Started Peeing In The House & Crate After 6 Months

[Guest chas2016]

OK so we are struggling with our 4yr old greyhound who we've now had for 6 months. To be honest we have had a *really* hard time from the beginning with her toilet training and It's the most frustrating thing as she is otherwise a very good dog.

 

So Chas does understand that you toilet outside, we taught her first by giving her a treat and praise when she did wees & poos outside. Then she started to try and trick us to get a treat by just squatting and doing nothing so we stopped the treats and just gave her praise. She wouldn't pee in the house when we were home ever, but everytime we left for work there was a big pee in the carpet. So 3 months later we had to replace the carpet it was totally destroyed by the weeing. We put laminate down and this stopped her peeing straight away! She always liked to pee on carpet.

 

THEN my partner broke both ankles and was off work from November to 1st week of January. Chas had someone home every day for this period of time. The day my partner was back in work and the both of us out of the house she has left a big puddle in the lounge almost everyday, and she has also peed in her crate at night and slept in it. ( She would normally cry or bark to let us know she needed to go) peeing her bed like this has never happened before. We have also filmed her the past week and she suddenly seems to have bad Separation anxiety and is barking howling and crying most of the day.e

 

I've been to the vets and he has given me a weeks worth of antibiotics incase of a urine infection. He didn't test her he just went off the info I gave him. So far absolutely no change and yesterday she peed after we went out for just 2 hours and then peed right in front of us later that day. She finishes these tablets on Monday.

 

Does this sound like a behaviour issue? We have spent hundreds so far just TRYING to alleviate or deal with the problem. I feel like it's since my partner has been off and is now back in work it has made her worse than ever. The next step I'm thinking is a animal behaviourist?

 

Has anyone else's greyhound got worse instead of better like this??

[DocsDoctor]

I do think you need to rule out a urine infection. The peeing in the bed in particular suggests she has one. I'm a bit surprised the vet didn't run a test for this before prescribing the antibiotics! Ken had a similar problem and my vet wouldn't prescribe anything until we'd run the test, so that he knew what bug it was he was targeting (a strain of cloistrum difficile I think) and so prescribe the right antibiotic. In the end it turned out to be so well-established that we had to run a second course of another stronger antibiotic to get rid of it.

 

So if things haven't improved when she has finishes these pills I would definitely request the urine test. If she does have an infection, you will need another after she's finished the antibiotic to make sure the bug's gone. The laboratories usually want samples taken by the vet in clinical conditions rather than caught by yourself, which adds a bit to the expense, but it's something you really need to do because an infection will be so uncomfortable for her, not to mention that if neglected you run the risk of it affecting her kidneys.

 

My feeling is that this sounds like a bit of both things - she has a urine infection, and the discomfort of that is adding to her anxiety when you go out. So work on her alone training too, meanwhile, though with Ken sorting out the infection sorted out the wees in the house too.

 

My greyhound rescue's manager told me that it is far from unusual for ex-racers to come home with a low-level urine infection, picked up in kennels but only becoming evident when they go to their new homes and have the stress of adapting to a new life.

 

Good luck and I hope the three of you can get this sorted out soon. It is miserable having to deal with all the clearing up, I know.

[Guest chas2016]

Docsdoctor thanks for your response.. We are just at our wits end with the peeing. I almost hope that it is some urine infection as we can only hope once she has the correct treatment this problem will go away. I'm going to go back to the vets on Tuesday and ask for a test to be sent off. I think he was trying to save me the expense and offered a broad spectrum antibiotic 🙄 but clearly it hasn't worked, if this is indeed the issue.

 

At least with a test we will know for sure if we are dealing with a medical or behaviour issue. If it is behaviour I think we are going to have to get a trainer, it is so hard working full time to be there to correct bad behaviour I'm so concerned it is now just a habit she has.

[fionasmom]

I second the need to check for UTI. Fiona stated peeing in her crate after about six months, even after a long walk. UTI was the problem and cleared up after a round of antibiotics.

[Houndtime]

If this doesn't sound too over the top for you; what about an animal communicator? Our first greyhound had separation anxiety, would make in her crate, howl and bark for hours, etc. All your typical anxiety behaviors.

 

We got a communicator because we thought that perhaps she would want to be rehomed. As it turned out, that wasn't the case, but, we also got the benefit of the communicator telling her that the behavior was unacceptable and she needed to change. Of course the conversation between the communicator and our dog continued and she told her some things that she would like (the dog told), and we were not privileged to hear any of it.

