Same Story, Different Day

[Guest argolola]

Rudy has been to 6 different doctors at 3 different vet practices in 2 different cities. Our latest vet has even consulted with Dr. Cuoto. No one has any answers.

 

He has been tested for almost everything under the sun, and although the vets thought it was a TBD, it was not.

 

Every time he goes on Doxy, he feels great. Once the Doxy is gone, he resorts back to feeling bad, hiding in his cage, refusing to go out for bathroom breaks, no socialization with the family, feeling warm, etc. He also gets little red bumps on his lower extremities. He goes from devouring his supper to not eating. When he won't eat, we give him Ensure.

 

We are financially tapped out. The suggestions so far are: auto immune disorder or some type of cancer. A fellow GTer had some interesting info on a vitamin B-12 deficiency or mal-absorption.

 

There has to be something that the doctors are missing. I'm sorry to post about this again, but trust me, we need help. My bi-polar husband is having major meltdown with this.

 

Thank you all.

Edited May 28, 2009 by argolola

[Guest davidml]

My girl Justine has been going through the same issues for the past 3-4 weeks. One day she eats a little, next day she does not. Ensure has been my lifesaver until the VET can figure out what's going on. Best wishes.

[Batmom]

Does he resume his weirdness pretty much first day after antibiotics are gone, or does it take 3-4-5 days?

 

Out of curiosity, have any of your vets suggested trying an anti-anxiety med like Clomicalm or Xanax or even just benadryl for him? Doesn't explain the little red bumps, but could be the antibiotics slow him down a little (they do this to one of my dogs), thereby taking the edge off his nervousness.

[Scooby172]

My grey/whippet mix slowly developed increased anxiety, fearfulness, refusing to go outside hiding it just kept getting worse over time. Sometimes she would eat and sometimes not. Bloodwork showed she was hypothyroid, we have been adjusting her dose and she finally seems to be making progress. I feel like my old dog is coming back.

 

I'm sure with all the vet visits and specialists her thyroid has been tested but I thought I would share. It was funny because she did not have any of the classic signs of hypothyroid which surprised the vet.

Good luck

Linda, Valor, Bella and Keeva

[RobinM]

I wish I had some advice. I do know what it feels like to have exhusted so many avenues with no concrete answers. Beyond frustrating and as you said, financially draining.

 

Would they consider a low dose/ profilatic dose of the doxy for him for a while . Then go every other day... every 3rd day?

 

 

[Guest argolola]

Thanks all.

 

We thought thyroid too, but his was fine. He does have slightly low platelets, but greys tend to be lower anyway.

 

Anxiety is something I hadn't thought about. Thank you. He just breaks my heart. I am going to talk to the vet when they open back up. Doxy seems to be his miracle drug.

[seeh2o]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Carl's nightmare saga of misdiagnosis only lasted a short time compared to poor Rudy's and Carl's only symptom where corneal rings. It's heart breaking, frustrating and maddening to not know what is wrong when something is so very clearly wrong. You just want to FIX IT! I have a friend who is bi polar and I know how something like this can work on her and throw her off. It happened to her when my Kobie ran away, she helped me look for him for weeks and the stress of it (along with some other things in her life) took it's toll on her.

 

How bad would it be for him to be on the lowest effective level of Doxy for a long period of time? It seems like I remember reading about someone on GT whose dog had to take Doxy for an indeterminate period of time.

 

Has he been checked for Valley Fever?

[greyhead]

Isn't doxy used to treat TBD's? And aren't low platelets a sign of a possible TBD? So I vote with those who suggest continuing on the lowest effective dose of doxy. Sometimes you just have to do what works even if you don't know why.

[Guest PhillyPups]

First to you.

 

Please, please do not take this the wrong way, that is not my intent at all.

 

You did the vet/medical route so - am wondering if it is possible the problem is not physical.

 

Generally, greyhounds are an extremely sensitive breed. Some hounds are more sensitive than others. I know my Zeus is one, he would not thrive in a noisy/busy/stressful household. Could stress be a factor? It is possible that like happened recently on GT, a dog that was returned due to potty/behavior issues is now thriving in the new home.

 

Again, please do not take this the wrong way at all. I was taught early on "there's a perfect home for every greyhound, it just does not have to be my home".

[Batmom]

How bad would it be for him to be on the lowest effective level of Doxy for a long period of time?

 

If that keeps him symptom-free, that would be a good idea.

[Guest argolola]

First to you.

 

Please, please do not take this the wrong way, that is not my intent at all.

 

You did the vet/medical route so - am wondering if it is possible the problem is not physical.

 

Generally, greyhounds are an extremely sensitive breed. Some hounds are more sensitive than others. I know my Zeus is one, he would not thrive in a noisy/busy/stressful household. Could stress be a factor? It is possible that like happened recently on GT, a dog that was returned due to potty/behavior issues is now thriving in the new home.

 

Again, please do not take this the wrong way at all. I was taught early on "there's a perfect home for every greyhound, it just does not have to be my home".

