KF_in_Georgia

Thanks for that. I've worried because all I know about acetaminophen is that "you don't ever give it to dogs because it's bad for their liver." I have no idea how much it takes to be "bad." I'm also relieved that I've only been giving her half what the vet authorized. I gave her a whole pill the first night, but she's only had one pill a day--half at each meal--since then.

She had a cup of kibble about 6pm. I just gave her another cup and a half a few minutes ago. (She's been safe with a cup and a half, lately, and two cups was enough to make her vomit. This will be two and a half cups in a short time.) We'll see if it stays down overnight. Some of her vomiting was 10 hours or more after mealtime. Depending on how reasonable and sane I can manage to be tomorrow afternoon, I might suggest that current vet owes us a free set of lab work with liver values. (On the other hand, I may be "shaking the dust of the place off my shoes.") And I need to call around and find another vet. There's SEGA's regular vet, but he's hard to get in to see (he runs two clinics) and he's about an hour away. I might start with him short-term until I find someone closer. Among other things, I want to know if there are supplements or something I can give her by way of apologizing to her poor, abused liver, and Dr Carmichael would be reliable about that info. And I just thought of someone else I can call for a referral. Meanwhile, Jane's acting a little offended. She's not being spoiled with sympathy by me keeping the boy from bothering her (she had to share a pillow with him this afternoon) and me being all sympathy-voiced when I talk to her. "Q! Leave your sister alone! She doesn't feel good." (Of course she doesn't feel good. She ate a friggin' sock!) You don't want to know what a rosy pinky-red sock looks like, coming back up after a month in her gut. It seriously looked like a chunk of angry, outraged animal tissue being barfed up, only girls don't have tissue that shape and that length. And then I realized what it was and started swearing at the vet. And Jane wanted to eat the sock again. Tomorrow I strip everything out of the crates of both dogs, do laundry, and put only safe things back inside. (Tonight, the dogs are safe. They won't leave my side.) This morning, I gave Q his Interceptor tablet, and I cold-bloodedly did not give Jane one on the grounds that she wouldn't be around long enough to need it. This afternoon, as soon as I got off the phone with the current vet's office, setting up an appointment for an ultrasound, I gave Jane her Interceptor. Keeping my head on straight...

I cannot tell you how massively furious I am right now. When Jane started getting sick, you guys know one possibility was that she had something on her stomach--something she'd eaten that she shouldn't have had. Maybe from her previous home, but possibly not. She's never been a sneak-chewer here, but who knows. So we did an ultrasound on the 12th--which was supposed to tell us whether she had something in her stomach that shouldn't have been there--and her vet diagnosed cancer. And she's taken a total of 13.5 Tylenol 4 tablets since then, which a healthy dog should never have had. She just threw up a sock. Not a full ankle sock. Just the kind that covers your foot and barely rises higher than the top of your shoe. The kind I wear. It's pinkish red, which means it could easily be mine. Mine are never matched--I gave up on that years ago--so looking for a mate won't tell us anything useful--like how long ago she swallowed it. (My best guess is New Year's Day. I was gone much of the day and she was crated, but if she'd tucked a sock in the crate... The first vomiting was early on January 2nd.) So--does Jane have cancer? And just coincidentally had a sock in her gut? Or has my vet of 15 years (and his staff ultrasound person) completely blown the diagnosis, and compounded that by prescribing meds Jane absolutely never should have taken? Dear god, I was ready to put her to sleep on the 19th, and I've been compromising her liver with these meds ever since! I'm taking her in to see him tomorrow. I want another ultrasound. I want to know if they're seeing the same things now that they saw on the 12th (give or take a sock). Either way, Jane will no longer be a patient there (neither will Q). Tonight, I'm going to give her extra food--an amount that would have made her throw up in the days when it had to share stomach space with a sock. I'm not going to give her the Tylenol 4. (I just refilled the damned prescription today.). If the food she has tonight makes her vomit, we'll see another vet. Actually, we'll see another vet anyway to talk about the impact of the Tylenol. And if the vet's ultrasound person says they see something wrong tomorrow, we'll get a new ultrasound with the new vet and start from scratch. (There are other vets available at this practice, but I'm not willing to deal with the awkwardness of running into our current vet during visits, and I'd never trust an ultrasound at this place.) I've been thinking of my other dogs. When Oreo and Jacey died, they were at the ER and it had nothing to do with the current vet or his practice. We put Sam to sleep at the current vet's, but that was my decision; the old boy was ready to go. With Tigger, the fill-in vet missed osteo on his x-ray; my regular vet said he looked at it afterward and didn't see the cancer, but we saw it on new x-rays at the ER three days later. At least, if they misdiagnosed that one, they didn't cause any actual harm (beyond some unnecessary trauma for Tigger and some extra vet bills; but if they'd said cancer and we'd put him to sleep then, I'd certainly be second guessing that decision now). We put Silver to sleep after an ultrasound, but that wasn't the practice's ultrasound person; it was a specialist. And we only did the ultrasound because Silver's lab numbers were awful. The day we put her to sleep, she was in a lot of pain and clearly in trouble, and we had knowledge to go on from outside the practice so that--although I'm still missing her a lot--I'm not second guessing that one. But I'm starting to think I've been very lucky. Vet appointment Thursday at 5pm.

