ahicks51

If he'll eat it, make it homogeneous. Food processor, mashing, thorough mixing, whatever. The Nature's Variety Lamb Raw looks interesting. If he won't eat the medallions, you might try giving them a quick toast in the pan. (Oy! The things we do for our dogs...)

That's a good point, about the number of ingredients. As for the timing- as little as 2 hours, depending upon the D. Oy vey.

Here's an interesting experiment for you. Apple peels are loaded with amylopectin- a polymeric form of starch. Bananas, on the other hand, are very starchy; it's the last few days of ripening that move the starches into sugars- but there is still starch left. Try going a week with no unpeeled apple pieces, and no banana. See if the stools improve. If not, I'm totally wrong.

There's another way of looking at this; starch is clearly a problem (and a pervasive one). Carbohydrate restriction alone may be enough. Let's say- for the purposes of discussion- that we want to explore that route. For the purposes of managing IBD, Crohn's, and ulcerative colitis, Lutz (for human purposes) sets a limit of 72 grams of carbs per day. At 4 calories per gram, that's 288 calories from carbs. So, for a person who consumes 2000 calories/day, that's 14.4% of daily calories. For someone at 1600 calories/day, that's 18% of calories. The (sample-sized) bag of Orijen that I have handy puts its total calories from carbs at 18%, so that's in the zone. It does have potato, but- we can hope- due to the processing involved that it's been "de-branched" enough to reduce its palatbility to gut organisms, or that it's low enough in carbs to excuse that indiscretion. As for the KrunCheros- the only thing I could ding them for is having more veggies and fruits than I'd like to see. Fat and protein are in the same range as Orijen, but seeing a product with no grain OR potato is good. Rubicon uses tapioca- a starchy root that is contraindicated. It doesn't specify quantities, unfortunately. Ditto with jicama and yams. They take out potato, and replace with other starchy roots. Otherwise OK. The Ziwi Peak (gah! the price!) is superb. As it's a dried food, it may be more economical than it appears to be superficially. The Evangers (thanks! didn't even know about that brand!) is remarkable. I didn't check all their ingredients, but from the ones I checked- wow. That's tough to beat. The Evo Canned looks good, but the carrageenan is worrying. It's one of those polymeric carbohydrates that has proven to be hard on some people who are on carbohydrate restriction for Crohn's. There may not be enough in there- it's tough to say. The bottom line: So- from this, you could start with Orijen, alone or with amendments; if you can mix in something like the canned Evangers or some home-cooked meat (even hamburger) or raw/cooked eggs to drop the carbohydrate concentration even lower, that could very well be the fix, or really push back the symptoms to the point where it's manageable, and do it at a reasonable price. In effect, the more you dilute its 18% of calories from carbs with meat, bone, and organ tissue, the lower-carb it'll be. That *may* equate into better results. Supplements: I personally take Enzymedica's "Acid Soothe" if I am going to consume a meal with starch (mainly rice- I have found I can tolerate that). Designed for heartburn, it contains some enzymes that help bust up carbohydrates. Half a capsule mixed in with each meal *might* make a difference. I don't put any money on that. I also take 1500 mg/day of pantothenic acid (vitamin B5), a 500 mg capsule with each meal; again, you could get away with 300 mg capsules with each meal, or half of a 500 mg/capsule per meal- it's not toxic even in substantially larger doses. I have found I function substantially better on days when I remember to take this. Other Crohnies report similar. Probiotics: I eat huge amounts of home-made yogurt; there are data to support the notion that many organisms (NOT bifidobacteria) strongly help the gut of people with IBD/IBS/Crohn's, etc. through the same mechanism as TNF inhibitors, but without the injections. I have no idea how this translates into doggie supplements, given the differences in biology and wouldn't begin to make a recommendation other than to try them once you have a "baseline" of stability. Intestinal disorders do not lend themselves well to empirical observation; it's best to try one thing and stick to it without jumping around. Once things look stable (or, if they're not stable, if things simply haven't changed for the better after days/weeks), try a change.

There's one other thing to look at. Magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker. It is inexpensive and (when provided in the correct form) will not cause D. Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) WILL cause D, so they are not to be fed. Magnesium malate (or other chelated forms of magnesium) are suitable. I don't know about any interactions with the existing meds, but the stuff works. There is a large body of literature on the subject.

A quick look at the ingredients shows that Before Grain by Merrick would be a good choice for a trial run; although it still has quite a bit of carbohydrate in it, if grain is at the root of the problem (not just starch), then that would be a good starting place. If there's improvement but not total control between that and meds, then you might step it up a notch to raw or homecooked, no carbs.