 

The bottom line was, when we brought the second dog home, all the bad behavior stopped. This may not be able to be your solution, but, you might want to give the communicator a try. Usually cost less than a vet visit.

 

Also, we used a DAP defuser, a white noise machine, peanut butter filled kongs, large chew bones; lots of stuff to keep her busy while we were at work.

[Brandiandwe]

The howling and barking says anxiety. Have you done any alone training with her? If not, you probably should. Is she warm enough?

 

Otherwise, I have one who just can't hold it consistently. Her upper limit tends to be about 6 hours if we aren't home, although she has gone for 9 hours otherwise. I ended up training her to use a litter tray. Saves the floor, doesn't smell, she knows where it is and it saves a lot of stress and worry. She uses it perhaps one day or night every fortnight (as in most nights she doesn't wake up, some nights she needs to pee. No rhyme or reason. She's quirky and I love her).

[GeorgeofNE]

A week of antibiotics wouldn't cure a UTI. You'd need at least 10 days to 2 weeks.

[countrypaws]

Do you have small children, other dogs or a noisy environment? Where does your dog sleep? Where do you sleep? What food do you feed? There are so many potential things here I wouldn't know where to start.

 

Some dogs decide they don't like where they are. One way they say this is to pee and or poop inside just after they have been walked. They can do this to show they don't like where they are.

 

I do not know this dog and I have not seen your dog in your home, but this is one aspect you may wish to look at.

 

Our Jasmine came to us four years ago after peeing and pooping all over her home. They would walk her or allow her out into the fenced yard and she'd come inside and pee or poop. Came to find out they had two small children and two tiny barking dogs and Jasmine hated it. Noise, activity and craziness.

 

After four years she's never had an accident in our house. None. Calm dogs, quiet house, one long walk every day.

 

Many adoption groups remove a dog immediately when he/she acts like this.

 

Just saying that environmental issues which you may not be able to see could be a factor.

[Guest chas2016]

OK so now a UTI has been ruled out it must be behaviour. To answer your questions

We have no other dogs, the other pet we have is a parrot who is downstairs.

Chas sleeps in her crate at night (she likes her crate and is crate trained)

She is fed Burns sensitive pork and potato complete dry food. And we also give her a boiled egg most days and she has her dentastix treat 2 a day.

 

I think she has just discovered that she can pee in her crate and the bedding soaks it up. She has done this twice this week, she doesn't make a sound to let us know she needs to pee, but I think it's worth noting that if she needs to poop she will bark the house down and NOT dream of going in her crate for that.

 

We have managed 10 days in a row without pee in the lounge, but she can be great like this and then go bad day after day, there is no pattern to it. I think the next step is an animal behaviourist because it has got to stop and I don't know what else there is to do to combat this problem!

[3greytjoys]

What is her typical crate schedule?

How often is she taken outside to eliminate?

 

One of our hounds' separation anxiety increased when the routine suddenly changed (human was home after family member's accident). I agree with others' suggestion to work on "alone training" to help ease your girl back into being alone. Please do a search for alone training specifics but in a nutshell: human leaves her sight for very brief periods (one minute or two initially) with a yummy Kong treat (smear the inside with plain peanut butter). Human returns before dog reaches comfort threshold (i.e., return before dog shows any sign of anxiety) and human picks up Kong immediately. Repeat, repeat, repeat -- gradually increase time human is out of dog's sight (but timing is strictly dependent on dog's comfort level). If signs of anxiety surface during the session, drop back to previous time limit dog remained relaxed/comfortable.

 

Separation anxiety is fear-based. Consider a time when you may have felt especially nervous about a presentation, meeting, performance, flying, etc. Dogs, like humans, often need to eliminate more frequently when feeling stressed or anxious. Dogs are not spiteful. Please understand that when dogs are feeling very anxious many can't physically hold urine/bowel as well as they can when feeling calm/relaxed. As frustrating as potty accidents are, please be very careful to not scold her for potty accidents, or anything else she does based from fear. Scolding magnifies the initial problems tenfold+, creates new issues, damages a dog's trust in humans, etc. Better to calmly and silently clean up the mess. If catching her about to squat/pee, happily and swiftly escort her outside then praise for eliminating outside. Aside from elimination accidents, if she happened to be scolded for crying/barking, it may have curbed her only communication option to alert a human that she desperately needs to eliminate, especially when she's crated.

