Recurrent Diarrhea

[NeylasMom]

Violet had a really nasty episode of diarrhea that started 2 1/2 weeks ago late on a Sunday night. Liquid stool overnight that turned into pooping bright red blood in the morning (quite a lot), but by the time we got to our vet later that morning she was back to liquid poop and it had slowed down dramatically. No vomiting, drinking extra, wanted to eat, acting normal -no lethargy. We suspected her raw meal (it was an overly bony pork bone, not something I normally feed along with organ meat) caused the issue and did 5 days of Flagyl, Blue Naturals canned GI Rx food and transitioned to cooked chicken, eggs and mashed potato. Also gave her a Vetrisceience Probiotic BD supplement twice daily. By the weekend she was doing well and I transitioned her back to raw. She did great the entire following week (last week), but this Monday she started with diarrhea again. By Monday night it was pure liquid squirts amd it continued into Wed AM. Her meal was just chicken beforehand so no reason it would cause this. I didn't feed her Tuesday night. Yesterday, since she seemed to have stopped by afternoon I did small meals of the canned GI, which she tolerated. This morning, normal formed stool, just with some bloody mucous around it that I'm sure was residual from irritation to her gut.

 

Fecals from first incident and this Tuesday both negative.

 

Of course my vet suggests today that she just can't digest raw any longer. I know older dogs don't digest as well, but Violet is only 8 so I really don't think so unless there is some other reason we're missing that her digestion is affected. Vet also suggested maybr her gut didn't heal completely after last round so wants me to do GI food for a full week. I have enough to last me about 4 days, at which point I'll transition to cooked bland diet for at least a few more days and I'm keeping her on the GI supplement as well.

 

I'm considering deworming her with Panacur despite the negative fecals as I think she had hooks when she retired amd I know they can rear their head at any time. Does anyone think this will further irritate her gut?

 

Any other thoughts? I'm hoping her gut just needed longer to recover and if we do the GI/bland food and supplement longer she'll be fine. She also has an ortho appt in 2 weeks for her lameness issues and I know we'll be getting images of her spine. I'm thinking I'll ask them to just get x-rays of her stomach/intestines while they're doing it just to be safe.

 

Any input welcome. Its not out of the question for her to get diarrhea, she had a bout of it about a year ago that resolved without further issue, its just the 2 so close together that is making me a bit concerned.

Edited November 16, 2017 by NeylasMom

[KF_in_Georgia]

I'm with you in thinking it's not an intolerance to eating raw. How does the vet explain the good week in the middle?

The possibility of hooks sounds reasonable to me, but I have no idea whether the meds would be a problem right now. Our local greyhound group is recommending a new protocol for our greyhounds (they're all from Florida); the group just posted this protocol today:

 

To address this recent hookworm problem and to provide you as much deworming support as we can, SEGA and LCAH are now observing the following protocols with both newly-arrived Greyhounds and all the Greyhounds living in our adoption kennel pending their rehoming:
1. Upon arrival at the adoption kennel, LCAH will administer Drontal Plus to each Greyhound.
2. A few days after arrival, SEGA will administer ivermectin to new Greyhounds.
3. Ivermectin will again be administered to all Greyhounds 7 days later and every 7 days thereafter.
4. Three weeks later, Panacur will be administered for 3 days in a row.
5. Two weeks later, Panacur will be administered again. (Adopters may be sent home with some Panacur depending on where their new Greyhound is in the Panacur administration cycle.)
6. One month after the second round of Panacur is given to your Greyhound, you should follow up with a visit to your vet for a check for worms, particularly hookworms. If the vet exam is positive for hookworms (or any other worms), we recommend that you request your vet to dispense Drontal Plus to you. We are also receiving reports that Advantage Multi has been effective in killing these persistent hookworms.

 

LCAH is Lake City Animal Hospital, Acworth, Georgia.

Edited November 16, 2017 by KF_in_Georgia

[macoduck]

Check out the Facebook page: animalEO

 

Melissa Shelton DVM has a line of blended essential oils that I started using on my dogs. Added bonus is you can post questions on FB regarding your dog's condition. I'm guessing she would suggest her blends named GI Goe, Boost in a Bottle and Any-i-tis. I've had good success with her Calm-a-Mile blend for storm phobias.

 

I had been using the YL oils and was following some of their FB pet pages. But when I saw non-vet and non-vet techs saying things like, "pour olive oil in your cat's ears to get rid of the mites and redness" I knew I wouldn't take any advice there.

