greyhead

What an awful thing to happen! I am so very, very sorry. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

I totally hear you about the food-allergy focus. Not to diss anyone, but it has become something of a fad, IMHO. Spencer reacted badly to grains and carbs in general, which are very plentiful in prescription diets, so my vet was supportive of our using a non-prescription, limited-ingredient food. We use Natural Balance venison & sweet potato, and I'm just grateful that he can handle the potato! I'm hoping to find another protein source soon, as he has been on venison exclusively for a year. He does still have an inflammatory reaction to more common things like chicken and beef, but I'm hoping fish might offer some variety. If not, there's always kangaroo! Yes, thanks, Spencer is doing really, really well now. The only thing is, he lost a lot of fur as a side effect of his immunosuppressant med for IBD, budesonide. His legs are about nekkid! But the internist said he had to take it for a year, which will be up in May. Hopefully, it'll grow back when we stop the med. It sounds like you're on top of Kelly's condition, learning as much as you can and observing how Kelly responds to things, which I think is key. The thing about fecal testing for "bugs" is that there are a couple routinely looked for, like E. coli and salmonella. They mainly expect Clostridium perfringens only in German Shepards, and only looked for it in Spencer because I lucked into articles about it on the Internet and demanded it. When they do look for Clostridium, they usually look for the C. difficile variety, which is thought to be more common than the C. perfringens variety. Since you're paying the bill, you should feel free to investigate on your own and request specific tests. In any case, you should ask them what specifically they plan to look for and why they're picking them. As you might surmise, I consider "because it's the most common" to be not a very good answer! Best of luck with this, and please keep us posted! We'll be looking for news. Mary

Well, now. I know you know how scared I was to change from pred to the budesonide. There were no or very few clinical trials especially with GH - it was all antedotal. Even Dr. Couto had no experience with it but wished me luck. My vet did her reading last year and said there was nothing new but if I wanted to try it, she was on board. He was just so flat and nothing like the Beau I once knew. It wasn't my dog. to have this insane puppy back - there are no words. He is not scavenging around looking for food and just laying there catatonic. Well, maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration, but he was pretty flat from being on the pred for so long. Very pleased. We keep an eye out for Beau, as you might suspect. Very pleased to hear this! "Anecdotal" can be very important information. Even data aren't applicable to every situation. Btw, if you learn anything about how to remedy hair loss in long-term budesonide use, Spencer would really like to know!

We went through this with Spencer last year. First we got the intestinal malabsorption diagnosis. then they kept testing him for worms -- he had a history of hookworms -- and the fecals kept coming back negative. His poop was soft, yellowish, and smelled truly awful. I had to really push to get a culture of his poop done. It came back that the small intestine problem was SIBO, in his case caused by Clostridium perfringens. It took three antibiotics to get rid of it. This was drawn out over many months, and in the end he was left with IBD, which can be controlled with luck and skill but has no cure. There are other bacteria, of course, that can cause this. So I'm very happy that you've found out as much as you have about Stripey's condition. But I urge you to have a fecal test for bacteria!! Please don't hesitate to let me know if I can be of any help. Here's the link to my GT thread about Spencer's diagnosis; it contains another link to a good article about this bacterium. http://forum.greytal...1entry3887382 Here's a good article for your vet too: http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580

All fingers and paws crossed here! If it's thyroid, that's an easy thing to handle.

Thank you for sharing a moving tribute and Murphy's handsome pictures. I'm sorry he had to go so soon.

If frequent urination reappears, you might want to investigate the effect that semi-starvation may have had upon her metabolism. Her body had to adapt its metabolism to stay alive, most likely, and those adaptations may still be present. So now that she has a normal diet and has gained weight, she may still be storing too much glucose and having diabetic-like responses. I say this because frequent urination is a symptom of diabetes. I tried to find articles about this for you; but they're way too technical for my comprehension! Someone on GT probably knows something about this, and your vet surely could access the veterinary literature to study it. Hugs to you and Cindy, Mary

Yours was the perfect home for Benny. I'm very sorry for your loss!

Yes, and this sounds like possible lumbosacral stenosis to me. It can be relatively easy to treat with acupuncture, which is all our Spencer has needed. It can also be easily diagnosed by the vet pushing down gently on the hind end. Might not really need an MRI to diagnose, even though it's more precise. Here's a link to Dr. Suzanne Stack's paper on LS: http://greythealth.com/lumbosacral.htm

Ah, I see. I was reacting to the OP's paraphrase of the vet's statement: "even venison isn't novel around here." It seemed like the vet considered novelty to be a consideration of place or geography -- like "we have venison in the woods, so it's not a novel protein." I see what you mean about not being able to guarantee that any protein, like venison, is novel because of how complicated modern foods have become. Also, we greyhound people tend to try a lot of foods while we're looking for the one best for our dog. I wonder if the fact that my dog had one meal's worth of duck four years ago when he was still well, for instance, makes duck now entirely unuseable as a novel protein. This conversation has reminded me of a question I've toyed with over the last year and a half of Spencer's intestinal problems. That is, I wonder if it's necessary to avoid any protein they ever had before, from birth, or if it's really only important to avoid the ones that have been consumed during the inflammatory troubles. We tend to use the word "allergy" and "inflammation" interchangeably sometimes, and it confuses me. It seems like IBD dogs respond to some proteins as if they were allergic to them, but it's not a food allergy per se. It's just that there's an inflammatory process run amok, perhaps from bacterial infection or parasites for instance, and now the gut freaks out whenever foods consumed during the inflammation reappear. I don't *know* this for sure, but it seems plausible to me. Maybe that's why some IBD dogs reportedly can actually go back to proteins eventually that previously promoted more inflammation but don't once the inflammation has been brought under control for some period of time. This thread seems as good a place as any to discuss this. But I apologize if I'm boring people to bits with my speculations! Beyond that, who in their right mind wants to have a fight with Batmom?!

