Help... second biting incident

[BoTrixie]

Would love thoughts and advice on how to handle this.  We have an existing 4 year old female greyhound in our home.  We adopted a 2.5 year old male in July.  The two of them have gotten along great - they play together (play bows, zoomies - both inside and outside of the house), no aggression issues with food, and overall they are a happy pair.  However, there was an incident about the 5 weeks ago where our male dog was snoozing on the couch and our female jumped up on the couch to yell at the mailman.  The two of them ended up arguing and the male bit the female on her back between her shoulder blades.  We went to the vet and they cleaned her up and put her on antibiotics just in case.  No stitches and the wound healed perfectly.  After the incident, the two of them immediately went back to their usual selves.  And all was well!  Until yesterday... she was sleeping in the sunbeam and he wanted to be in the same spot.  She gave him a few warning growls, he didn't like it and again, we had a bite.  This time on her ear.  And again, the two of them went back to being their happy selves within minutes of the incident.  I've had several greyhounds over the past 20 years and we have never had anything I would call aggression until now.  I'm at a loss as to what to do.  Should I call in a behaviorist?  Is there something that I am missing in their interactions that I should be seeing?  Would love advice here.  The first time it seemed like a freak accident.  But twice in 2 months feels like a bigger problem.  (or am I overreacting???). Help.  

[Time4ANap]

I'm going to reply to this to try and bump it up for more visibility.   In both cases it sounds like one of them was startled so the reaction is somewhat  normal. Hopefully some of the long-time multi-dog households can offer some advice. At a minimum I would probably muzzle both until they work out their territory issues. 

[racindog]

Sounds like normal fairly easy to manage dogs to me.  Dogs bite. It is as much a communication tool to them as is barking or growling etc.  IMO they're not being aggressive. For one thing he has demonstrated "bite inhibition" and it is one of the greyt things about greyhounds.  Since greyhound puppies are allowed to grow up more normally than most other dogs they tend to learn good bite inhibition. That is one of the things those sharp puppy teeth teach.  Anyway, both times the bite has been minimal with no real damage.  That is because he exercised bite inhibition.  Without it or with actual aggression and malice there would be far more damage and blood.  So you see this tells you even more that you've got some amiable dogs and there was no real animosity or aggression involved. Had there been most likely part of the ear would be torn or missing and would need stitched up.  THE DOGS KNOW THIS TO! That is why they don't really react after the fact or feel animosity toward each other.  Its just a normal part of dog communication to them no harm intended.  And now you know that even if your male is pushed to the point of biting it is highly unlikely he will do any damage or truly aggress on the other(or a human either for that matter).  Personally I don't think you have any problems. They seem to be working things out well. Can it escalate? Yes, it could but probably won't.  If one inadvertently actually causes more pain to the other one than they are used to then things could always escalate.  But thats just 'dog life'.  You will know actual aggressive behavior if you see it because it is very violent and they will be using their teeth as the weapons they are instead of exercising bite inhibition. There are reasons that the pros muzzle their greyhounds. One biggie is that it is a lot cheaper than getting dogs stapled up and put back together. You just need to decide for yourself if you think their situation warrants muzzles.  Keeping them muzzled is no big deal. In fact there is a lady on GT that sells the most wonderful imported muzzles with a built in poop barrier. That way you don't have to worry about them eating stuff they shouldn't eat either.  Anyway I'd let it ride and just enjoy my dogs if I was you. They're just being dogs and good ones at that. JMO.

[BoTrixie]

Thank you so much @Time4ANap and @racindog.  I really needed to hear that I am not going down a terrible path here.  Bogie is still settling in here (it's only been 7 months) and really he and Trix and so so good together.  (She is a very shy dog and having a confident companion makes all the difference in how she interacts with the outside world.)  I do think these were just moments of establishing boundaries.  But oh that sound this week and the way that Trix looked at me after it was over.    Of course she is fine now (because it's an ear wound it opens every time she shakes her head and that part is no fun) and the two of them had a great play session this morning that has resulted in what is shaping up to be a 5 hour ++ nap.  I really appreciate the reassurance!