 

Our adoption group recommends hounds' elimination outings a minimum of every 4 hours during day/evening (similar to racing kennels). Our own hounds and canine visitors are taken outside a minimum of 5 to 7 times per day: i.e., when they awaken in AM, before and after meals, again immediately before human departure/s, after a nap, last minute before bedtime, or whenever they pace, sniff the floor, look out a window, go to the door, approach a human, etc. Good luck.

[Guest chas2016]

She is not crated during the day time she is confined just to the lounge (which is quite a small room anyway) and she has her bed and water in there. She only goes in her crate at night time as she likes to wander around during the night, she runs in that excitedly when it's bed time - she knows the routine. She gets a treat when she goes in and settles down straight away.

 

She peed in her bedding this morning, I was in the room, there was no warning, she just got up squatted and peed all over her bedding and then lay back down to snooze for the rest of the morning!!

[o_rooly]

How was a UTI ruled out?

Checking because my guy Aston started peeing indoors with no routine changes, no stressors, no increased water intake. It was his only symptom of a possible UTI, and it turns out that he was prone to them. A routine antibiotic course didn't solve the issue, so we cultured; nothing came up. He kept peeing indoors, near the back door (so he knew he needed to go outside, but couldn't hold it even when we were only gone for 30min after letting him out). We let him out more often. The peeing indoors continued. His pee turned blood-tinged. Second culture finally turned up proteus mirabilis -- oddball, swarming bacteria that don't necessarily show up if they're not grabbed in the sample used for testing (is my understanding). That culture+sensitivity indicated that we needed a different, stronger abx, and it finally cleared things for the poor guy.

[3greytjoys]

She peed in her bedding this morning, I was in the room, there was no warning, she just got up squatted and peed all over her bedding and then lay back down to snooze for the rest of the morning!!

 

It's tough to determine a potential cause for this accident with limited information. I'm unclear if she already had her initial wake up outing prior to her accident, or if her bladder was simply full from holding urine through the night, time duration since her previous outing, or what her humans were doing just prior to her accident. By the way, it may seem odd, but a Greyhound "standing up" after resting is a warning signal.

 

Some thoughts:

1. Some other medical infection as o_rooly mentioned, or a rare long shot possibility of a lingering spay surgery complication, etc.

2. Many dogs (and humans) naturally need to urinate immediately upon awakening.

3. If her humans were already preparing to depart for work (shower, dressing,cooking breakfast, etc.), she's likely learned her humans' predeparture signals on work days. Anticipation of her humans' long work day often increases a dog's anxiety, meaning they need extra outings before your departure.

Example: If hound and humans awaken at 5:00 AM and humans leave at 8:00 AM, hound may need 3 outings before humans depart for work:

- Quick outing upon awakening.

- Exercise walk with eliminations (after waiting 1 hour after her breakfast to reduce risk of bloat).

- Last quick outing within 10-15 minutes or so of human's departure for work. (Human needs to feel calm, otherwise dog might become too stressed to eliminate.)

4. Consider adding an extra large puppy wee wee pad on top of her bed for now (unless she's a chewer), to help ease your clean up. After an accident, it's important that her skin and fur is at least very well rinsed with fresh water and then dried off, and her wet puppy pad replaced with a dry pad. Keeping her clean and dry is important and will prevent urine scald/burn.

5. BTW, alone training includes desensitizing dogs to predeparture signals. (Sessions of picking up and putting down keys repeatedly; putting on and taking off work day shoes/jacket when you don't have to leave, etc.)

 

Our hounds sleep in the same room with humans, so it's easy to bounce up the moment the first hound awakens/stands up (15 year old hound awakens first now), so all hounds are rushed outside to eliminate immediately. Outings thereafter as noted in post #10.

 

For your girl, I'd focus on housebreaking 101 (so to speak) by escorting her outside more frequently, and watching her like a hawk inside; doing alone training; and if you or your partner can't swing by the house to give her an elimination outing during your lunch break, try to arrange for a dog walker or dog experienced neighbor to take her out to eliminate mid-day during your work week. There's a learning curve, as U.S. racers have never had to learn to give "signals" to humans when they need to eliminate because they've been on a kennel schedule where someone just appears to take them outside regularly. When I get new fosters, I begin taking them outside every hour the first day (though they don't eliminate every time, they begin getting the idea of housebreaking); increasing to every 2 hours the second or third day; 3 hours the next several days/weeks, eventually to every 4 hours. After their housebreaking is solidified, and they've settled into their new home well, some hounds can last a bit longer.

