Filbert Bitten At Play Group-at Evet Now

[Guest greyfiend]

We have been taking our 6 year old Greyhound to an "Indoor dog park" held weekly at a dog obedience school. All dogs are given a formal assessment by a Certified Pet Dog Trainer to determine their abilities and their play style. All owners must be present with their dogs during the one hour. Filbert has been to this group about 10 times so far and usually just watches from the sidelines or runs back and forth with the dogs but does not make any attempt to make contact (i.e. nip, bump, wrestle) with the other dogs. Filbert was walking alone at the far end of the room and a 2 year old Australian Shepherd came running up from the main group and bit Filbert on his back hip. Filbert yelped and limped away. I went to him and saw a large skin tear and when I looked at the guilty dog he looked at me "hard" eyes and bared his teeth and growled. Now I must say that the dog's owner is a little old lady who constantly yells at her dog and says "NO" a lot to him. We have never once heard her praise her dog. We took Filbert to the back room and bandaged him up and I took him to the emergency vet. They will give him a light sedative, shave and clean the area, stitches and antibiotics. It will take 2-3 hours as they are extremely busy, so I'm waiting at home for their call.

I feel so terrible that I wasn't able to protect my dog. I feel confused as to why a dog would just run up to another dog without provocation and bite it. I took photos of the wound and plan to provide photos, a copy of the vet bill and give it to the dog's owner at next week's event. Is this too much to ask? The bill was $307.65. It's no hardship for us to pay, but it's the principle. The woman drives a new BMW SUV, so I doubt that she's poor. I know that, as things go, this was superficial and that Greyhounds have thin skin, but my dog was hurt by no fault of his own. I will not be taking him to any of these kinds of events again, as it's just not worth it.

 

I'm sitting here crying... We have had Filbert only 9 months. I'm probably more upset than the dog is. We are new dog owners and I am sad, angry and frustrated!

Thanks for listening and please pray that Filbert heals with flying colors.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

Well if you take your dog to a playgroup, of mixed breed with no one muzzled, you are running the risk of injury. Filbert is going to be ok but I know that was a super scary situation for you.

 

You might ask the lady to pay half, but getting it might be more trouble than it's worth.

 

I am of the belief that if an unleashed dog attacks your dog while walking, or what have you, that dog's owner is responsible for your vet bills. If Spud or Sadie got hurt at the all greyhound playdate we go to, I would understand that I should foot the bill.

 

 

Hugs and scritches to Filbert. I'm sure he'll heal just fine

[iluvgreys]

OMG. I'm sorry your pup got bit and is at the e-vets. Does the school have a policy about these kinds of issues? Since the other dog attacked your dog and was unprovoked, I think you're well within the right to ask her to pay the vet bill. I certainly would not return to that group (nor do I take my hounds to dog parks for the same reason). Prayers that your boy heals quickly on all levels.

[Guest KennelMom]

I would ask if their is a policy about these sorts of things. It seems if the business gives a formal eval and their "stamp of approval" on all participants, that they would bear some responsibility. I'd probably just pay the whole bill and never go back.

[Guest doggiehappiness]

Did anyone from the school witness the bite? I'm wondering how this dog does with other dogs (besides Filbert) and if the school reacted to this.

[Guest ArtysPeople]

I'm so sorry to hear this happened! My office looks over a fenced yard that a lot of people use to exercise their dogs off-lead, and I've definitely noticed that a lot of non-greys play a lot harder, with hugely more play-biting, nipping and tackling than greys tend to do. Actually, Filbert sounds like he was acting how a lot of greys act at play dates -- they kind of wander around, sniffing and stuff, and then suddenly someone takes off running and they're all following in a stampeding herd of racing hounds. Maybe he'd prefer a play group with other greys? MerlinsMum started one on meetup.com that has become very popular here in S. Maine -- you could check to see if someone has started one for your area, or if you already know other grey-owners, maybe the school would just let you use the space.

 

I hope Filbert heals up soon, both physically and emotionally/psychologically.

[Hubcitypam]

When Poodle was attacked at the dog park it was an Aussie that started it. The owner came up to me as we were rushing to the vet and said her dog started it. She was a dog prk regulr so I said I'd talk to her later. She never came back.