If the gut of an animal is damaged, throwing B12 (or any other vitamin) down their throat does not serve to maximize absorption. But if it's injected, it is available immediately. There is also supposedly a transdermal version of B12, but then you'd need to find some relatively hairless part of the body- perhaps the groinular region- in which to apply it. Not sure if it even works; B12 is such a large molecule, I have trouble believing it can be absorbed in that fashion. There may be more than one route to getting where you want to be. Because the idiosyncrasies of various gastric disorders are so cryptic, all sorts of whackos (myself included) will come out of the woodwork with things for you to try. Almost certainly, your solution will be a combination of meds, supplements, and diet. What we- the collective whackos- have done is provide you with things that have worked under our circumstances, and give you some suggestions that you can mull over with your vet.

My recommendations: no starch, which (for the canine) usually means "low carb," which in turn translates into either home-cooked or raw food. I tried budesonide (Entocort) for 3-4 weeks; by that point in time, I had removed starch from my diet and was already feeling well enough that its side effects didn't merit staying on the drug. It can be well-tolerated by some, and if it does well for you- great. Typically, this sort of thing is managed (in the human) with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories, disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs (DMARDs), steroids, and tumor necrosis factor (TNF) drugs. All of these- except the TNF drugs- are used in the canine; TNF drugs are simply astronomically expensive, so they are not employed in the veterinary realm. Each one of these drugs comes back to the management of one thing: chronic inflammation, presumably caused by colonization of the gut by a nasty little bugger called Klebsiella pneumoniae. Some of the enzymes it puts off are structural mimics of collagen, and- as a result- the body starts attacking its own collagen as well as the enzymes. This is why folks with Crohn's tend to get rheumatoid arthritis and back pain, too- the collagen in the joints is attacked. Indeed, ankylosing spondylitis is also caused by Kp; the only difference between that and Crohn's is whether the individual has a certain gene (HLA-B27). The key to beating this- if Kp really is at the root of canine IBD/PLE/Crohn's- is to getting the starch out. Unfortunately, I don't know of any canned or bagged foods like this; perhaps someone else does. If you have a good butcher shop that can get in cases of chicken necks, chicken frames, beef heart, etc., it can actually be less expensive to feed raw food than kibble. While ultimately it may not be cheap (depending upon your location), if you're fortunate and such dietary management works, you will ultimately save money by being able to cut back (or possibly even cut out) the meds they would otherwise have to take.

Take the starch out. Absolutely no starch, which means NO grains, and NO potato. In humans, there is a time about 3 months into this diet where things get substantially worse- mucus and blood for many. No idea at what point that happens in the canine, if it happens at all. It's largely thought to be some sort of bacterial die-off (it's also seen in humans who undertake a low-carb diet for weight or health reasons, oddly enough). Improvement is seen in another 3 months (again, in the human), followed by symptoms going away in another 6-18 months, depending upon how soon the disease was caught. If your vet doesn't believe this, but thinks it's a form of "doggie Crohn's," ask if he'd be willing to look at some stuff from the refereed literature that I have as .pdfs.

Can you give aspirin to dogs to prevent/treat strokes?

For the regular maintenance (nails and teeth), we start with Minerva. I hold the nail clippers up, and she lies down and rolls over. It's pretty much the only command she knows. Then we do nails and teeth. With teeth, we let them sniff the cap of the toothpaste; the flavor must be something else. I sit down with a coffee mug with water and a child's toothbrush, "Soft" or "Extra Soft" or whatever it's called. Dip the brush in the water, smear on some paste, and I usually start with the rear teeth. I stick my finger in there, pulling the cheek away, and just go to town, getting whatever I can get done as they try to lick off the paste. I dunk-wash the brush as needed and apply more if required, and move on to the next dog. Once everything is done, all the dogs get their favorite treat- a fish oil capsule (Kirkland's brand). While some aren't necessarily eager, they all submit. I feel bad for those folks that have dogs that balk and howl at the prospect of a nail clipping. We've been fortunate not to have any of those yet.

Here's a longshot, purely anecdotal stuff. Some raw food advocates walk the line between wacko and science- some of it is superficially pretty weird stuff. But how many stories are out there- pure anecdotes, I know- where dogs that were decidedly "too far gone" or only had months to live that- much to the surprise of whomever "inherited" them from owners that gave up- did so much better on raw food? Or a homecooked diet? I'm not saying it's a panacea, I'm not even saying for sure it'll work. But if it *is* PLE, getting the starch out of the diet might be enough to do it if it hasn't advanced too far. No wheat, no rice, no corn- just meat, eggs, and other animal protein.