He has so many physical symptoms, I just don't think it's all emotional. Yes, he has some problems there, and I also think it's brain damage from all the high fevers, even prior to him being treated. He is a very simple boy, easily confused. On the other hand, he has the worst ears and staph/sores that show up off and on on his chest and legs. If he's stressed here, he's worse off than we thought...lol. He has free reign of the house, bed, couches, treats, toys, etc. In other words, he's rotten. None of his vets think he's stressed or unhappy, but I guess you never know.

 

I am thinking low dose Doxy may be the way to go.

Edited May 25, 2009 by argolola

[Guest PhillyPups]

Doesn't sound like a low dose of doxy woukd hurt and hopefully it may reslve the problems it does the trick

[Guest argolola]

Has anyone seen the horse on Family Guy? DH and I both looked at each other and said, "That's Rudy!" Poor boy.

 

Thanks for all the input. GTers are the best!

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

I have No Clue and No Advice what it could be. Just give that Boy some Ear Scritches , Hugs and lots of Kisses from me.

 

[ahicks51]

I had a friend- now gone from the long-term effects of Agent Orange- who insisted to his doctor that he did better when given a dose of sulfamethoxazole-trimethoprim (SXT, or Bactrim). This is going back 4 years now, and I can't seem to find it in emails, but he had all sorts of horrible stomach problems that just... disappeared with SXT. Weirdest thing.

 

What is the longest course of doxy he's been on? You say he feels warm when off the doxy; have you ever checked his temperature to see how it varies?

 

Do you have any blood panels, specifically those results concerning inflammation (C-reactive protein and sedimentation rate) that you can share?

 

What is he normally fed when not given Ensure, and what is his stool quality?

 

ETA: Ever had a stool culture done?

Edited May 25, 2009 by ahicks51

[greysmom]

Poor Rudy!

 

I keep hoping that something will turn up! But I agree with the above who suggested just giving him the Doxy. At this point, I would go with whatever works. If you want to see if stress is contributing, you can start off with some OTC products. They don't always work for every dog and you still may get to prescriptions. You can try Benadryl (give him dosage by weight), melatonin, DAP (Dog Appeasing Pheromone), Rescue Remedy (an herbal people anxiety potion which does help my spook).

 

One advantage with these is that the results - whether they're going to work or not - are pretty immediate. Most prescription anti-anxiety meds take a week or more to begin having a prophylactic effect. But if you see some improvement on any of them it may be an indication that a prescription for Clomicalm/Valium/Xanax would be worth a try.

 

Talking about the Benadryl also made me think of allergies. I can't remember if he was allergy tested or not in all of this, but some of the symptoms could point that way - his goopy ears, the red bumps, being better on Doxy, the sores. Maybe trying the Benedryl would be a double good thing.

 

Hugs and kisses for Rudy and for you and your DH (and Lola too!)

chris

[greyhead]

Not only the doxy is a good idea, but B12 injections won't hurt and may help the confusion and "simplicity." As I told you privately, Spencer was chewing wood, and I assumed it was behavioral. I mentioned it to the vet after reading that that can indicate underlying anemia. She tested him and, sure enough, he had malabsorption and consequent inability to process B12 in the gut. He was also acting a bit senile or confused; for instance, he'd seem to forget why he'd gotten up or what to do once he was in the yard! He was also uncharacteristically nervous and grouchy. All of that went away within hours of his first B12 shot. He now gets them weekly and perks up every time!

 

B12 comes cheaply in a bottle, and a nice vet will sell you syringes cheaply too and show you how to simply insert the needle under the skin, with the syringe parallel to the body so ya don't stab him! (I'm speaking to you on the assumption you've never given a subcutaneous injection before. It's really easy; only the idea of it is hard.)

 

You can have the test done if you can afford it and you and the vet feel it necessary. But as I said, B12 hurts nothing. It's water soluble so it doesn't build up in the body. The worst that could happen is that it has no effect.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest argolola]

Great ideas! Please keep them coming!

 

Mary, I did speak to the vet about B-12 and anemia and we are going to test for that when he goes back in 6 weeks. Can I give a B-12 supplement?

 

Benadryl is a great idea! How do I figure the dosage? It won't hurt him? Also, I will try some Rescue Remedy. I had forgotten about that.

 

You are so right about the Bactrim! I take a low dose myself (Mon/Wed/Fri) for 6 months. It was perscribed for underlying UTIs of unknown origin. As far as the testing, I'm not sure what all was done. His poo is well formed and he eats dry mixed with canned with a bit of cheese or yogurt.

 

Thank you all!!!

Edited May 25, 2009 by argolola

[Guest MyCody]

Try writing to Dr. Suzanne Stack, she is amazing. Just Google her name, write to her email address with all the symptoms, and treatments and she will get back to you right away. She is amazing and extremely helpful and most of all, knows her greyhounds!!!!