Jane (top) and Q. My living room is Slumberballs, pillows, and blankets.

This discussion has come up before, and often people resurrect this famous video:

I called Jane's vet today to cancel our appointment for euthanasia tomorrow. The Tylenol 4 has been a wonderful choice for her. I can't imagine that she'd be doing as well on something like Tramadol. She's actually bouncing around--when she's awake. (The weather has been warmer, and it's sunny after the weekend storms.) She's still eating eagerly, and there's been just one episode of vomiting (soggy kibble coming back 14 hours after mealtime). After the first night on the Tylenol 4--when I gave her a whole pill and she slept 14 hours--I've given her a half pill twice a day. Meals are at least 12 hours apart, but sometimes more like 13 or 14 hours, depending on when we all wake up, and I've given up trying to decide whether we're having dinner or breakfast. This morning, it was at 10:30--brunch? There has been only one episode of panting from pain. It was getting near mealtime, so I went ahead and fed her. And she hasn't had a problem keeping down the pills. I have greyhound stuff to go to with Q on Friday and Saturday mornings, and that'll be the first time Jane will be left home alone since this all started. I'm hoping she'll just sleep through our absence. I know the Tylenol 4 reprieve won't last forever, but I'm grateful she's still here and feeling good. Tomorrow--the date I thought we'd have to euthanize her--will be the 12-week anniversary of her arrival here.

We went back to the vet's yesterday. Jane's been panting a lot, and the vet agreed that she's grown much more painful in just a week. She's been eating well, and she put back the weight she lost, but she's moving slower. She's also not sleeping well: often, she's lying there, watching me, but perhaps not comfortable enough to sleep. I asked my vet what he would do, and he said there are two options at this point: put her to sleep now, or start her on pain meds to give her more time. She's still enjoying meals and cuddles and wagging her tail, so I opted for pain meds. I also made a last appointment for us next Thursday--to make sure I don't let this drag on until she loses all the things she loves. Frankly, I think we might not have that long. (When we put Silver to sleep in October, she was very uncomfortable. In her case, we were hoping we'd be able to deal with a growth on her side but then discovered she had a large growth on her heart that had sprung up in just three weeks. We put her to sleep the same day as the ultrasound. I'm determined not to let Jane get that uncomfortable--especially since she won't get better.) The vet put Jane on Tylenol 4 (codeine). (He's not a fan of tramadol for serious pain; by the time you get a high enough dosage, there are other, unwanted reactions.) He prescribed one-half to one tablet, twice a day for pain; we've stopped the other meds except for the Pepcid. I gave her a whole pain tablet last night (after dinner) at 8pm because I wanted her to get a good night's sleep. She was out for about 14 hours, getting up and turning around to lie down again twice in the night. This morning, she's peed, had breakfast followed by half a pain pill, and she's sleeping with her head against my thigh. (Note to self: Take her out to pee right after you give her a pain pill, because once the pill hits, she's not going to budge.) After she finished her kibble and milk this morning, she hunted around her crate for any stray pieces she'd left. I don't want to give her more kibble and risk triggering the vomiting again. I've got some little treats I'll share between her and Q, and I'll give them something about 4 today (if she's awake then). We were on a food schedule of 8am/8pm, but I'm going to let that go. We'll have a meal, and the next meal will be at least 12 hours later--whenever she's awake and on her feet--and just let her sleeping determine the schedule. (It's only for a few days, Q will eat anything, any time, and I work from home and can be flexible about waking and sleeping and work.)

