Growling

[Guest greyers]

A Whole Dog Journal article on growling that popped up in my email today is timed just after Rego growled at the cat last night, and it made me perhaps wonder if I had the right response. I am curious what you all do.

 

The article states the following:

"It's very common for dog owners to punish their dogs for growling. Unfortunately, this often suppresses the growl - eliminating his ability to warn us that he's about to snap, literally and figuratively. On other occasions, punishing a growling, uncomfortable dog can induce him to escalate into full-on aggression."

 

 

Last night when Rego was in his bed laying by me and our spooked cat came up and sniffed him briefly on the back of the head, Rego lifted his lip and growled a bit. Now we have NEVER tolerated any of our greyhounds growling or acting in any way negative to our cats and typically we just teach them to ignore them. Rego lived with a cat for several years and really is cat tolerant. Even though I know he was just demonstrating what he didn't like and he COULD have demonstrated that more strongly (as in a snap, snarl or even attack), I still reacted to him by "snapping" my fingers at him and low but firmly telling him "NO". He absolutely got the idea and like all greys, is sensitive to being scolded.

 

Anyway so now I see this article and it makes me wonder how everyone else acts to a growl. Whether that growl is toward you, another dog or cat in your house. What do you "do"?

[Guest KennelMom]

too many people train growling out of their dogs and it's a mistake, IMO. Growling is a form of communication, not a form of aggression. We have a dog now that had no other place to go b/c her first family taught her growling was unacceptable. And that got her into trouble when she bit a kid "with no warning." Her aggression was "unpredictable." Well, duh, when you take away their voice, what do you expect. Fortunately, our pack is teaching her those skills once again.

 

What we correct is inappropriate behavior, not a specific behavior regardless of circumstances. In many circumstances, growling is a totally appropriate response to let a dog, cat, person, etc, know that you are getting too close, that the dog is uncomfortable or whatever. Dog beds are safe zones and are respected. But, you can't lay in the middle of the floor or on the human sofa and get away with guarding your space. Yes, dogs can learn that different rules apply to different situations.

Edited October 25, 2011 by KennelMom

[christinepi]

Ditto.

[winnie]

Our greyhound Darcy has space aggression issues. She will growl at her greyhound sisters if they get too close to her food bowl or dog bed. She has done that with the cats too. We allow it. I don't want to punish her for giving them warning. The other animals know to back off when Darcy does that.

 

Now... growling at people is discouraged. If I'm on the couch or bed and Darcy growls at me, she is kicked off. Humans come first on the people furniture.

[Trihounds]

We just tell the dog to knock it off. They are very clearly just talking / communicating and both our dogs tend not to escalate beyond that, so it's a case of 'all talk no action' for them. We sometimes just ignore it as well.

 

That said, Bumper will only growl at Brucie when Bumper is on his bed or laying down. The boys don't growl at people, though.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I agree with all KennelMom said.

 

It's very common for Jayne to curl her lip and growl at one of my cats if they get too close while she's lounging. It has never escalated to a snap because the cats heed her warning and back off. There have also been a couple occasions where a cat has lept onto her face because he didn't know she was there, in those instances the cat corrects quickly and Jayne doesn't react in any way, not even a growl. I think it's because she can tell it was an accident.

 

If I'm sitting next to Jayne and the cat climbs onto me, then it's not ok for her to protest. I'll tell her to cool it (not raising my voice). If she's really unhappy about the cat she'll leave. Usually, however, she just stops growling and goes back to sleep, even if the cat's tail is whacking her in the face.

[BauersMom]

Depends on the growl situation.

 

If the dog is growling because they're being a brat, they get a "cut it out" yell from me. (and growling on the couch comes with a loss privileges)

 

If the dog is growling because they are uncomfortable or as a warning to other dogs, I don't do much except try to remedy the situation. (dogs growling because the beds are too close together - beds get moved, etc)

 

If I yelled at Princess every time she growled at another dog, I would likely have been hoarse most of the time.

[Guest BrindleBoy]

Depends on the growl situation.