[greysmom]

I'll echo what's said above.  This isn't anywhere near being true aggression, which is very rare.

You don't say how long the two of them have been together, but it's probably likely that they are getting so comfortable with one another that they feel safe expressing their likes and dislikes more forcefully.  In both cases, one or the other didn't feel like sharing and expressed that.  Communication, not aggression.

Where I'll disagree with Racingdog is the need to step in.  This is normal behavior, yes, and very, very common, but it can also be distressing for us humans.  It can also become expensive to keep running one or the other to the vet for staples or stitches.  Number one, muzzle them both whenever you need to leave them unsupervised, particularly if they are left to free roam in the house (if they are crated or separately confined otherwise you don't need this).  This behavior *is* normal, but it can also quickly escalate past that point.  Number two, monitor their interactions more closely for a while and step in before your boy feels the need to communicate with his teeth. 

Your girl is older and she was there first.  She should be higher than the male in seniority.  You need to be her protector and her advocate, and reinforce her place in the pecking order of your house.  Don't let him pester her, or try to dog-bully her out of a choice spot in the sunbeam.  Distract him with a treat and lure him to another spot.  We also teach our dogs commands so we can move them around easier - "scoot" and "off" and "on your bed" help manage positioning with less stress.  UNLESS - *you* decide that your boy needs to be top dog in the house.  Then reverse all that!!   

Space issues can be one of those picky things for humans to manage, but they and you will eventually figure it out and things will calm down.  Be calm and patient and consistent with enforcing the rules and they'll learn quickly.

Good luck.

 

PS - just saw your reply - 7 months is about right for them to feel like going to the next level in expressing their wants and needs.  Everything else applies.  It's even more important you reinforce your girl if she's not able to stand up for herself, and your boy is much more confident.  She probably doesn't *want* to be top dog, but she shouldn't have to put up with being bullied either.  If you decide the make is the more natural leader, then make sure your girl gets equal attention.

Use the leg of an old stretchy tube sock like a snood to keep her ear from flapping around and reopening the wounds.  There are also commercial products you can purchase that do the same thing.

Edited March 1, 2023 by greysmom

[BoTrixie]

@greysmom thank you!  We've had greyhounds for 20 years, but I've never had a single biting issue with our previous dogs.  Goes to show that there is always something new with this breed and always something new to learn!  I'm definitely going to try the sock trick to help the ear heal better (and prevent the blood spatter look that I found on my hallway wall from when she decided to do a full body shake - which of course reopened it again).  As I rethink about the incidents again and again, I do think that this is just them establishing boundaries.  But, I also think this has raised a great topic in my house about Bogie as a new dog.  He is a big boy (95 lbs and it's all muscle) and doesn't quite understand how large/ strong he is.  He is insanely friendly and even with humans (me, my husband, and any guests that come to our home) he can be a bit dense about boundaries.  Husband and I talked about it, and it is time to do some general training with him to establish basic manners.  He is such a good boy and he loves everyone he meets!  but I think it's time to help him learn how to love everyone with a little but more respect.  Again, always something new to learn and every dog is so different.  While I know that my two are going to find their path together, I also have to acknowledge that I can make this easier on all of us by stepping up to help him learn what it means to be a good boy.  

Again, really appreciate your help and reassurance.  I haven't been to this site in a long time and getting these comments has reminded me how valuable and caring this group is!  

[greysmom]

Excellent!!    I'm also very glad to read all the humans in the house are in the same oage and will be involved in helping your dogs settle in together.

If he's just being a big goofball that makes it easier to put your girl forward for a while.   "Dominance theory" of dog training is mostly BS, but you can show him that she needs to be respected too.  In time, it may be that he becomes the dominant dog in the house, but *she* gets to decide that (along with you), not him, at this point.

Also look into Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF Training) training, to help reinforce things in his brain.

Good luck and let us know how things are going.