Sam went to a chiro recommended by a friend whose dogs do agility. Sam had inflamation in his spine. First visit was okay, and Sam was moving much better for a few days afterward. But the pain returned after a couple of weeks, so we made another appointment. This time, she worked on his lower spine (first visit was upper). Like Hubcitypam's 2nd visit, it was a nightmare. Sam nearly went for the chiro (only response like that in 11 years with him--including when he had stitches removed after the skin had started to grow over them). He screamed and cried and shook. I cried all the way home. Two days later, he was in pain again every time he moved. We never went again. Pain was met with drugs and we got along fine for a couple of years more.

Originally, I was feeding Jane 3 cups of kibble a day: one about 8am, one about 6pm, and one about 10-11pm. Then, mostly, she was throwing up at 5-6 am. (Sometimes the bedtime meal would be late, breakfast would be on time, and she'd throw up after that.) Since the vet said he thought the vomiting was from pressure, I've changed her food routine: one-and-a-half cups at 8am, one-and-a-half cups twelve hours later. (The alarm on my computer is set for every 12 hours.) That's worked for us since Thursday. Apparently, 12 hours is enough time to get the previous meal out of the way, and one-and-a-half cups is tolerated, where two cups is too much. She gets tiny snacks about 6 hours into the 12-hour periods so we're not getting stomach bile throwing up. She's always refused dry kibble, which I hope will work in our favor. I'm going to try substituting Ensure or goat's milk for the water at mealtime and hope we stay inside her volume limit while boosting her calorie intake. I'm hesitant to try any of the ordinary calorie boosters like eggs or satin balls or anything like that. She tolerates her kibble well, and I don't want to rock that boat. The vet has her on Pepcid and Reglan, as well as amoxicillin and metronidazole (the latter two because of concerns about the risk of a helicobacter infection). She gets the meds at mealtimes, folded into a slice of turkey lunchmeat. She slept all day, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I started telling myself she wasn't feeling well. Then I looked at my perfectly healthy greyhound boy, who slept all day Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and I calmed down. I was sick Friday (juniper pollen allergy), and Jane slept curled against me all day. Right now, she's licking the daylights out of my pillow.

They didn't mention it, but she doesn't seem to have any of the physical symptoms beyond vomiting: good appetite, no diarrhea, no rapid heart rate, lethargy, etc. She sleeps all day (typical greyhound), but she's up and wagging her tail when I go to the kitchen or take the dogs outside.

It's cancer. They did an ultrasound. One kidney has a large growth, and her liver is shriveled. Stomach and lungs look clear. As the vet pointed out, though, she's got one good kidney, and you can lose about 3/4ths of your liver function and still get by, so we might have a little more time. The vet is thinking the vomiting may be from pressure on her stomach. Since I've been feeding one cup a day, three times a day, and there've been just 4 hours or a little more between dinner and the bedtime meal, she's getting two cups of kibble in a short time period. I'm going to try two meals a day, at least 12 hours apart, with a cup and a half of kibble in each meal, and see if she can hold that down. (Twice-a-day feedings will work better with her meds, too.) The vet said she objected to being poked on the bad kidney during the ultrasound, but otherwise, she doesn't seem to be in pain. But she needs to be able to eat without vomiting or discomfort, and we need to stop the weight-loss. (She went from 54.4 to 53.6 in one week--not a huge amount, but a change in the wrong direction.) So she's going to get cuddled, get treats, and--since our weather is turning nice for a while--some lying in the sun and being cosseted. When she can't or won't eat, we'll know it's time, and I'll be watching for other signs. Meanwhile, in hopes of helping with her stomach, she'll get some stomach meds. I was feeling lousy this morning--pollen allergies--so I went back to bed after breakfast. (Also, the dogs were wondering why they weren't getting breakfast.) I woke up after 4 hours with Jane curled up next to me, her head on my shoulder. She's not going to make this easy.