 

If she would have I'd have been hppy with half. I did assume some risk by taking Poodlum there.

[Guest TBSFlame]

I only take my dogs to a greyhound playgroup where everyone is required to wear a muzzle. And even at playgroup if too many dogs are there I will take mine out. I am very careful where my dogs go. I just don't want them getting hurt.

[Guest Amber]

Can you talk to the event organiser (I presume that there is one, if all dogs have to be evaluated by a trainer before being allowed to join).

 

I think that whoever organises this play group should help you sort out the vet bill thing. Did you have to sign any sort of waiver or anything regarding dog bites? Do you pay to attend the sessions? I guess what I am getting at is - is this playgroup a business or affiliated to a dog training school? If it is a business, then the organiser may have insurance to cover the playgroup...considering how litigious people are in the USA, it would be a bit surprising if a business-type play group didn't have insurance (e.g. if a person got bitten). Or if not, at least they could advise on a reasonable way to proceed with regards to the other owner sharing the vet bill.

 

TBH, even at an organised event, every owner is responsible for his/her own dog - if their dog causes an injury (unprovoked), then I think that person should pay the vet fees. I also think that the Aussie should be removed from the group permanently...even if you don't go back, it may go and bite someone else's dog next time.

 

What did the other dog owners think about it?

[Guest mdituro]

I would check the "park's" policies before presenting the bill to the other dog owner as there may or may not be a disclaimer regarding fights. Sometimes there is language in their policy to the affect that the individual dog owners agree to hold harmless the "park" and/or others. If there is no clear language to that affect, both parties (the park & other owner) could be liable. It may also be to your advantage to find out if the other dog has ever initiated a fight in the past and - definitely - find out if anyone that works there saw the incident that just happened with Filbert and exactly - what - they saw.

 

Regardless of the legalities, once you understand your rights, you should not hesitate to present the other dog owner with a copy of the vet bills. Even if there is a "hold harmless" statement, she may step up & do the right thing. It's worth a try.

 

In the mean time, give yourself & poor Filbert a great big hug! He's going to be just fine and you're doing everything you can for him!

 

 

[GeorgeofNE]

I'd be shocked if you hadn't signed a waiver when you joined.

 

One thing I learned before I even got my Greyhound was that even a normal playful nip (and I'm not suggested that's what happened) can cause a lot of damage--a nip that wouldn't leave a mark on a Lab or a Shepherd can put a Greyhound at the vet for staples.

 

Then one day George slipped on the stairs and fell. I didn't think much of it. When I got him in my condo, I found his skin had split in three places! He didn't even yelp! I mean he just fell down! Amazing, but now I know they weren't kidding me when they said Greyhound skin is like tissue!

[Guest Winterwish]

Oh gosh,I'm sorry that happened! Sending get well wishes to Filbert,and you too,I know it's so upsetting.

 

If anything I'd look to the obedience school to pay the bill.

 

It can happen with any dog,but just to mention,Australian sheperds have the tendendcy to herd,as will border collies,shetland sheepdogs,for ex. One of the ways they do this,is something like what happenedto your sweet boy Filbert,who was just minding his own business,but on the outskirts of the other dogs.

While any dog can bite,it's good to know something about breeds,and what tendencies they have. That can help sometimes to try to judge whether or not a situation will be good for your dog or not,or even who tokeep a special eye on at the park or going out for a walk.

 

 

I hope Filbert is feeling better soon!

Edited April 7, 2008 by Winterwish

[Burpdog]

How is he? Sending healing thoughts and prayers!

 

and when I looked at the guilty dog he looked at me "hard" eyes and bared his teeth and growled

 

This is not a dog that belongs off leash amongst people and dogs.

[Guest greytmonty]

I think the other owner should pay 100% of the bill.

When Monty bit another dog in our playgroup the time we all lost our marbles and left them unmuzzled (which will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER happen again), Monty and Kalli fought for a ball and Monty bit Kalli.

We paid 100% of the evet bill. Even tho' the other owners also unmuzzled, it was our dog who bit.