 

Terry

[Guest kydie]

The little red bumps, sounds like allergies, Bendryl may help with these and anxiety, won't hurt, but if doxy helps go for it, nothing is worth a sick pup, anything that helps

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

Thanks all.

 

We thought thyroid too, but his was fine. He does have slightly low platelets, but greys tend to be lower anyway.

 

Anxiety is something I hadn't thought about. Thank you. He just breaks my heart. I am going to talk to the vet when they open back up. Doxy seems to be his miracle drug.

If you guys are stressed, Rudy will be too as he seems to be a very sensitive guy, and his stress can manifest itself in many different ways with health problems being one if them. If your DH is having a meltdown, Rudy will sense it and not know why Daddy's upset.

 

Chase's stress resulted in staph. When we finally figured out how to make everything right for him, and after Vinnie died, the staph went away. He took wonderful care of Vinnie while he was sick. Chase's first six monts here were tough because of his previous situation and because my boy Vinnie was dying.

 

Dog confusion at our house was because I was /other family members were not being clear with what we wanted. Some of it was caused because the grey boys all came from different homes with different rules and they had to learn the ropes here. I realize Rudy has only been with you, but the humans at our house caused some/most of the confusion because the boys were not sure what message we were sending. And Red's confusion was due partly to lack of sleep/fatigue.

 

I can't remember what his doxy dosage was. Was it high enough to wipe out a TBD? I don't understand why so many vets can't figure out what is going on

 

[greysmom]

The worst thing the Benadryl would do is make him really sleepy - and that sounds like a good thing! Check the label and see what the dosage is for his weight. You might want to start out at 1/2 a dose since you don't know how he's going to respond.

 

I get Rescue Remedy at our local Kroger in the "health and organic" section. It's actually amde for human consumption so if nothing else you can try it out yourself!

 

I don't know the difference between a B-12 shot and supplements (which you can get anywhere). Though again, it can't hurt to try.

 

hugs

chris

[Guest mandm]

It sure doesn't sound behavioral to me. It sounds just like TBD. I'd guess Babesia, on account of where you are. But of course that was everyone's first guess, so you got a tick panel. And did it come back negative or did it come back very low? And did you ever get any PCRs?

 

Seems that we spend a lot of resources looking for weird stuff when it often turns out to be common stuff. I consider TBDs common, for greyhounds at least.

 

There is an oddball TBD, not at all common in greyhounds, that we know. It's called Bartonella, and it may be worth looking into. http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proce...000/PR00142.htm http://ww.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1556&aid=293

 

But, depending on what kind of TBD testing you have done, I wouldn't dismiss the common GH TBDs, Babesia and Ehrlichia as the main suspects.

 

My story may be of interest to you. I adopted my greyhound when he was a little over 2 yrs old. He was sick when I got him. I suspected TBD, Ehrlichia, because of where he had been, and got a tick panel first thing. I had already had one GH with TBD, so I had some experience, not a whole lot. And this new greyhound really seemed to me to be displaying the same things as the other TBD hound. But the TBD panel came back negative. I spent a long time, maybe 6 months, trying to figure out the source of his problems. I was talking with a friend who works in GH adoption and has lots of experience with TBDs. She said that when she strongly suspects TBD, she treats with Imizol, with or without a titer. It's great if you can get proof of disease, she said, but adoption programs don't have lots of money for expensive tests. So she went with her instincts, and they were most always correct. She said that if she were me, she would just treat him with Imizol, which covers both Ehlichia and Babesia. I took her advise and told my vet to treat him. My vet asked that I please do another titer and another platelet count. The titer came back low positive for Babesia and he showed falling platelets. We treated and his symptoms went away.

[greyhead]

I don't know the difference between a B-12 shot and supplements (which you can get anywhere). Though again, it can't hurt to try.

 

Oral B12 is harder to absorb, especially if there has been any stomach/intestine issue, and the pill may basically pass through before much of it is metabolized. B12 by injection acts quickly and efficiently, no matter what the gastrointestinal situation is. And if you do it yourself, it's much cheaper than pills. (A bottle of cobalamin costs about $10 and lasts a really long time, like a year.)

 

BTW, whatever condition leads to the B12-deficiency anemia in the first place, such as intestinal malabsorption of nutrients like our Spencer has, is also likely to render the dog permanently incapable of synthesizing B12 in the gut like they're supposed to. So they can't get it from their food and they can't get it out of a pill. That's the reason for the shots.

 

[Guest eaglflyt]

I know he's been tested for TBD, but there are some that are not routinely tested for in a basic vet TBD testing. Please join the Tick-L list HERE. There are vets on the list that specialize in Tick Borne Diseases and many people with vast experience. They can also direct you in specific testing that may get answers and a specific treatment that will help.

 

There are basic TBDs that are included in standard vet office testing. However, there are many different types and strains that aren't in the routine tests. I doubt it would be any big expense to have a bit more testing done if the experts on the list make suggestions.

 

I'm praying for you, your family and your Rudy. Best wishes.

 

Shelly in OK