 

I've signed up to attend Dr Sherman's essential oils seminar in Feb 2018 in NC, her first to include pet owners along with vets.

[cleptogrey]

sounds a lot like the chronic colitis that annie went thru a while ago. my vet's preference is flagyl. and to my amazement she lowered what was always given in the past, a standard dose of 500mg- 2x daily. reason: the dosage of flagyl has just been lowered according to research. annie was down to 55# at the time. the new finds are that an overdose will result in diarrhea. annie had gone thru flagyl on and off for the entire summer- good for a week, good for a couple of days and then lousy stool, so i repeated but gave her flagyl for 2 weeks vs. 1 week. i finally went in to see if she picked up worms or what was going on- enough of this !

 

yes, we tested(found nothing), did a round of worming(just incase which really made things bad) then started her on a much lower 250mg of flagyl 2xs daily for 3-4 weeks, tapered down to 1x daily for nearly a month , tapered to 1x every other day and eventually every 2 days. it works, we have weaned her off of the flagyl. but it did seem like she was on it forever. this is the dog who could, in the past, eat ground tires and never flinch. this change occurred near her 9th birthday.

[NeylasMom]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

 

Cleptogrey, I asked my vet about a longer course of Flagyl, but her response is it is an AB so it also kills the good stuff, which makes sense to me. Frankly Violet's stool didn't return to normal until we got her off of it so I'm inclined to hold off, at least for now. The dosing information is interesting, thanks for that. Will definitely keep it in my head if this persists and we decide to use it again.

I'm with you in thinking it's not an intolerance to eating raw. How does the vet explain the good week in the middle?

 

 

Good question. She didn't really say.

 

I came across another protocol for deworming recently retired greyhounds, but I'm hesitant to do too much without a positive fecal. 2 3 day courses of Panacur 2 weeks apart seems *reasonably* harmless to me assuming it doesn't cause side effects, which at least it hasn't in the past.

Edited November 16, 2017 by NeylasMom

[KF_in_Georgia]

Cleptogrey's flagyl protocol sounds about like what we did for Sam in his senior years. I was plotting days on meds vs days of diarrhea on a calendar, and every time we stopped the flagyl, the diarrhea was back about 4 days later. Vet said to try the flagyl, but Sam had had so much of it over the years, we were a little concerned about metronidazole toxicity. We put him on a regular dose for 10 days and, as usual, the diarrhea cleared up. We went to a half-dose daily for 10 days, then an half-dose every other day. The diarrhea did not come back and Sam didn't have any symptoms of toxicity. He stayed on the metronidazole the rest of his life. (You can get metronidazole from Walgreen's on a script, and it's listed on GoodRx.com.)

[Guest GusTheBus]

Hello. We've been looking for information on this for weeks. He is also from Florida. Our guy was sick for over a month. He would be ok, then soft serve, then liquid awful, then black liquid, then raspberry jam, then fine... We actually went out and bought a rice cooker because we thought he would just be that way forever and have to live on boiled turkey and rice.

 

It's eerie how similar this story is to ours.... Negative fecal, twice. 3 drugs the first time, 1 more this past time. He lost 6 pounds (72->66) in a couple weeks.

It's been 4 days straight of formed poo. It's still soft, but it has shape! We put him on Merrick Salmon food, did one course of Panacur, removed his free access to the back yard, and started giving him pumpkin and yogurt.

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by GusTheBus

[3greytjoys]

How's Violet now? Hope she's fully recovered.

 

If she's not improving yet, perhaps consider the more comprehensive PCR fecal test. It can reveal specific bacteria DNA, toxins, etc.

 

(One of our hounds happens to have been fighting a life-threatening Clostridium Perfringens - alpha toxin. It's a rapidly generating anaerobic bacteria that creates toxic spores inside the body. This bacteria is often found in raw meat, under-cooked meat, foods not properly transported/stored/refrigerated, rotting vegetation, among other sources. If not treated in time, can cause gas gangrene, sepsis, and/or death.)

 

Fingers crossed for a simple treatment and rapid recovery for Violet.

 

 

 

 

[NeylasMom]

How's Violet now? Hope she's fully recovered.

 

If she's not improving yet, perhaps consider the more comprehensive PCR fecal test. It can reveal specific bacteria DNA, toxins, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the reminder about that test. I always forget it exists!