If it is PLE, then you might want to read a post I made on the subject some weeks back. http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?s=&amp...t&p=3742778 I hope in the not-too-distant future to have equipment to test for antibodies to Klebsiella (and possibly pullulanase) such that individuals who are interested might be able to send me blood serum samples for diagnostic purposes. While there will still be the matter of treatment, a correlation between antibodies to klebsiella and/or pullulanase might be useful in terms of diagnosis. My only clear-cut recommendation would be to feed foods with as little starch as possible.

We can see it in all the hounds here. And with Minerva, her hipbones are so prominent, you could shave with 'em. Our most recent foster is the same way- he's pretty underweight, and nothing seems to "stick" to him.

For how long? Will it arrive in time? What if it gets held up in customs- or discarded entirely? Zeniquin is in the fluoroquinolone class of antibiotics. This includes much more readily available antibiotics, namely Cipro (ciprofloxacin), and (as the Merck Veterinary Manual advises) a whole lot of other drugs from the superclass of quinolones: Enrofloxacin, norfloxacin, ciprofloxacin, orbifloxacin, pefloxacin, danofloxacin, difloxacin, marbofloxacin, rosoxacin, acrosoxacin, oxolinic acid. If your veterinarian has not done any specific testing to determine susceptibility to Zeniquin (marbofloxacin), perhaps you could inquire as to whether another, more affordable fluoroquinolone antibiotic might be prescribed instead. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing "magic" about Zeniquin. You would know if your vet did specific testing in that it would have to be sent out to a lab for culture and sensitivity testing, which would take at least 24-72 hours. If you were given the prescription the same day you came in, you might inquire about other meds from the same class of drugs.

A quick stroll through PubMed.gov doesn't give any good hits for any studies that have shown cancer links to rabies vaccination. I'd ask for specifics.

Take a good photo of it now, and compare every couple of weeks or monthly. But, yeah- no reason to jump into it.

Probably not. MSDS is here: http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/msds_us/DC.pdf "Ingestion effects: Ingestion of large quantities may result in headache, dizziness or sedation based on components." Ingredients: Benzoic Acid* 65-85-0 Proprietary Malic acid* 6915-15-7 Proprietary Methylparaben 99-76-3 Proprietary Propylene glycol 57-55-6 Proprietary Propylparaben 94-13-3 Proprietary Salicylic Acid* 69-72-2 Proprietary Stearyl Alcohol 112-92-5 Proprietary Steareth-2 CFTA 9005-00-9 Proprietary Steareth-21 CFTA 9005-00-9 Proprietary Xantan gum, Ph. Eur. 11138-66-2 Proprietary For first aid, it DOES say: "Ingestion: Get medical attention. Do not induce vomiting unless directed by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person." But they have to say that for everything. An MSDS won't say, "Consume! Don't call a doctor. Have a nice day." Under toxicological, it says: "Ingestion: Not determined for this mixture. The estimated LD50 in rats is greater than 2000 mg/kg based on toxicity of components and concentrations present." Table salt is around 2000 to 3000 mg/kg, so I think you're pretty safe there.

If you've not already, try bandaging the paws and covering with baby socks. Secure the top with a bit of tape near top of the sock, and then fold the edge down over it so they can't remove it. And bed rest. Hopefully he'll stay off his feet as much as he can!

Good to hear about Spencer. Out of curiosity, which vet did you use?

I need blood samples. I'd like to look for antibodies to klebsiella, and possibly pullulanase. I'm wondering if they can be found; there have been enough people who have posted here about problems that I think I could get a handful of samples- and if the work is done correctly, I might be able to catch the attention of someone who might be interested.

The local "go-to" greyhound vet here in Phoenix doesn't like to do front leg amps at all.

Hi there! I am planning some experiments, and I could use some help from the Teeming Millions. Specifically, I may be able to run some tests in the not too distant future, and it looks like I could use some help from the folks who have hounds with SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) or PLE (protein losing enteropathy). So- if any of y'all have hounds with this condition, please drop me a PM. Thanks!

Every now and again, we'll get the GSOD out of some pup that's managed to get a paw tangled up in a fleece spread or something, and once the ol' blood pressure comes back from the stratospheric range they just go back to sleeping like nothing happened.

Ditto. Put the sock on, then run a piece of tape around it near the top. Then fold the top of the sock back down over the tape (or vet wrap) so they can't get to it!