 

If the dog is growling because they're being a brat, they get a "cut it out" yell from me. (and growling on the couch comes with a loss privileges)

 

If the dog is growling because they are uncomfortable or as a warning to other dogs, I don't do much except try to remedy the situation. (dogs growling because the beds are too close together - beds get moved, etc)

 

 

 

+1. Great answer.

[greytpups]

I agree, growling is a form of communication and although our pups rarely growl, when one does the other one usually deserves it. I let them work it out, but it never comes close to escalating. If Brooke growls at another dog, I remove her from the situation because something is upsetting her. We may need to step back a few steps or I may need to stand in between them. Again this is very rare, but usually there's a reason for it.

 

Brooke growled at me once when I took something out of her mouth. That was the only time. A quiet but sharp no did the trick. Sometimes I will take something she's eating away to examine it but always give it back if it's safe or leave it if it's rabbit poop They both are extremely good at letting me do that.

[Guest greyers]

Hmmmm. This is so interesting! I guess my entire like I have never really had dogs that growl much if at all. I have easily had a dozen dogs .growing up and then Rego is now my 5th greyhound in my adult years. So it seems maybe I DID handle it wrong with the cat last night.

 

Rego has been in our home only a week and has growled on several occasions most of those were related to food. Last night was the first night my scary cat, barnaby, had the guts to come up to Rego to try to check him out. He did it from behind him as he lay down. Barnaby never saw nor heard the low growl so he did NOT react by moving away. Again, I snapped my fingers and told Rego "no" in a low firm voice and then removed the cat from behind him and placed him near me to pet for a moment.

 

Should I truly have ignored the growl to the cat? How do I assure that he knows the cat is NOT to be touched?

 

Thanks everyone for your info on what you do!

[3greytjoys]

I agree with Kennelmom: "Too many people train growling out of their dogs and it's a mistake, IMO. Growling is a form of communication, not a form of aggression."

 

I much prefer to understand and carefully observe a hound's reaction to something rather than to scold them from growling.

 

(We know many Greyhounds lift their lips "smiling" in happy delight, so I'm not talking about that.)

 

As an example of some dogs' stages of being bothered near their food bowl:

A dog will often freeze and stare while guarding their food bowl.

Lip-lift to show their weapons (their teeth) from frustration.

Growl

Air snap

Bite their target.

 

Not all dogs go through all these stages, but it's important to understand and recognize the stages so a person can handle the situation more quickly. Meaning: Stop and get a child or another pet away from the dog immediately before it progresses.

 

If growling is supressed by a human scolding, the dog is much more inclined to skip any warning stages and go directly to bite. This is very dangerous.

 

IMO, all dogs should be left alone when eating and sleeping, but in other cases (like for hounds who are allowed on furniture who then begin space guarding) it's safer to modify a dogs' behavior through positive training methods, including "trading-up" with higher value treats to get the dog to move off a sofa, etc.

 

We have a super loving cat not afraid of a dog who gives warning growls while eating. (Maybe growls sound like purring in cat language.) It's the human's responsibility to remove the cat immediately, teach the cat to leave the dog alone, and/or separate the dog to a private space to eat.

[greysmom]

In the dog-cat interaction, a lot will depend on how much *you* are comfortable with. As long as you set a firm boundary (both ways) and enforce it consistently and calmly, both dog and cat will learn what is acceptable and what isn't.

 

Many people do not allow any aggression towards a cat at all. The dog must completely ignore the existence of the cat, no matter what the cat does or where. This is fine, if this is what you are comfortable with to keep both your cats and dogs safe and happy. Apply the same rules every time and don't overreact, especially if your dog is sensitive to sharp corrections.

 

All the way to the opposite side, where you have "Dogs and cats! Living together!" In our house, all three of our cats were raised from kittens around Great Danes, so they are quite used to large canines. I really think they think they are just small dogs. Our house has numerous escape routes and safe places for them to go if they feel threatened. They are also very capable of turning around and whacking a dog across the face if the dog gets too fresh. So I rarely, if ever, discipline the dogs for interacting with our cats. That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to correct the dog for a real attack, or to correct the cat for pestering the dog too much (which is, actually, much more likely to occur).