 

And she's doing a lot better, thanks for asking. She improved tremendously as soon as I got her off of that darn GI food and back on raw. I have only been feeding ground to keep things easier on her digestive tract and initially was still seeing undigested bone, but then I realized I was feeding too much bone. With more boneless meat added in she's a lot better. I also realized I wasn't feeding enough so I increased the amount and in the last couple of days she is finally back to a good weight and not starving all of the time. I also reintroduced chicken, no issues. So our last hurdle is reintroducing RMBs. I'll probably start with a small turkey neck with additional boneless meat one day this week.

 

I never did do the Panacur. Debating whether to at this point. They haven't been getting the heartworm preventative with dewormer in it so I may still do it with both girls to be safe.

 

She's also still on the "loading" dose of her GI supplement. You're supposed to do that for 4 weeks, then cut it in half. Once she's had some meals with meaty bones and done okay, I'll cut that down.

Edited December 4, 2017 by NeylasMom

[3greytjoys]

I'm so glad she's doing better! Considering her last two negative fecal results, and if her stools are back to normal, I'd probably wait a while before reconsidering Panacur. Her gut might need a bit more healing time.

[NeylasMom]

The one thing I'm not thrilled with is we're getting a lot of tummy gurgling (hunger related) now and then. A ton this morning, but I had to feed them really early yesterday so should have given her a bedtime snack I guess. I think shes just having a little trouble adjusting back to one meal a day though I gradually faded out the AM meal so I'm not sure why.

Edited December 6, 2017 by NeylasMom

[NeylasMom]

And now Skye has diarrhea!

[Guest GusTheBus]

Here we go again....

 

Saw vet again on 11/24

Closed dog door - supervised access to back yard only. Not allowed in raised beds (Bouganvillea or dirt)

10 Days amoxicillin

3 day course Panacur (powder)

Pumpkin at feeding 2x day

Appx 3 cups marrick kibble per day

Yogurt at lunchtime.

 

Normal BM since

 

Saw him eating grass from the same spot last night and this morning. I take a flashlight out and watch. I thought it was just sniffing but then I heard the grass ripping. Will check when sun is out to see what else is there if anything.

 

 

1st BM less than 5 mins from home. 2 small small poos

2nd BM about 15 mins out was probably just the rest of the first. Same consistency larger volume

 

3rd BM about 30 mins out is what Id call porridge.

 

Plan to do nothing and see if hes back to normal in a few days.

 

will discuss rehoming with GPA (foster agency) for at least 6 weeks to observe. If he gets better its something here and he stays with new owner. If not I just have to find a way to accept hes going to be sick forever and deal with it when it occurs.

 

Thanks to all who tried to help

Edited December 8, 2017 by GusTheBus

[cleptogrey]

 

 

 

1st BM less than 5 mins from home. 2 small small poos

2nd BM about 15 mins out was probably just the rest of the first. Same consistency larger volume

 

3rd BM about 30 mins out is what Id call porridge.

 

Plan to do nothing and see if hes back to normal in a few days.

 

will discuss rehoming with GPA (foster agency) for at least 6 weeks to observe. If he gets better its something here and he stays with new owner. If not I just have to find a way to accept hes going to be sick forever and deal with it when it occurs.

 

Thanks to all who tried to help

 

are these when your walking your pup? to me that sounds really normal. we can never take enough poop bags with us and it's guaranteed that annie will poop 300 yards into our walk. 10-20 min later soft serve ice cream and before we return (generally a 3 mile walk, so i would say 2.5 miles into it) a cow plop. the longer the waste is in their gut the firmer. the more they exercise the more they evacuate.

[Guest MissEcho1]

Why are you closing the dog door?

[Hubcitypam]

Ditto on why closing the dog door. I seriously doubt random bedding plants and/or grass are the root of this issue. As an aside when Buck's tummy would bother him on rare occasions he'd go eat slippery elm in the yard - he knew.

My Rex the colitis dog was the King (pun intended) of poop issues. He had a standing script for Flagyl and we wormed, antibiotic-ed and fecal-ed him within an inch of his life. This was about 17 years ago and I tried all the cool foods - California Natural, Natural Balance, other novel proteins and limited ingredients. Nothing I could scoop up as opposed to hose in. So I'll share for the billionth time that I got so mad one day I just tossed a green bag of Iams in the cart. I'd fed it to my first dog as an adult when it was toward top f the line.