[Guest greyfiend]

FILBERT UPDATE: Thanks for all the support. Filbert seems "depressed" today. He got 4 stitches and a new "haircut". He is on 750 mg Amoxicillin twice daily for 7 days, and I do 3 warm compresses (for 5 minutes) each day for 5 days. Of course activity is restricted, but he doesn't feel like running in the back yard. Stitches come out in 10-14 days, which I will have his regular vet or tech do. He stayed at DoveLewis animal hospital for 3.5 hours, mostly because they were busy and had more emergent cases, so I went home. They gave him a tranquilizer and pain meds. & numbed up the site, and they said he stood for the procedure. He did, however, eliminate quite a bit of soft stool in his cage-they said it was a typical reaction to the pain meds they gave. They actually refunded me $30 as the initial estimate (which I had to pay up front) was high.

 

Regarding the play group. This is at a business, which does dog obedience classes and "day care"-the class is $10 per session. Yes, all dogs are assessed for temperament and obedience, etc. They have a seperate group called "Rowdy Rovers" for the hard core dogs on a different day. I signed something but did not get a copy. In a few days I will go back to the business and calmly talk to the owner/trainer/group leader. I was so upset last night that I was biting my tongue not to let loose with angry words. I understand that Aussie's are herding dogs, and that they sometimes nip the sheep they are herding, however I think that this dog, ONLY due to his trainer/owner, is not so predictable. After the bite he stood there and when I made eye contact, he bared his teeth and growled at me! He likes to be the "boss" of the group and Filbert ALWAys ignores this dog. When Filbert tries to play with the other dogs of his choosing, it seems like this Aussie runs along and rudely barks and is always being "directed".

 

Lesson Learned: No off lead park of any kind! Only other greys that I know and with muzzle.

Thanks for the support. I'll update in a few days after I talk to the business owner. The dog's owner just said "Sorry".

[Guest mysymba]

Sending Filbert kisses and hugs for mom too....I am super cautious with Symba and don't take him to any kind of dog park, etc either and I feel he isn't missing anything....he gets to a local park with everyone on leashes....well dogs I mean anyway!!! Maybe the people should be too...not a bad idea!..

 

Best wishes for a full recovery....

[Guest KennelMom]

I'd be shocked if you hadn't signed a waiver when you joined.

 

Not all waivers are legal though. They presumably have "expert trainers" who are "expert" at profiling dogs- they even have a separate group for the rowdier players. If they are asking people to trust their judgement on assessing who is and is not a good candidate for off leash, unmuzzled play (and they want to take your $$$$$), then I think they bear the responsibility when their "expert trainer's" opinion is wrong.

 

Just as Filbert's owner trusted their judgement, so did the owner of the other dog who was given their "stamp of approval" that her dog's behavior/temperament was a-ok for play group. It's not like the business said: hey, show up and play at your own risk; this is free-for-all playgroup. THEY assess the dogs. THEY place them in the appropriate play group. THEY should pay the vet bill - or at least a portion of it.

Edited April 7, 2008 by KennelMom

[PatricksMom]

Poor guy, I'm glad he's doing okay.

 

As for the bill, imo the other owner should have offered to pay right away--it's not like they were playing and it was an accident, but I don't know that it's worth pushing--up to you.

[Guest mickie37]

Thanks for listening and please pray that Filbert heals with flying colors.

 

Hi,

Prayers and white light coming Filbert's way. Watch carefully for infection even though he is on antibiotics. Anytime my non greyhounds have been in an altercation if the bite is on any location other than a limb they do not drain well and I have had a fair share of secondary infections.

Filbert will be fine and I hope that you will be OK too. Don't beat yourself up, you were doing a great thing socializing your dog with others.

Happy Tails to You

Mickie

Stacks-Haus Sheep Company

Ohio on the North Coast

 

[Guest Amber]

I'd be shocked if you hadn't signed a waiver when you joined.

 

Not all waivers are legal though. They presumably have "expert trainers" who are "expert" at profiling dogs- they even have a separate group for the rowdier players. If they are asking people to trust their judgement on assessing who is and is not a good candidate for off leash, unmuzzled play (and they want to take your $$$$$), then I think they bear the responsibility when their "expert trainer's" opinion is wrong.

 

Just as Filbert's owner trusted their judgement, so did the owner of the other dog who was given their "stamp of approval" that her dog's behavior/temperament was a-ok for play group. It's not like the business said: hey, show up and play at your own risk; this is free-for-all playgroup. THEY assess the dogs. THEY place them in the appropriate play group. THEY should pay the vet bill - or at least a portion of it.