[racindog]

17 hours ago, BoTrixie said:

Thank you so much @Time4ANap and @racindog.  I really needed to hear that I am not going down a terrible path here.  Bogie is still settling in here (it's only been 7 months) and really he and Trix and so so good together.  (She is a very shy dog and having a confident companion makes all the difference in how she interacts with the outside world.)  I do think these were just moments of establishing boundaries.  But oh that sound this week and the way that Trix looked at me after it was over.    Of course she is fine now (because it's an ear wound it opens every time she shakes her head and that part is no fun) and the two of them had a great play session this morning that has resulted in what is shaping up to be a 5 hour ++ nap.  I really appreciate the reassurance!

Got to mention this...there is no doubt that his confidence will help her shyness.  I adopted a hound named Goldie that was so scared. It was sad. He would cower in the back of the kennel if you opened the door; I had to feed him by himself in the back bedroom because he was scared to eat anywhere else. One time we got him to accept a little treat and he went trotting off to his back bedroom to eat it and someone just happenned to open another bedroom door and it scared him so bad he jumped into the wall and fell down trying to flee and dropped his prized treat! If he made any sound at all it was a squeaky little girl bark.  Well it so happens my other greyhound was Slim, my soulmate, who is rather well known because he was very aggressive(to people & animals), very protective, and had TONS of confidence! Slim ALWAYS said 'bring it on!' I didn't even know a greyhound could be like that.

Besides love I gave Goldie Rescue Remedy twice a day and that helped some but Slim's confidence and personality TOTALLY TRANSFORMED Goldie!  Little by little Goldie got braver and braver and within 3 or 4 years no one would ever guess he had ever been shy or scared! Even his bark changed! and he started barking with a deep man bark. He oozed with confidence and didn't get rattled anymore no matter what. He ate and played with the other dogs and was an integral part of the pack. He was so relaxed-he even became territorial and helped Slim protect their territory!  Now had I not seen this and lived it with my own eyes I would never have believed such a major transformation was even possible.  But this happened. A total transformation and it was brought about because his packmate Slim was so extremely brave and outgoing. He started copying the things Slim would do-like be confident & even territorial-and adopted that behavior as his own. And Slim was the real deal...he had quite a reputation because he actually did violently drive off burglars one day etc. 

Yep its a mess sometimes with an ear injury.  You'll prolly need to find something to gently hold it down against her head for a while until it heals. Blood does indeed go EVERWHERE when they shake their head otherwise. People use stocking/snood/or loose type of stretch bandage sometimes.

[BoTrixie]

@racindog Hooray for Goldie!  It's so inspiring to hear about other fearful dogs who have managed to gain confidence.  It's all I want for Trixie.  I will have to check out Rescue Remedy.  She has come so far in the time she has been with us.  In the beginning, she was so afraid of people she wouldn't seek affection and she wouldn't take a treat from anyone's hand.  We've come so far with her!  She is incredibly cuddly with us and when it comes to new people, she will approach them if they are quiet and sitting down and on brave days she will take a treat from them.  She still gets very nervous in new places, and sometimes just walking in our own neighborhood she will get scared when there is something (and especially someone) new.  It's been a joy to get her this far, and I can't wait for the day when I can say that she's achieved Goldie status!  

[racindog]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:45 PM, BoTrixie said:

@racindog Hooray for Goldie!  It's so inspiring to hear about other fearful dogs who have managed to gain confidence.  It's all I want for Trixie.  I will have to check out Rescue Remedy.  She has come so far in the time she has been with us.  In the beginning, she was so afraid of people she wouldn't seek affection and she wouldn't take a treat from anyone's hand.  We've come so far with her!  She is incredibly cuddly with us and when it comes to new people, she will approach them if they are quiet and sitting down and on brave days she will take a treat from them.  She still gets very nervous in new places, and sometimes just walking in our own neighborhood she will get scared when there is something (and especially someone) new.  It's been a joy to get her this far, and I can't wait for the day when I can say that she's achieved Goldie status!  

Wonderful to hear. Enjoy the journey. Sending love and hugs to all.