I've got time to respond to some comments since I'm up to give Jane her "breakfast" 12 hours before her vet appointment. Some notes: Both dogs are crated when they have their Dentastix. Both dogs are good about chewing their sticks completely. Jane eats hers more slowly than the boy does, but since the dogs are crated, neither has to worry that the other dog is going to steal the stick. And she hasn't vomited any of the Dentastix. What she produces is recognizably undigested kibble. About Interceptor: Jane had Ivermectin the first of November. (To save money over retail heartworm meds, SEGA uses capsules compounded by their vet's office for heartworm prevention in our foster dogs.) Jane had Interceptor the first of December, then again the first of January. In January, she had it right after breakfast that Sunday morning, and I listened to make sure she was chewing it rather than swallowing it whole. (I have a friend whose dog once pooped out an entire Interceptor tablet, so I listen for the crunch.) Jane's first vomiting was late Monday night (so maybe 36 hours later). The vomiting seems worse lately: originally she vomited a small mouthful; now, she's vomiting pretty much an entire meal (but still vomiting just one time a day). But other than the vomiting, Jane hasn't demonstrated any of the other symptoms listed for dogs sensitive to Interceptor's ingredients. Even Interceptor/ivermectin-sensitive breeds (like Collies) can take 10 times the regular preventative-dose without ill effects; it's the stronger heartworm treatment-dose that's riskier. The Interceptor was purchased from Drs Foster & Smith (my vet doesn't carry Interceptor, but it was the one oral heartworm med where the flavoring didn't give my old girl, Silver, diarrhea). It would have arrived in late June, but my mailbox is completely in the shade, so the outdoor temperature wouldn't have been an issue (and I work from home; mail doesn't sit outside for long since I retrieve it when I take out the dogs during the day). The product expiration date on the remaining tablets I have is 08/2017, which is the date on the Interceptor in stock now at F&S.

I'll stay up tonight working, and she can have a meal about 3am. And if she throws it up, I just have to swoop in before she can gobble it up. I'm trying to pretend I'm not worried by having lost two greyhounds in the past 10 months. Or that three of the five greyhounds I've lost were 8 years old when they died.

Okay, you guys suggesting a nonfood issue are thinking what I originally suspected. Calling her vet. Today's his surgery day, but we should be able to see him tomorrow. I work from home, and Jane generally is on the Slumberball right next to me all day. When I'm not home, she's crated. But she could have gone for a stroll at night sometime, or she could have brought a previous indiscretion with her. Hurray for Care Credit and Healthy Paws. ETA: Appointment for 3pm Thursday. I'm asking for x-rays, and we'll see about an ultrasound. Feed her a normal breakfast so he can see what's not moving on after 7 or 8 hours?