[Guest KennelMom]

Should I truly have ignored the growl to the cat? How do I assure that he knows the cat is NOT to be touched?

 

I would have handled it differently. Most low growls will get louder and louder...and, I bet you'd be surprised what your cat doesn't hear versus what your cat ignores. If you heard it, the cat heard it, I guarantee.

 

One reason some cats get into trouble is that they are allowed to abuse the dog, in a manner of speaking. Cats need to respect the dogs space as much as the dogs need to respect the cats space. If you aren't comfortable that Rego is cat safe, he should be muzzled.

 

Plus, sometimes corrections have unintended consequences. You want to avoid the dog learning that when the cat is around, they get scolded and so in their mind "cat = bad."

 

In a properly socialized dog, a bite is typically a last resort, not a first - and there are plenty of opportunities for the "offending" dog/cat/person to know what's coming. Exceptions would be if a dog is startled out of a sleep or a "catastrophic" encounter where things happen swiftly and severely, like a cat being thrown onto a dog...which is more of a startle reaction as well. Startle snaps aren't generally the same as a full on bite, unless they happen to land at the wrong place/wrong time.

Edited October 25, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest greyers]

 

 

Many people do not allow any aggression towards a cat at all. The dog must completely ignore the existence of the cat, no matter what the cat does or where. This is fine, if this is what you are comfortable with to keep both your cats and dogs safe and happy.

This is more along the line of what we have always done and had with the cats. The dogs all but ignore the cats (except for the occasional cat butt sniff), and the same with the cats. My cats don't pester or bother the dogs at all, they pretty much ignore them as well. Occasionally our outgoing cat will try to sniff the dogs feet because he is interested in where they have been, but we always correct the cat by moving him out of the way.

 

The scared cat who was growled at last night has not yet ever even tried to sniff Rego in the week he has been with us. He typically keeps to himself and stays way away from the dogs and he always has.

 

Kennelmom, Rego seems very cat tolerant, he hardly even looks their direction and he has not shown any sort of aggression toward them, yet alone even very much interest.

A lot of this is probably just me over reacting because all our previous dogs have been so disinterested in the cats and never even growled at them. Then again, I have not ever had a grey growl at another grey OR at me because of food and Rego has done both. So I am probably just not use to this behavior and probably making too much of it.

[JAJ2010]

growling at kitties is corrected here since Rainy tried to eat Frizzle when we first got her. Growling at me is a carnal sin and they might die for that Or rather guarding or getting defensive about anything I do to them. The correction usually comes before the growl.

 

Growling at annoying puppies or rude dogs gets praised! I cannot count the times Rainy was praised because she growled at Sunshine when I first brought her home. She would growl, then look at me really quick out of the corner of her eye, holding her breathe, waiting for me to yell at her. I still at her reaction the first time I praised her for it. Rainy is very good at teaching manners and is very fair in her levels of correction.

 

Sunshine always gets yelled at when she growls since she always is guarding a bone from a cat or dog.

[BauersMom]

 

IMO, all dogs should be left alone when eating and sleeping, but in other cases (like for hounds who are allowed on furniture who then begin space guarding) it's safer to modify a dogs' behavior through positive training methods, including "trading-up" with higher value treats to get the dog to move off a sofa, etc.

 

 

 

I assume you mean - positive reinforcement to train the dog to get off the couch when you want it to get off? That's a good thing to work on... but most cases around here, I have no problem getting them off the couch....but I have a problem with them thinking they OWN the couch - people getting growled at for sitting on the couch, stuff like that. That's an immediate ejection - and they know off means off so we have no problems getting them down, the handful of times this has happened.

 

But, if I need to boot a dog off the couch for misbehavior, I'm not going to 'trade up' with them. Worse case, I get out the leash and leash them up and get them off. I treat guarding a couch and guarding food differently.... food, I will trade up because I'm asking them to give up something that is theirs.