Within two days Rex was a new dog and his tummy never grumbled again and his poops were great. I'd say it could just me be but my soap boxing has helped dogs all the way to Germany to their owners amazement. Give it a try before you throw in the towel please. It's the beet pulp.

 

Rex would have grumbly tummy at night and if I could stoke his furnace with a bite of anything - cheese - freeze dried liver -roasted chicken- braunswager - sweet potato - he'd go on and eat a bit of canned then maybe 1/4 cup kibble and we'd all sleep happy. Kicker was that what he wanted to get started was different every night. My futon myself and Rex saw a lot of trial and error at 4 a.m.

BTW- both pumpkin and yogurt backfired on us and only made Rex's runs worse.
http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?z=kU7IP3&d=rex+o%27millon&sex=&color=&birthyear=&birthland=

Edited December 10, 2017 by Hubcitypam

[Guest GusTheBus]

@cleptogrey: I severely over reacted...GI stuff is totally fine. The woman who's been our 'contact' with the agency said hers are the same too. He went twice on our walk this morning and again at dog part in afternoon, no issues. Oh and i got one of those little bag dispenser things. I went to bag the 2nd one this am and had run out >< The HOA has a big park-style garbage can at the end of the street, so I pitch it there every day. I thought i was gonna have to get in the can, find the bag, untie the double bag i'd made and use it...Luckily some jerk had pitched a paper taco bell bag so i used that lol!

 

Regarding the dog door: It was the last thing I wanted to do, but after eliminating every other possible source, it became evident that whatever was making him sick had to have been coming from outside.

 

We have a sort of wedge-shaped lot (~10k sq. ft) and a raised flower bed goes almost all the way around the perimeter. So there's a 2.5 ft or so high wall, about 2 feet deep, full of dirt, then a 6ft+ cinder block wall that separates all the homes. At this time the only thing growing in the beds are Bougainvillea and Lantana, both nontoxic.

 

Here's what I know for sure:

1. He was digging in the beds. I filled in a few big holes and I have seen him do it.

2. He was eating the dirt. I only actually saw him once which was the last day he went out on his own. He spent a lot of time in the dirt sunning himself. My wife and I work from home and were watching him at all times, but we couldn't really see him without him seeing us. I had to sneak outside REALLY quite the one time i caught him.

3. The first solid BM he had after being sick for 6 weeks was like picking up wet sand from a beach.

4. He's been fine since i haven't let him roam outside on his own.

 

I have a couple guesses as to cause:

 

1. I found a dead rat outside shortly before he got sick. It wasn't chewed or bloody. It was just lying stiff by the corner of the house. It is remotely possible he got poisoned 2nd hand.

2. I know the stray cats in our neighborhood use the beds as a litter box from time to time. He could have picked up who knows what.

 

Next trip to the store he's getting some Beano though... cuz D A N G

[3greytjoys]

Ugh, bummer about Skye's diarrhea.

 

Our hounds need more frequent meals to prevent an empty and upset stomach too.

 

(Our ill hound is still struggling terribly and she's barely been eating tablespoons of food multiple times per day.)

 

 

 

... At this time the only thing growing in the beds are Bougainvillea and Lantana, both nontoxic.

 

Here's what I know for sure:

1. He was digging in the beds. I filled in a few big holes and I have seen him do it.

2. He was eating the dirt. I only actually saw him once which was the last day he went out on his own. He spent a lot of time in the dirt sunning himself. My wife and I work from home and were watching him at all times, but we couldn't really see him without him seeing us. I had to sneak outside REALLY quite the one time i caught him.

3. The first solid BM he had after being sick for 6 weeks was like picking up wet sand from a beach.

4. He's been fine since i haven't let him roam outside on his own.

 

I have a couple guesses as to cause:

 

1. I found a dead rat outside shortly before he got sick. It wasn't chewed or bloody. It was just lying stiff by the corner of the house. It is remotely possible he got poisoned 2nd hand.

2. I know the stray cats in our neighborhood use the beds as a litter box from time to time. He could have picked up who knows what.

 

Next trip to the store he's getting some Beano though... cuz D A N G

 

Seems you have discovered multiple strong possibilities. Glad you're monitoring his outings. Yikes re: the dead rat. There may be more around the property, especially if there is a food or water source. Also, it's surprising how many plants, mushrooms, etc. are toxic to pets. BTW, Lantana is toxic.

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/toxic-and-non-toxic-plants/lantana

(I believe Bougainvillea sap is mildly toxic.)

