Sprite - Elbow Again. Advice On A Procedure

[GreyWrangler]

Sprite, who will be 14 this Sunday, Nov 4, had her third surgery on her elbow to remove tumors. They come back

as a mixed bag, some soft tissue sarcoma, spindle cell something or other and another kind. I will have to get a c

opy of the report.

 

But that is not what I am writing about.

 

There was not enough skin left after this surgery to close the wound, and any wound involving a joint is difficult to

heal. She has been in a full leg splint/cast for three weeks so she cannot bend the elbow. It is amazing just how

well she gets around.

 

But now the doc wants to do surgery to graft the site. She wants to do one that creates a pocket under the healthy

skin along her chest wall, tuck the elbow in and bandage whole leg to her chest. Leaving her a tripod for possibly

two weeks, then a smaller surgery to detach it and leave her a healthy graft over/covering the elbow.

 

Otherwise it will be twice weekly bandage changes for months as it granulates in.

 

I need thoughts on this.

 

We do have an okay set up for her recovery here. Only a small step down to a deck with trek planking (plastic

wood composite) and can get some type of carpeting for said deck to minimize the slipping.

 

But daytime care are my parents, both in their 70's and my dad has mobility/balance problems, and Mom has early

stage Alzheimer's. I work full time away from home

 

Thank you.

Edited November 10, 2007 by GreyWrangler

[GreyWrangler]

 

Sprite, Saturday night.

 

 

[Guest MomofSweetPotatoes]

Oh man Nancy, I have no idea. Poor Sprite.

 

She's such a saucy little dame. If you need day care for her, you know I can take her during the day, and return her to you at night. She and Penny can exchange notes.

[phall]

Oh Nancy,

 

Poor Sprite. This has to be such a hard decision for you. Knowing Sprite and how good she seems in all other aspects it may be worth doing for her. Questions, though, that came to mind - did the vet have any idea on how he would expect her to react to the surgery, i.e. could it be a longer recovery than expected, very painful, etc. This surgery wouldn't be effective in slowing the tumor growth, it's to help close the surgery site, right? I know from your posts that the tumors do grow back. Did the vet know how long it could be before the tumors come back again? Do you think Sprite would do okay being a temporary tripod?

 

I'm sure these are all questions you've thought of yourself - I'm just thinking out loud here. From the last time I saw her, Sprite seems to take things in stride and handles whatever comes her way.

Sprite's name fits her so well - she's such a little "sprite". You're in my thoughts as you go through this, Nancy.

 

Pat

[jamngrey]

I wish i had some advice but do wish you well

[pabozem]

Nancy, a friend of mine had something like this with one of her greys. I asked her if she had any pearls of wisdom for you, and this is what she wrote:

 

My beautigul girl Dixie had, what sounds like, the same problem as Sprite. Our vet sent us to a vet specializing in surgery. She had her first surgery done 3 yrs ago and the tumor was too large to approximate the skin so they did a skin graft. Hers was done from a graft above the elbow. Dr. made a pocket under the graft and then brought the skin down to cover the wound and it was never separated from the body. There was plenty of skin to approximate the skin above the elbow. She was wrapped with padding and vet wrap and laid around most of the time with it. The next problem we had was that at one of the dressing changes, the dr wrapped it too tight and then we ended up with a pressure ulcer, on the point of the elbow. It hurt her so badly and I was so mad at him. At this point in time, I took her to my regular vet and we worked together with Dixie to heal her. I made a donut shaped foam piece to fit around the elbow point and wrapped it everyday myself. It took 3 months to heal. Then this year, she developed another tumor near the same site. Our vet was able to remove it and thank God there was enough skin to suture together but the sample came back as sarcoma also, with a lot of other words. She wasn't able to remove all of the tumor so we just were watching for any more signs.

Dixie also had terrible teeth problems and when she was having her dental done last month, she died on the table. We sure miss our beautiful baby girl but she is at the Bridge waiting for us.

 

I would not be afraid to have a second opinion on this. With your Sprite being 14, I would think her age would enter in to how she will do with such a tremendous surgery. I am also wondering....has Sprite's cast not been off for 3 weeks? And is the wound open under it? Dixie's elbow, even though she had skin from above the leg, was always very thin after she healed. I made her a leg cover with fleece that she wore to protect it. I wish you and Sprite well and I know how difficult it is to have our wonderful kids to have to go through this ordeal.

 

Hugs to you and Sprite

 

Mary

 

 

 

This is my grey, Heaven. She had a puncture wound on her shoulder, which she would not leave alone. Mary made this fleece sleeve for me. I took some layers of batting and sewed this on the inside where her wound was. Maybe something like this would work for Sprite after she gets her cast off.

[Greytlady94]

How large is the open area? After my heart girl Molly had her second tumor surgery on her leg she was left with a large open wound. We used Facilitator on the wound and kept it covered and it was amazing how quicky it granulated.