Jane, formerly WW’s Aunt Jane, is an 8-year-old brood bitch who came to me the first week in November, after I lost my much-loved Silver. Jane (out of Trent Lee x Aunt M) raced at Wheeling December 2009 to August 2011 for owner Julia Ward, and after an undistinguished racing career she retired and produced an April Fool’s litter of 7 or 8 puppies in 2012. (Seven puppies are listed on the database, but one of them is an “H” dog, so I’m assuming there was another.) Jane wound up at Blu Too Kennel (no idea how) and was there until July 2016, when she came to SEGA to find a new home. She was in a foster home until November, when I adopted her. She was not very affectionate to begin with: I was just the human she dragged through the neighborhood on a leash every day. She tolerates my timid 4-year-old boy greyhound, but they’re not buddies. Towards the end of December, she became a bit more cuddly and decided that I’m really her human after all. In the two months she’s been here, she’s had no health issues: no diarrhea, great appetite, no SA, etc. But she threw up on January 2 and has thrown up at least once a day every day since then. This doesn’t seem to bother her as much as it bothers me: she eats the soggy kibble back down (yuck) and is fine until the next time. She started with vomiting maybe a small mouthful of food, with very little bile. It has progressed to about a cup of food (an entire meal), with more bile. The vomiting occurs anywhere from 2 to 10 hours after her previous meal (usually about 7 hours), and doesn’t happen after every meal or after the same meal every day; and since she’s always vomiting kibble, this isn’t the usual sort of empty-stomach problem you often see. She has a very noisy stomach, but she sometimes sounds like she’s swallowed a full orchestra and then doesn’t vomit at all. Pepcid (20 mg, twice a day) and a probiotic (once a day) have not made any difference, and she’s as likely to vomit a meal that had Pepcid as to vomit one without. She had Interceptor for her heartworm meds on January 1, but she had Interceptor without a problem in December. (Was taking ivermectin capsules while under SEGA’s care.) She hasn’t had any flea/tick meds with me; I was going to start her on Bravecto last week (when the boy was due for his next dose), but I held back on both of them. She’s a chronic pillow-licker, but that’s not new with her and she’s shown no interest in eating stuffies or socks or anything else bad for her. We went to the vet last week. He couldn’t find anything useful. Her stomach was noisy that day, but she didn’t vomit until many hours later. A fecal revealed an unexpected quantity of plant matter. We’re in a condo with no fenced yard, so she’s leash walked always (and on a short leash): she’s not grazing on vegetation here (no house plants, either), and I’m not feeding her vegetable snacks. Apparently, she’s not digesting plant matter well, but we don’t have a prior sample for comparison, so I don’t know if this is a new issue or not. They checked the fecal for parasites and didn’t find any. She gets three meals a day—one cup of kibble at each--and one Dentastix as a treat. (The fiber content on the kibble is 4.0%; the Dentastix is 4.5%.) Dog cookies sometimes at meet and greets, but we haven’t been to one of them since December 18. She gets 2 fish oil capsules and 2 glucosamine tablets at breakfast (but often leaves the glucosamine). Other than those pills, which are packaged for humans, she’s getting no people food. (Confession: each dog got a squirt of whipped cream during the ice storm, when I was having mocha coffee.) Breakfast is anywhere between 7 and 11am; Dentastix in the afternoon; dinner between 6 and 7; nighttime meal between 10 and midnight. We’ve been on this schedule all along. There’s a longish stretch between bedtime and breakfast, but since she’s vomiting food, she clearly isn’t going too long between meals; and she sometimes has vomited just a couple of hours after eating. The one thing that changed was the kibble itself. The dogs were eating Nature’s Recipe Venison and Rice formula. That’s $52/bag, so I tried the less expensive Nature’s Recipe Lamb and Rice (about $35/bag). We started the L&R about Christmas, and she first vomited a week later. Thinking perhaps she had a low tolerance for lamb, we donated the remaining L&R to charity and went back to the Venison and Rice, but she’s still vomiting. She and the boy dog eat the same meals and pills at the same time (except he gets a cup more kibble every day); the boy is fine. And I’m having a hard time blaming this on the kibble since she was fine one day and not-fine the next on a brand of kibble she’s eaten for two months. I’m reluctant to try pumpkin since she’s already not digesting plant matter well. Besides, orange vomit… Ew! Bad enough that since she’s gotten cuddly, she wants to share the vomit with me. (My reflexes are great. Sound asleep to vertical and moving away from her in mere seconds.) Any ideas on what this might be or how we might investigate further? Is it ultrasound time? Lab work? My vet sees no signs of pancreatitis, and Jane seems to feel fine, even while she’s upchucking her previous meal.

She might not handle your current food formula as well as the boy does. Is your food a fish-based food? When I fed fish-based to one dog, he started smelling--fishy. I stopped, and he stopped. And current boy can't have fish-based food, although he's fine with fish oil capsules. I guess it's a difference in the way they're processed, but fish-based foods (or treats) trigger horrendous gas from him. (He's bad greyhound PR at a meet and greet.) If your vet doesn't see an obvious cause of your girl's problem, you might want to try a different food formula to see if that makes a difference.

Yes, if that's what it is. But if something just disappears, is that the same as knowing it was a histiocytoma? Hate to be all negative, but I just lost my best girl in October to hemangiosarcoma that started with a goofy lump on her rib cage, so right now I'm a "Get it off!" person.

I think you want to remove it. If it goes away by itself, is that really going to be good news? Or is there going to be a fear that it's just changed into something that's less alarming-looking? I'd want it removed and checked in an effort to get a definitive answer about what it is.

Check the packaging for the heartworm meds for your other dogs. Many have a preventative that works against hookworms. The preventative isn't strong enough to eradicate an infestation, but it should help prevent one.

You can assess things by having someone drop something behind him and see if he turns to look. That's how a friend's dog was diagnosed when a kitchen pot was dropped and the dog didn't react to the clatter. Meanwhile, start working out hand signals for him--basic "stay" and "come" will be useful if he sees you coming into a room and he's wondering what you want him to do, or if you get up to leave a room and he doesn't need to follow you. You'll have to get his attention to use the signals, of course, but at least you'll be able to "talk" to him. And the more you signal to him, the more he'll watch you.