 

Dogs growl as a communication... that doesn't mean I have to like what they are communicating to me. If it's "I own this" when they don't in fact own it, and *I* do, I will correct it.

 

Otherwise, if the dog is upset, nervous, uncomfortable, having issues, etc. they don't get corrected.

[JAJ2010]

But, if I need to boot a dog off the couch for misbehavior, I'm not going to 'trade up' with them. Worse case, I get out the leash and leash them up and get them off. I treat guarding a couch and guarding food differently.... food, I will trade up because I'm asking them to give up something that is theirs.

 

Dogs growl as a communication... that doesn't mean I have to like what they are communicating to me. If it's "I own this" when they don't in fact own it, and *I* do, I will correct it.

 

Otherwise, if the dog is upset, nervous, uncomfortable, having issues, etc. they don't get corrected.

 

 

I've actually never had a dog growl at me for asking them to get off a couch. But I'm pretty sure I would just dump the couch over so they would slide off. That whole mental picture makes me laugh! I'm a huge meanie!

[BauersMom]

Most of the time it's fosters who will do that - they sneak up onto the couch when they know it's off limits, then give me grief when I kick them off. I will put the leash on them and that usually gets them to move. I don't even try to physically move a dog (esp. a foster) by pulling on the collar, etc., as I like to not get bit. Leashes work well for that.

 

My guys DON'T do that though - they know off is OFF. Fosters are a whole different can o'worms.

[Gryffenne]

As said above, it depends on the situation when/where the growl occurs.

 

~Dog to dog growl in the household. I let them deal with it.

Scenario/Example-- We have a young husky in the house. Sometimes she gets the older husky going in rough play. She's wound up and almost bounces off Sammi. Sammi lets it be known she does NOT want to be a trampoline in the canine version of an adult telling a 3 yr old who drank a Red Bull to get off their lap. Bella realizes where she is and moves away to resume play. Sammi sees she has moved a comfortable distance away and goes back to overseeing her kingdom and/or napping.

 

~Dog to dog growl outdoors/park/walk/etc... I diffuse the situation or remove my dog from a situation that is making her that uncomfortable.

 

~Dog of mine growls at ME. I growl back and usually a loss of whatever privilege they had mistakenly thought was their right.

Example-- Couple months after Sammi came home to me, she was laying on MY bed. Dead center, aka- hogging the whole thing. I go to get into bed and tell her to move over. She growls at me. I growl back and boot her off my bed for a week. She has never growled at me on my own bed before.

 

~Dog growls at child. "WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE DOG?!?!"

 

 

ETA~ Sammi growls, groans, sighs, purrs and other such noises in her sleep. My reaction to those is to smile

Edited October 25, 2011 by Gryffenne

[3greytjoys]

IMO, all dogs should be left alone when eating and sleeping, but in other cases (like for hounds who are allowed on furniture who then begin space guarding) it's safer to modify a dogs' behavior through positive training methods, including "trading-up" with higher value treats to get the dog to move off a sofa, etc.

 

 

 

I assume you mean - positive reinforcement to train the dog to get off the couch when you want it to get off? That's a good thing to work on... but most cases around here, I have no problem getting them off the couch....but I have a problem with them thinking they OWN the couch - people getting growled at for sitting on the couch, stuff like that. That's an immediate ejection - and they know off means off so we have no problems getting them down, the handful of times this has happened.

 

But, if I need to boot a dog off the couch for misbehavior, I'm not going to 'trade up' with them. Worse case, I get out the leash and leash them up and get them off. I treat guarding a couch and guarding food differently.... food, I will trade up because I'm asking them to give up something that is theirs.

 

Dogs growl as a communication... that doesn't mean I have to like what they are communicating to me. If it's "I own this" when they don't in fact own it, and *I* do, I will correct it.

 

Otherwise, if the dog is upset, nervous, uncomfortable, having issues, etc. they don't get corrected.