 

Generally, healthy dogs eating an agreeable, quality dog food usually don't have horrible gas. Parasites, bad bacteria, etc. can be a source of unusually bad gas/stool odor.

[macoduck]

Gus the Bus: Do you have a bird bath in your yard? That ended up being the source for simultaneous diarrhea in my dogs.

 

And ditto what Pam said, the pumpkin may be backfiring (pun intended). Although it firmed up my occasional loose poop dogs it had the reverse affect on my 2 with mushy poop.

 

My ibizan will eat dirt and rocks if given the chance - her poop is always firm. She must wear a muzzle with a stool cup any time she's outside. Having your dog wear the same could rule out diarrhea from eating dirt and protect him from dead rats.

Jen, would Prilosec help your girl?

[Guest GusTheBus]

I wouldnt say unusually bad. But its bad enough when its cold out, youre in the car windows up heat on and hes fumigating you from 6 inches away lol

 

How in gods name did you find this. I searched all over for reactions to these two plants before we even got him and confirmed with the foster agency when she did the house visit.

 

I know he was eating lots of grass. And the area he primarily dug in was between 2 Bogys

 

We have Bogy flowers everywhere. There are 8 giant Bogys and 3/4 of my Lantana are 15+ feet across and pushing 10 ft high . Im going to research more and call vet tomorrow to see if they can use the draw from last time to check his blood for the toxin. And now that hes been away from it maybe have it drawn again to see what changed.

 

These plants are so common here its a wonder every dog in the area isnt sick.

 

Edit: Oh ffs now its everywhere I look. How how how did we ALL miss this? Im getting someone from a nursery or something to look at pics today.

Edited December 10, 2017 by GusTheBus

[Guest GusTheBus]

Gus the Bus: Do you have a bird bath in your yard? That ended up being the source for simultaneous diarrhea in my dogs.

 

And ditto what Pam said, the pumpkin may be backfiring (pun intended). Although it firmed up my occasional loose poop dogs it had the reverse affect on my 2 with mushy poop.

 

My ibizan will eat dirt and rocks if given the chance - her poop is always firm. She must wear a muzzle with a stool cup any time she's outside. Having your dog wear the same could rule out diarrhea from eating dirt and protect him from dead rats.

 

Jen, would Prilosec help your girl?

Theres an old ratty metal bird bath but its never used. Im moving when I let him outside next time though just in case.

 

We did muzzle him at night for the first month or so but that was about safety for 🐱. Once they went from acquaintances to friends we stopped.

 

He also ate a shoelace (regurgitated whole) and a bit of cotton blanket (passed in fibers).

 

Once he settled in all that stopped. Or so we thought. Maybe he just traded chewing our stuff for eating shrubbery?

[cleptogrey]

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/toxic-and-non-toxic-plants/lantana

 

couldn't find "Bogy Flowers" what are they?

 

annie digs up the bed behind the azalea bushes(either looking for cool surface or warmth depending upon the season) and always eats dirt. grubs?she runs around the yard at takes bites out of the turned up ground? she too reacts negatively to pumpkin and oatmeal, goes right thru her. and yes, my dogs- past and present have managed to pick up bacteria from squirrel & bird poop. birds are outright dirty filled w/ bacteria. it's not easy to clean that up, it took many different antibiotics. colitis can take months to clear up, if the flagyl is not overdosed it's safe. often dogs need to stay on a prophylactic dose. annie was on it for over 6 months, now any stress- a week clears her up.

 

pam always has great advice- follow her remedy at the supermarket.

 

don't rip out the plants, just fence them in. they are sweet.

Edited December 10, 2017 by cleptogrey

[Guest GusTheBus]

Bogy is just slang for bougainvillea. And way easier to type:)

 

Gardener confirmed I have 4 of the largest Lantana bushes in miles. Apparently he was surprised we hadnt asked to have them removed when we got the dog ...

Edited December 12, 2017 by GusTheBus

[Guest GusTheBus]

Vet says Lantana poisoning is significantly more severe than we observed including protracted vomiting.

 

Basically he couldnt have survived it for as long as he was sick.

 

Back to dirt and grass being the culprit.

[Guest GusTheBus]

Bumping this again. 3 Days in a row of normal poop first then awful porridge. Also gas is getting worse

 

What does lactose intolerance look like in a dog? Or a peanut allergy?? Because the only thing I can point to is those 2 things

Edited December 16, 2017 by GusTheBus