[GreyWrangler]

Sprite has had tumor growth on her shoulder too, so taking skin already known to have some tumor cells not best thing fo her, SO that is why they want to use the chest wall.

 

She lost most of her teeth when she was ten, they were just so bad despite years of cleanings and antibiotics. Best thing we did for her. She felt so much better without those things. lol.

 

That sleeve looks nifty.

 

Nancy

 

 

Nancy, a friend of mine had something like this with one of her greys. I asked her if she had any pearls of wisdom for you, and this is what she wrote:

 

My beautigul girl Dixie had, what sounds like, the same problem as Sprite. Our vet sent us to a vet specializing in surgery. She had her first surgery done 3 yrs ago and the tumor was too large to approximate the skin so they did a skin graft. Hers was done from a graft above the elbow. Dr. made a pocket under the graft and then brought the skin down to cover the wound and it was never separated from the body. There was plenty of skin to approximate the skin above the elbow. She was wrapped with padding and vet wrap and laid around most of the time with it. The next problem we had was that at one of the dressing changes, the dr wrapped it too tight and then we ended up with a pressure ulcer, on the point of the elbow. It hurt her so badly and I was so mad at him. At this point in time, I took her to my regular vet and we worked together with Dixie to heal her. I made a donut shaped foam piece to fit around the elbow point and wrapped it everyday myself. It took 3 months to heal. Then this year, she developed another tumor near the same site. Our vet was able to remove it and thank God there was enough skin to suture together but the sample came back as sarcoma also, with a lot of other words. She wasn't able to remove all of the tumor so we just were watching for any more signs.

Dixie also had terrible teeth problems and when she was having her dental done last month, she died on the table. We sure miss our beautiful baby girl but she is at the Bridge waiting for us.

 

I would not be afraid to have a second opinion on this. With your Sprite being 14, I would think her age would enter in to how she will do with such a tremendous surgery. I am also wondering....has Sprite's cast not been off for 3 weeks? And is the wound open under it? Dixie's elbow, even though she had skin from above the leg, was always very thin after she healed. I made her a leg cover with fleece that she wore to protect it. I wish you and Sprite well and I know how difficult it is to have our wonderful kids to have to go through this ordeal.

 

Hugs to you and Sprite

 

Mary

 

 

 

This is my grey, Heaven. She had a puncture wound on her shoulder, which she would not leave alone. Mary made this fleece sleeve for me. I took some layers of batting and sewed this on the inside where her wound was. Maybe something like this would work for Sprite after she gets her cast off.

Edited October 31, 2007 by GreyWrangler

[GreyWrangler]

this picture of her elbow as of today's bandgae change. I have more but they are to large to upload.

 

I think this is very graphic, not at all what I expected.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest trevdog]

Oh my! You will have to give some serious thought to this, are there any other options besides a graft?

[Guest Tenderhearts]

I don't have any experience with an open wound that large on a dog's leg actually granulating.

 

I have no idea how long it would take, or if her age would factor into that length of time

 

The surgery isn't something I'd take lightly for sure, which you aren't.

 

I just don't know what to suggest in that case. :grouphug

[ZoomDoggy]

Oh... oh poor baby! I wish I had good advice for you... How is her overall health? Is the anesthesia risk worth the additional surgery? If she has good health otherwise, then perhaps yes...?

 

I'm so sorry you and beautiful little Sprite are going through this.

Edited November 10, 2007 by ZoomDoggy

[Guest MomofSweetPotatoes]

Poor Miss Sprite.

[Guest longdogs]

I'm no expert but I believe it will granulate in time and I'd have less confidence in a successful graft for such a large and awkward wound. I wish you and Sprite good luck.

[Burpdog]

Email Marilyn. She had a dog with a similar problem due to an injury.

 

There is another girl with a similar problem that they did heal without surgery but she stayed at the specialist for a week.

 

However, both these guys mentioned above are young dogs.

 

Thinking out loud, having had quite a few 14 yr olds as you know. I can't see her a tripod for several weeks. Is there no other option with the flap surgery? What are they advising using to granulate?

 

 

[Guest greytexplorer]

What about artificial skin graft material? Has that been mentioned to you as an option?

[Guest LynnM]

Grafting almost certainly won't work... seen it tried too many times.

 

That leaves that old school, slow and steady route: rinse with tepid water once to twice per day, apply dilute Betadine (diluted to the color of iced tea), apply Cut Heal or Granulex, and more than likely oral antibiotics (something like Clindamycin or Cephalexin- talk to your vet). As long as it's at least staying the same and not getting worse, then you're doing fine. Progress will be slow. Extremely, almost imperceptibly slow. More than likely 9 months to a year, but that's still faster than never. You can cover it loosely (like with a sleeve as in that picture or a loose T-shirt), but that's more for the sake of your furniture/bedding/dog beds than for any medical reason. As long as what she's laying on is relatively clean, it can stay uncovered. Bandaging isn't going to do anything for it and can make things worse if it's not bandaged properly.