 

My comment is for any dog who seriously (dangerously) challenges a human. IMO, some dogs do not react well to a challenging human alpha approach, and that could enforce a reactive bite to protect his/her personal space. Leashing up works for some dogs, but other dog's won't even allow a leash up without an attack.

 

Calling the dog off a human's bed or sofa and/or into another room and then treating is a safer way to get the dog off the furniture. Just my opinion, some space protective dogs are better off not being allowed on furniture that needs to be shared by humans. Other space protective dogs may be worked with over time to eventually learn to share. I'm of the camp of not inviting dogs on human's furniture, but I understand many people enjoy it.

 

IMO, when a newly retired hound joins a family it can be helpful to wait several months before allowing a hound on human furniture. That way the hound can adjust to a new home and learn his/her position in family hierarchy first (vs. setting up a dog for a potentially challenging situation).

[Wonder]

Usually the growling here happens in the bedroom and I'm half asleep so I yell at them to knock it off. It's usually Diamond being an a@ss and standing over Lucky trying to take his bed. Lucky is the one growling and he should be. I'm yelling at Diamond to knock it off but I'm sure Lucky thinks I'm yelling at him too. Diamond doesn't always move either so then I have to get up and move his stubborn butt.

[BauersMom]

3greytjoys - I don't think the OP was talking about resource guarding to the point of having an bite-imminent situation, but growling. Growling is not an aggressive move, in most normal circumstances.

 

If someone has a serious resource guarder and are unable to put a leash on them, then an entirely different line of suggestions is warranted, I'd say.

[Guest Gemma]

I do my best not to correct growling but it seems to be a human response. I absolutely DO get involved when the dogs seriously snark at each other. If I hear a low, warning growl, I will come in to investigate but without saying anything. If I hear some serious snarkiness, I will give a sharp "hey!" before it escalates.

 

Like others, if a dog is growling at me over something, I don't reprimand or pander; I change the situation. We play 'trade up' for resource guarders (and remove toys so I can control when dogs get what, etc), being snarky about furniture makes them lose the right to be on it, being space aggressive gets them muzzled, etc.

 

I have a foster, right now, who I strongly believe was trained not to growl. It's unnerving. First time he met a non-grey in my presence, he went from seemingly okay to a lip curl followed by a fast and intent lunge-snap in 15-20 seconds. It is MUCH MUCH harder to rehabilitate a dog who gives no warning, IMO. His cues are so subtle that it is taking me a long time to learn them. Thankfully, he's a wonderful, loving, eager to please dog and his issues are really just non-greys and being crowded by people (which makes sense due to his background).

[Maddiesmom]

Maddie is on only dog so she does nopt do much growling. The one time I heard her growl. I was shocked and did not correct her. The doorbell rang, I usually don't answer the door unless I am expecting someone. I knew this was someone solicting something as I saw them through the windows we have on the sides of the door. I didn;t answer. Maddie went running to the door (as she thinks everyone that rings the doorbell is there to see her) when I did not get up to answer it, she ran back and looked at me with an expression of "mom, aren't you going to get it" then she ran back to the door and then to the widow that she looks out of, saw the person stil there and started growling (like my mommy does not want you here, go away) I was impressed and shocked and gave her a "good girl" when I knew the person had left. Before that she has never growled, just barked.

[philospher77]

I'll admit, I was shocked the first time my sweet, shy Katie growled at me. I'd given her a bully stick, and she did NOT want to give it back when I thought that she had had it long enough. She went so far as to air-snap at me. But once I got over the shock, I took it as a lesson to work on food guarding with her, and have been doing that. I haven't had an issue with it in a while, so it seems to be working.

 

So I guess my basic advice is to determine if the growling is "appropriate". As has been mentioned, it's a means of communication for the dog. Once I have figured out WHY the dog is growling, then I would work on fixing the why. Either by not putting them in that situation, or trying to alter their opinion of being there.

 

But yes, in the heat of the moment, first instinct is to reprimand, and I am not going to blame you if you do that, especially if they are growling at you and not another dog, etc.

 

Rebecca