I wouldn't have thought gabapentin would need Pepcid, and I'd be worried that something else is causing problems since he's been on the gabapentin a week and trouble only started yesterday. The only real warning I remember about gabapentin is that you don't stop it abruptly; it's something you need to step-down on to stop.

This is exactly how I wound up owning my first greyhound--and first-ever dog--at the age of 49.

First, look where you are: Health and Medical discussion. It's like asking why all the guest stars on House played sick people. Other forums aren't as dark and intimidating as this one is. I hang out here a lot, though--not because my dogs are sick, but because I want to know about ailments and potential problems. (I'm like the person who watches House so she can check off the symptoms a friend has...) Second, greyhounds have thin skin and move fast. Running into trees, bushes, fences, and other dogs' teeth at speed will cause damage. But I live in a condo (no fenced yard), have owned a couple of medically challenged older ex-racers (mostly, foot trouble), and I don't let my guys tear around at speed (because of those foot troubles) and have had just two greyhounds need vet care for an injury. Silly Sam tried to run up the stairs, slipped on the carpeting, and wedged his foot under a stair riser. Three stitches. And Oreo once cornered Sam near his food dish (in my early days of dog ownership--I learned better), and he bit her to get away from the bossy bitch. Four stitches. Something will eventually kill every dog, and for about half those dogs, it will be cancer. That's "dogs"--not just "greyhounds." All long-boned dogs have higher rates of osteosarcoma than little dogs have, but the usual warning list of dogs prone to osteo names Goldens, German Shepherds, Dobermen, etc. Greyhounds are further down the list. But meanwhile, you're not likely to have to operate on a greyhound to fix hip dysplasia: greyhounds generally aren't bred until they've proven to be healthy runners. (The old joke is that if your vet says your greyhound has hip dysplasia, you need a new vet.) Other ailments such as vision problems or digestive issues affect greyhounds about as frequently as they affect other breeds. You hear about a lot here, but if you ask a vet's office, they've got poodles and labs and goldens and mutts on special diets, deworming meds, etc. Walk into the waiting room of any veterinary dermatologist: you'll see cocker spaniels, shih tzu, basset hounds with allergies or skin problems--but you'll probably have the only greyhound. Ask your vet (1) what trouble does he see most with greyhounds, and (2) does he see more illness with greyhounds than with other breeds? One thing to keep in mind: you're getting an adult dog. That means you'll have fewer years with one you adopt than you'd probably have if you adopted a puppy. That's just math. But those of us who love the temperament of the retired racers are going for quality time with our furkids, even if it means less quantity. I've owned 7 greyhounds since I adopted my first in November 2001. I've lost 5 of those, three of them at the early age of 8, one at 11 and a half, and one at 13. Lots of people have older greyhounds; some people have lost greyhounds very young. (I had my 13-year-old for 10 years, 10 months; I lost an 8-year-old to osteo after just 2 years, 4 months in my home.) None of the dogs I've lost have been sick for more than a month. At present, I have an 8-year-old ex-brood mom (she's been here one week) and a 4-year-old boy with a screw in his foot (a racing injury; he's been here since April). Losing one can be financially devastating--but not more expensive than losing any other breed. No matter what kind of dog you get, look into pet insurance (there are threads on Greytalk that discuss insurance; I'm about to put the new girl on Healthy Paws). And steer clear of dog parks.

It's why I brought home Jane a week ago--on November 2, one week after I lost Silver on October 27. Jane is an 8-year-old brood bitch who'd been in a foster home since July with no inquiries. She's already sailed through her first meet and greet, picked her favorite Slumberball, taught me how she likes her kibble, and flirted with the neighbors she meets on walks. The people who overlooked her because of her age have missed their chance.

I'd recommend a veterinary dermatologist. It might be an infection rather than an allergy. (Allergies aren't often one-sided.) I had a dog with a fungal infection below the surface of her skin (so skin scrapings didn't help) and a bacterial infection at the surface (because she chewed her skin when it itched). Veterinary dermatologist did punch-biopsies and was able to diagnose quickly. Girl wound up on antibiotic and antifungal meds and recovered well.