 

Given her age and that the wound, while awful *looking*, isn't terribly painful, AND a regimen of rinsing and applying Betadine, etc, is also non-painful (it doesn't sting), I'd tend towards this route anyway, rather than further surgery. If carefully managed, even if it never completely heals, it's a wound she can live with.

 

Has the ulcerated area been re-biopsied? There is also the ugly possibility that the tumor is regenerating. Best to find out before making any decisions.

 

Lynn

Edited November 10, 2007 by LynnM

[Guest RooRoo]

Oh Sprite... you are such a good girl. No advice but lots and lots of healing thoughts to you both.

 

 

[Guest JenFallon]

Aw Sprite. Gosh she's such a tough little thing .

[Guest meakah]

Shucks....wrote a long post last night and then hit send right when GT went into its nightly zone out stage. Grr. Anyhoot, what I wrote was something along the lines of....if it were me, I wouldn't opt for the 2nd surgery. As bad as it looks, it isn't 'that' bad and surgery may not go over well. Due to her age, I would be reluctant to make her a tripod for so long....that could be way harder on her than allowing it to slowly heal over time. I think using something like the fleece legging posted earlier is a good idea. Cleaning the wound daily with Betadine and applying an agent that won't let it dry out would be my course of action. It will take a while...months....but all in all it looks worse than it really is.

[Guest tallyyo]

I will ask my holistic vet out here in Michigan if she has any ideas. She has all sorts of herbal remedies that have worked wonders on my greyhound "Monty" + she gives him a free chiropractic adjustment when she is here to work on my horses (she has never had the opportunity to work with greys but some of her ideas have been awesome for his intestinal problems as well as his ear infections). I will also be in Attleboro for a week starting this Friday, if you need a babysitter for Sprite!

[gracegirl]

We had a horse at the barn get into a tiff with a nasty mare (they don't call her psycho Libby for nothing!) and he looked terrible! The owner of the barn had some vet prescribed "stuff" on hand, it was the consistency of a thick creme, but clear-ish like neosporin, it may have had a yellow tint, I can't remember now! It came in a jar with a screw lid. Anyhow, I saw Dent, the horse, about three weeks after he had this run in and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked. I have no idea what it was that was used, but it was truly incredible. If anyone knows what it might have been, please post. It may do the trick for you!

 

And what LynnM said sounds good too!

Edited November 11, 2007 by gracegirl

[JenniferS]

We had a horse at the barn get into a tiff with a nasty mare (they don't call her psycho Libby for nothing!) and he looked terrible! The owner of the barn had some vet prescribed "stuff" on hand, it was the consistency of a thick creme, but clear-ish like neosporin, it may have had a yellow tint, I can't remember now! It came in a jar with a screw lid. Anyhow, I saw Dent, the horse, about three weeks after he had this run in and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked. I have no idea what it was that was used, but it was truly incredible. If anyone knows what it might have been, please post. It may do the trick for you!

 

And what LynnM said sounds good too!

Are you talking about Fur-a-zone Dressing by any chance?

 

Sending Sprite good thoughts!

[gracegirl]

We had a horse at the barn get into a tiff with a nasty mare (they don't call her psycho Libby for nothing!) and he looked terrible! The owner of the barn had some vet prescribed "stuff" on hand, it was the consistency of a thick creme, but clear-ish like neosporin, it may have had a yellow tint, I can't remember now! It came in a jar with a screw lid. Anyhow, I saw Dent, the horse, about three weeks after he had this run in and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked. I have no idea what it was that was used, but it was truly incredible. If anyone knows what it might have been, please post. It may do the trick for you!

 

And what LynnM said sounds good too!

Are you talking about Fur-a-zone Dressing by any chance?

 

Sending Sprite good thoughts!

I think that's it. One site I googled said it's for dogs and horses, the other site said it's approved for horses only. I thought you needed a script for it, but it appears you can purchase it through the websites. Worth asking the vet about though, that stuff worked wonders on Dent!

[Guest meakah]

We had a horse at the barn get into a tiff with a nasty mare (they don't call her psycho Libby for nothing!) and he looked terrible! The owner of the barn had some vet prescribed "stuff" on hand, it was the consistency of a thick creme, but clear-ish like neosporin, it may have had a yellow tint, I can't remember now! It came in a jar with a screw lid. Anyhow, I saw Dent, the horse, about three weeks after he had this run in and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked. I have no idea what it was that was used, but it was truly incredible. If anyone knows what it might have been, please post. It may do the trick for you!

 

And what LynnM said sounds good too!

Are you talking about Fur-a-zone Dressing by any chance?

 

Sending Sprite good thoughts!

I think that's it. One site I googled said it's for dogs and horses, the other site said it's approved for horses only. I thought you needed a script for it, but it appears you can purchase it through the websites. Worth asking the vet about though, that stuff worked wonders on Dent!

It does sound like you are thinking of Furacin. It should be noted though that it is only good during the early early stages and should not be used for a lengthy time due to encouraging the growth of proud flesh.