 

I agree! although in practice, I'm not sure if this will happen. All riding schools for example make you sign a disclaimer saying that you understand horse riding is a dangerous sport and they take no responsibilty for accidents (or something along those lines...). I've also heard of dogs being bitten in training classes here in the UK and there was no comeback from the training school...but might be different in US. It certainly points to the fact that this is not a well-run class/playgroup (didn't the instructor/play group leader show *any* concern at the time he was bitten??).

 

At the very least, I hope they ban the Aussie from playgroup; he will likely bite again. And they will maybe get the other owner to pay and take some responsibilty.

[Guest Greyhoundbaby]

Glad Filbert's doing OK....he'll perk back up as the drugs continue to get out of his system.

[RobinM]

We paid 100% of the evet bill. Even tho' the other owners also unmuzzled, it was our dog who bit.

 

that's because you have class, Karen.

 

Anyway, glad to hear Filbert is home and doing oK. It's normal for them to be a little down after being at the vet. he'll be back to his old self before you know it.

 

Keep us updated.

 

 

[Guest krisandzoo]

Poor Filbert! I hope he heals up quickly.

As far as the vet bill goes I would just pay it myself. It is a risk of taking dogs to anywhere unmuzzled - especially a greyhound. Even though the dogs are evaluated it doesn't mean sometimes they just don't like a certain dog or play goes too far before someone jumps in. Good dogs have bad moments sometimes. I was told Bravo got in a squabble with another grey at the prison. He tried humping the other dog who snapped at him and Bravo apparently gave the guy several stiches. I've never seen this side of him. I think it was just something that should have been stopped before it got so far.

On the flip side I think if I were the other woman I would offer to split the bill. I'd feel guilty about my dogs actions, but considering you should know the risks of being there would feel splitting would be fair.

 

[Guest LindsaySF]

Well if you take your dog to a playgroup, of mixed breed with no one muzzled, you are running the risk of injury. Filbert is going to be ok but I know that was a super scary situation for you.

 

You might ask the lady to pay half, but getting it might be more trouble than it's worth.

 

I am of the belief that if an unleashed dog attacks your dog while walking, or what have you, that dog's owner is responsible for your vet bills. If Spud or Sadie got hurt at the all greyhound playdate we go to, I would understand that I should foot the bill.

I agree. It is a risk you take when you bring a dog to a playgroup.

 

I would at least ask the owners of the school, as they did "assess" the Aussie and allowed him into the playgroup. They might cover some of the cost, they might not.

[Guest greyfiend]

FILBERT UPDATE: I called our vet asking for pain meds. because he was painful. They gave 50 mg tabs of Tramadol -one pill per day for 7 days. They wanted to start out conservatively at first. It is a synthetic opiate. Gave him one with cheese at 2:30 p.m. and it's now 5:30 p.m. and he seems more comfortable and is laying comfortable. However I just noticed him "quivering" like muscle quivering on front legs and chest while laying on his side with the affected side up. I had him stand and walked him over to his regular bed and he's laying in a different position. I thought that was strange, but he seems fine. He ate his dinner completely about an hour ago. I gave him a bit of water with a turkey baster, just little amounts per the vet and he drank well after his dinner. He is urinating, however has not pooped yet since early this morning. I think he had a lot of diarrhea at the evet after the procedure so he may just be empty.

 

As far as the bill, etc. I thought I'd wait a couple of days then go to the dog place and talk with the owner and see what, if any, she thinks my options are. I realize that the bill's already been paid and no way to make anyone reimburse us, it's just the principle. I looked up Aussie info. to try to better understand their traits, and I guess it's considered pretty unacceptable for them to be so aggressive (this dog bared his fangs and growled at me while I was checking out my dog)-I think that this is strange.

 

I think that it is somewhat sad that a dog which is meant for country life and herding has become such a popular "companion" dog for folks in the city who do little or no research on the breed. As I said, the woman who owns him looks like a strong breeze could knock her over and she's a senior, and she constantly yells and scolds her dog. Never once heard her praise the dog. Not a good fit in my humble opinion.

 

Well, he's due for his antibiotics, so later. Thanks for letting me get this out.