Judynyc]

It does sound like something else might be going on other than the autoimmune disease . . . .

 

Soul has discoid lupus (also autoimmune) which affects his nose, eyes, nails, and pads. He does very well when he's on a grain free food. Supplements of Vit E, and niacinamide also help.

I agree!! If you do not feed him a grain free diet, please get him off all grains asap....there are many really good grain free foods out there. Rice and corn are also grains, just in case you didn't know this.

Wheat, barley, millet, oats...all grains.

 

I've seen dogs cured of very bad skin issues with this kind of "switch to grain free" in their food.

 

Good luck to both of you and I hope that you are both feeling better soon.

[Guest ryanh]

Speaking of Staff infection. I am wondering if we got eachother sick! I might have one as well. I am not sure though. With staff would he show signs of nasal and eye mucous? This is when I wish I had antibiotics on hand and could just give him some to start until he gets in. I think either way staff or not, he probably needs antibiotics for those open blisters he has on his back from the Auto Immune issues. He acts as if his arm and leg joints hurt him suddenly. Almost like he just ran for 10 miles and his body is sore. He has the look of energy on his face but his body hurts so he just lays there. His ears are perky that is what gives me hope. He is such a touch dog. He has gone through some major pain and he just keeps on going and ignores it. I did go and get him some doggy aspirin at the petstore. I know it is not the greatest thing to give dogs meds, but I thought this would at least help with any pain. Maybe the scabs on his back are causing him pain when he walks. Should I try a benadryl maybe? Any ideas?

[Batmom]

Needs to see a vet. If he's moving slow and seems to be in pain, really needs to see a vet as soon as you can possibly get him there. Wouldn't give meds without consulting a vet.

[Chicocat]

You really should see the vet. Auto Immune can become systemic. That is always a concern when joint pain seems to b involved.

[DaisyDoodle]

Since he's part Shepherd, I would do as much research as possible on Degenerative Myelopathy. DM is an autoimmune disorder that is generally found in Shepherds. It involves hind-end weakness, but also weird skin growths. Another facet of it is intolerance of heat--please keep your dog in a cool room for everything but brief potty breaks 'til you know what he has.

 

Dr Roger Clemmons at the University of Florida Vet School has done a lot of research on DM, but I'm not sure if he's done anything new recently. He does have a vitamin/supplement mixture, but you need to get a script from your vet for it.

 

Regarding all the tests--ask the vet if the test will change the course of treatment. If it doesn't and the treatment isn't too toxic nor too expensive, try the treatment. If the treatment works, then you can generally conclude that the presumed diagnosis was probably correct.

 

If you do end up using prednizone long-term, please be careful. It has to be used every-other-day if it used for a long (I think more than a month, but ask your vet), otherwise it can cause iatrogenic (treatment-induced) Cushings Disease. Also be careful not to use pred at the same time as NSAIDS, they don't mix well, but I don't know why (maybe someone else can give details on this).

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Donna

[CaliforniaGreys]

If you're here in Southern Ca. we have a group of excellent dermatologists who on certain days of the month are in certain areas.

[Guest ryanh]

Thank you all for the replies. Thank you Donna for explaining DM. I know this is mainly a pure bread Greyhound site, but I kinda stormed in worried about my dog and desperate. I have noticed from when I was younger that all dogs whether they are German Sheps or mixed with Shep they always seem to favor their legs and hips and it just spreads. I never noticed it on a dog only 6, but that is what seems to be happening. When he is sitting he looks perfectly fine, ears perky, tail wagging, like he is waiting for me to either put a leash on him or throw the ball. Next thing he tries to get up and he is in slow motion. I know about the prednizone too. It is a catch 22 because he needs it, yet, it certainly is not good. I am sad because he was on 30Mg's a day for a month a while back, and then we finally got him down to every other day 5 mg's. And now he has this return, which returning symptoms are usually worse than the original. Worst part is I have had a fever for 4 days and very sick and I feel very frustrated. When your on a plane they say first the parents put on the oxygen and then help the child. Right now we are both in need at the same time! It is hard to take care of him and myself. He refuses to eat anything unless it is chicken breast or something other than dog food. Thank you all again for caring about a stranger. I need it.....

[Burpdog]

I wonder if the shampoo had anything to do with this latest breakout.

 

Not a strange mix at all. Saw one in KS at Greyhound America. Very handsome dog!

 

Have your vet call WalMart for any prescriptions you can get there like pred and many of the antibiotics. It will save a lot. Your vet should understand "financially strapped" and if he/she doesn't, find another vet.

 

Sending prayers you both feel well soon!

 

btw - re pred if you do every other day (for instance 10 mg every other instead of 5 each day) it will cut down on the side effects) I give milk thistle to help support the liver when a dog is on pred.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Burpdog

[Guest kydie]

healing white light to both of you from Pa. Yes, pred can be a catch 22, but if that is what he needs, so be it, what ever helps, I too think the shampoo could cause the skin out break, DM i am aware of but never experienced this issue, but you must be calm, your friend needs you

[Guest ryanh]

Hello! Thanks. Does Milk Thistle work on humans as well when they have elevated liver enzymes. I think I have heard of that used to cleanse the liver? Well, I wish my vet would have mentioned that 2 years ago when this all started and I would have given my dog that with the pred. I actually did have him down to 5MG's every other day. I think maybe that was pushing it a bit. He has such a pretty coat normally, but lately, with the little sores under his coat on his back side, his fur looks very odd. It is not patchy like there is no hair at all, but it is more just really shiny in one area and then dry and flaky in the next. I think it hurts to brush it at all so I try not to. I bought some oatmeal bath the other day but since I have been so sick I haven't had any energy to try it. If I shampoo him like once a week, then his fur doesn't have a chance to start getting all knotted up, etc...but it is hard to keep up once a week. I feel so bad for him. He is a super dog and he just looks at me with the sad face. I am sure his liver is on overload. My vet is a nice guy. He tried to tell me last time they have competitve rates, but I told him. I can get 80 tablets of pred. for 10 bucks online, and his are 42 bucks. Right there I save 30 dollars toward blood work or what have you. His rates are fine compared to other local vets, but not the big online pharms.