I didn't say the food was the problem. (At least I didn't intend to.) I just said there are alternative foods, if and when they need to be explored. Just cuz food is an important variable in treating IBD. I'm not sure Z/D is the "logical" go-to food either, with all due respect. It's the option that has the imprimatur, or whatever we want to call the general blessing, of the veterinary community in general. I've heard from an impressive number of GTers who have handled their dogs' IBD problems with raw food alone, without medication even. Many, many others have done well on commercial formulas using novel proteins. Let's please not get into a tiff about the difference between anecdotes and data, though some say a thousand anecdotes do equal data. Come to think of it, I've seen statistical analysis run on as few as 17 human subjects, which isn't even enough to make a decent study! My point is, now and always, that owner observation of how the dog is doing on any regimen may be more informative and useful than standard treatment expectations. Did I say something to offend you, Batmom? Was it the suggestion that the vet might not have the best and broadest view of the food problem? I mean, I *love* my vet, but she's human and she's missed a few. And because she's as good as she is, she doesn't take it personally when I've caught the ones she's missed! But what I really love about her is that when she discusses diagnostic and treatment alternatives, she's careful to point out the ones that represent veterinary orthodoxy versus other, possibly better, choices. Maybe I'm spoiled!

Did I take the phrase "around here" too literally? Sounded geographic to me. I'm aware of the theory of hydrolyzed protein. And that it's the standard answer from vets about IBD diets. Even that it's *considered* the gold-standard answer. But I stand on my assertion that not all IBD dogs do well on those diets. And that my definition of a great vet is one who can think outside the box to find alternatives for individuals who aren't thriving under any given protocol. Just my opinion.

My vet wanted to attend but couldn't make it work with her other obligations. I can't go either. Could GTers attenting see if there are papers from the conference that we could purchase or otherwise acquire? I don't want anyone to do anything unethical. But if it's okay to share that stuff, I'd be glad to pay for it. Have a great and informative weekend! I'm so happy for those who get to go!

What matters is not that the protein be novel to the geographic area but that it be novel to the individual animal! I hope I'm misunderstanding your vet's point; if I'm not, I'd hazard to say she's not at the top of her game on nutrition and IBD. Don't hesitate to get a second opinion. We had to look around a bit but found an excellent internist for IBD who was willing to work with us and our regular vet despite the lack of biopsy. (I'm not interested in textbook approaches that cover the vet's a$$ but put my dog at unnecessary risk.) You might also inquire on the Food & Nutrition forum here to get a full range of opinions/experiences on prescription diets, other limited-ingredient commercial foods, and raw feeding, all of those in dogs whose health is compromised. But please also update this thread as things progress since we're all paying attention and caring how this goes! Largest of hugs, Mary

Sounds like a plan! Glad to hear PJay is gaining weight too. We didn't scope either. Ultrasound showed that the problem area wasn't accessible by scope. We didn't want to do a surgical biopsy either, on a then 8-year-old dog who had already lost 20 pounds. It seems that even when the vets discover by biopsy the exact inflammatory cell type, it's still a matter of trial and error as to what treatment works on what individual dog. So hang in there. It does take a while. And don't discount the novel protein approach if further change seems needed. I gather not every IBD dog does well on Z/D even if it is unrecognizable mush.

Our IBD dog has been on Budesonide, metronidazole and tylosin for about 9 months and doing very well. He also gets one raw meal a day. He can only have venison; we use Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato kibble, and Evo 95% Venison canned. Three meals a day total. Internist vet says expect to be on Budesonide for a year. Regular vet says metronidazole probably for life, though the dosage is now half what we started with. He has done fine with the meds! The only down side to Budesonide is loss of fur. I'm hoping the year gets over without him becoming bald. He developed an inflammatory response to chicken, beef, and buffalo before we figured out that he had IBD, after a lengthy round of SIBO. Never tried Z/D because it has too many ingredients and, if I'm not mistaken, is chicken-based. So you might find a novel protein with minimal other ingredients and try that. I'm told that eventually IBD dogs may be able to again eat some of their old foods, but so far ours can't. That's okay. He's alive! Best of luck! Let us know how it goes, okay? Edited to add: Another GTer PM'd me to say that every time she tries to take her dog off Flagyl, he reverts to pudding poops or worse. But as long as he stays on it, he's okay.

Godspeed Buddy. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I'm so very sorry.

Thank you. The one below was one I saw in a very large vet's office and it gave me the idea. It just blew me away!

Same thing happened to Shane two days ago. In his case it seems the nail was short enough to dig into the skin of the toe next to it. As one of the earlier posters said, it needs to be the "right" length. Thanks for bringing this up!

Yes, it does happen that hypothyroid dogs (and people) show symptoms that are usually associated with hyper-t, such as normal to low weight or normal to thick hair. Hope that information helps.

Gotta have Homer! Put together a Christmas tree for our vet this year, decorated with stuffed dogs, but no greyhound! Will it be complicated to buy from Seattle?! Paypal uk doesn't seem to be oriented to dollars.

Prayers and virtual hugs for you and Brandy tonight. Try to get some rest.

I'm so sorry for beautiful Petey's sudden loss. Be good to yourselves and Eddie.