 

You mentioned getting a behaviorist -- I'd suggest anyone working with the sensitive Greyhound breed should be using positive reward reinforcement methods only.

[Guest chas2016]

Thanks for your responses! She was fine yesterday she slept in until 8am no pee, this morning I heard her stirring at about 6.15, and I watched her closely in the crate (from my bed), she got up,moved to the back of her crate and did a big old pee in the bedding and then lay down as far away from it as possible. I honestly just think after her being so good for months she has just simply figured she can pee on her bedding, it soaks away and she can get a nice dry spot elsewhere in her crate and carry on with her snooze.

 

UTI was ruled out by tthe vets sending off a sample , urine hasn't changed in colour or smell that we are able to see aswell, and she hasn't been going in the lounge now for two weeks. We are left with this peeing in the crate which I honestly believe is behaviour.

 

So her walking schedule during the week is, straight out her crate for breakfast and immediately out for a 45 min to hour walk at 8am, home at 9ish and then I leave for work at 10 so I take her out again for 5 mins for wees before I go. Partner gets back at 4 takes her out immediately for a wee, then at 6 dinner and 45 min walk, then she goes out for wees before bed anywhere between 9.30 up to 11pm. On weekends obviously she goes out several times a day for wees and walks.

 

Chas has never been totally accident free since we got her, we have always had issues really. But the bed weeing is totally brand new. She has always had no problems before holding through the night through to 8am and never shown signs of struggling. I am wondering if getting a smaller crate would help. She has a huge 42" crate so maybe it's too much room?

Forgot to add the bed weeing is whilst we are still sleeping or in bed, as we always check as soon as we get up and it's already soiled

[3greytjoys]

I believe the time between her final night outing and first morning outing is too long. None of our hounds can hold urine for 9+ hours, even during overnight darkness. Your best bet would be to anticipate her body's current functional needs, and intercept by providing her a quick outing before she reaches her holding limit. Then go back to sleep, if needed.

 

Is any water added to her kibble meals? If not, I would suggest doing so. Moistened kibble is swallowed more easily, and it could reduce her need for drinking as much water from her water bowl close to bedtime.

 

A 42 inch long crate is not too large for a Greyhound. Dogs are supposed to be able to stand up, turn around easily, and lie down without folding their legs when crated. Actually, 42" crates don't even allow Greyhounds to stand up erectly. (Racing kennel crates are larger.) During winter, she may be curling up more frequently at one end while trying to keep warm (or when trying to avoid a urine accident!) but she will need that 42" crate size in summer. BTW, since Greyhounds are temperature sensitive and our house is fairly cool in winter; our (open door) crates are partially covered with a blanket or sheet, and our hounds wear Greyhound jammies to help them stay warm. (One exception: Avoid covering crates with fabric for hounds who are known chewers likely to ingest the material.)

 

Positive thoughts to your partner after having broken both ankles! Recovering from one fracture is difficult but both at once must have been awful!

[Guest chas2016]

OK I'm trying something new, I'm going to get up and take her out early before she has a chance to pee in her crate to get her out of the habit. We really need to get the garden fenced off properly as she can't be let out in the garden until it's secured so I have to walk her around the block.

 

Fingers crossed this will help to re-train her toilet habit.

[3greytjoys]

Sounds good. Your initial extra effort should help set her up for long-term success.

 

As mentioned, each newly adopted dog's urine holding time limit is different due to their physical body; medical condition; environmental stress level; previous kennel schedule; food/water; etc. (Generally, our well-settled, healthy hounds' comfortable overnight limit has been about 7 (or up to 8) hours.)

 

If interested in a potential temporary solution until your garden can be fully fenced (if your hound is not high prey or a jumper):

For quick supervised elimination outings, a couple of 48" tall metal exercise pens could be configured into one larger U-shape surrounding a house door with the exterior house wall as one side of the enclosure. Ex-pens come with a ready-made gate, and can be secured to 5' tall metal fence posts (1' of post in-ground).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Pet-Supplies/MidWest-Exercise-Pen-Door-48-Inch-Gold/B00063KG46

 

(We find our 48" tall ex-pens valuable as an indoor medical recovery space; dog enclosure inside hotel rooms; Greyhound events; air-lock safety surround for main fence gate or house door; to fence off a deep pond; separate visiting dogs while eating, etc.)

 

Good luck, and please let us know what ends up working best for your girl.