 

The saddest part is if something happens to my dog, I don't think I can stomach having any more pets. I just don't do well with them dying or getting sick. It just wears on me and I am tired of the heartache. I love dogs too. I really love dogs. Seriously, there are all kinds of dogs in my area. Why does my dog end up being the one getting some rare auto-immune disease? It is so frustrating for me. Thank you for your post....

[Guest ryanh]

Thank Kydie....Maybe it was the shampoo. It is just an oatmeal based shampoo. Non allergenic or whatever they call it, but gee, with his skin issues you might be right. It is still gloomy and not even hot yet here in southern Cal, so I know it is not a sun or heat reaction. Plus, he is not in the direct sun unless he is running around. Lately, it is cloudy all day anyhow. I am hoping that those scabs I feel under his coat. They are like blisters. I am hoping they are just causing discomfort and it is nothing inside his joints going on. I will see what the vet says here in a bit. It is all a guessing game for him as well though. My guess is he will put him on an antibiotic, increase the pred, and do a liver blood test. Not a whole lot more can be done. I am just praying it hasn't spread inside his muscle and joint. He was pretty down and out about 18 months ago. I thought he was not going to make it. He looked a mess, and he pulled through and was fine till now.

[Guest Greensleeves]

You have to remember that with auto-immune diseases, there are times that they just DO FLARE, no matter how well-controlled the symptoms have been up until then. Sometimes there's no way of knowing what caused it, but I know that stress and overdoing it can definitely be triggers.

 

Auto-immune diseases are also tightly interrelated. Your chances of having one increase your chances of getting another. I'm wondering if he might be showing signs of Immune Mediated Polyarthritis, which can be secondary to other auto-immune conditions.

 

I know how desperate and frustrated you are. Speaking as a sufferer of a handful of immune-mediated conditions, you kind of just have to get in the zen with it. Manage the symptoms, control the environment, and be ready for flare-ups at the most inconvenient times possible, and try not to let them throw your whole world into chaos.

[Guest ryanh]

Hey Greensleeves,

 

Thanks for the reply. Well, he had a CBC done today and it showed his liver holding pretty good other than one of the enzymes being elevated some. He was positive for Cushing's Disease as a result of the 2 years on pred. So, there is something new. Didn't change much though, he is still on 5mg's of pred. every other day. He is on an antibiotic for 30 days to hopefully heal the skin. His white blood cell count was like 22 and normal range is 5-16 so it was quite elvated maybe due to the blisters on the skin. The Dr. said we could try Cyclosporin but it runs 250-300 a month! He even said unnless you are very well off, that is so pricey. He did say it may not even work, but if it did it would be better than pred. by a mile. That is just so expensive. So we are going to hope for now he keeps doing well enough to have a good life and play and not feel to much in pain. He is doing ok at the moment. Thanks!

[CaliforniaGreys]

He has Cushings? Is he being treated for Cushing?

[greyhndz]

Diagnosing Cushings would entail more than just one lab test, and it sounds as if your vet just did a CBC and chemistry profile. Chronic steroids don't cause Cushings; they can cause "Cushingoid" physical changes - weight gain, thin skin, muscle atrophy, etc., but this is not the same as Cushings, which an excess production of cortisol by the adrenal gland, as opposed to an exogenous source such as oral steroids. So it's very doubtful that your pup actually has Cushings.

 

I absolutely agree that steroids are a horrendous drug for anyone (human or animal) to be on. In many cases, though, steroids can gradually be eliminated, or tapered down, by using another class of medication to suppress the immune system. Cyclosporin is one, but as you said, is very $$$$. There are others which are considerably cheaper, such as azathioprine (Imuran) which come generic and can be purchased at a discount at pharmacies online like Costco. There are others, such as methotrexate and leflumonide, which also come generic and can be found at a good price.

 

Many primary care vets just don't have enough experience with autoimmune diseases to feel comfortable prescribing and managing these meds, though. This is where a consult with an internal medicine vet or a vet dermatologist could really help - you don't have to make multiple visits to the specialists, but sometimes just one visit to confirm a diagnosis and start a treatment plan will be enough, and the specialist can then guide your own vet on med management. This would entail a visit which would be $$$$, but it might also save a lot of trial-and-error with your own vet.

 

BTW, I, too, have autoimmune disease and have been in remission (without any steroid use, ever) for > 2 years, so it may indeed be possible to achieve this with your pup. OTOH, my IG has immune mediated polyarthritis as well as kidney disease, and despite being on an immunosuppressant (leflumonide) has crashed every time her steroids have been tapered to within a week or two of stopping, so for quality of life purposes, she does have to stay on a daily low dose. Lexi has an internal medicine vet to manage her autoimmune disease, but this is almost always done by phone, and my own vet takes care of Lexi's day-to-day care while consulting with the IM vet for questions or problems.

 

Important question: was this diagnosis confirmed by biopsy?

Edited June 17, 2009 by houndznigz