Advice needed on young Grey walking stairs

[Herman]

Just a cry for help. It has a lot to do with our Grey's separation anxiety/sticky behavior. He's 8.5 months old now. He still has those lumps on his paws. So it's not fully grown. Can anyone give me a clear answer to the following question:

Can we take our little dragon upstairs at night? He then walks independently, however with his harness on, so we lift him. In the morning when going out, eating and going out again is done, he stays downstairs in his crate until we come downstairs washed and dressed. Again, the harness with a handle.

It is a very short but very important question because now we sleep downstairs in the living room because the squeaking and screaming is not doable. We also have neighbors. Can someone please answer this?
 

Thank you thank you thank you very much for any advice.

[palmettobug]

So he won't do the stairs independently? Are they carpeted? Open back?

I have successfully trained 4 greys to do stairs, outside open back. They don't have a choice whether or not to do them, as we live on the second floor. Some super yummy treats, a little pushing and hind end moving, and a great reward at the top (lots of praise and a good meal!) and they want to drag ME up the stairs.

[Herman]

13 minutes ago, palmettobug said:

So he won't do the stairs independently? Are they carpeted? Open back?

I have successfully trained 4 greys to do stairs, outside open back. They don't have a choice whether or not to do them, as we live on the second floor. Some super yummy treats, a little pushing and hind end moving, and a great reward at the top (lots of praise and a good meal!) and they want to drag ME up the stairs.

I am so terribly sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Our little one is very eager and capable of taking the stairs. (It's carpeted and closed) So there is absolutely no need for effort. He will take the stairs without any problems, multiple times a day since he was 4 months old.

However, almost everybody (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) and not just from the Greyhound world, told me that it was imperative for him not to take the stairs before his legs are fully grown. Especially with these long legged dragons. They told me that you can identify this by the lumps on his knees, they will go away when he reaches a more adult age. From the moment we learned that, we carried him up and down the stairs. But by gaining length and weight, it became impossible to maintain this habit. So we stopped and tried if we could keep him downstairs. That didn't work, and believe me, we've tried. O, how we tried... So the only possible solution was to move our bed into the living room. He stays in his bench but there has to be a better solution.

I hope I now definitely cleared up things.

Thanks for the answer, by the way! 

[greysmom]

However, almost everybody (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) and not just from the Greyhound world, told me that it was imperative for him not to take the stairs before his legs are fully grown.

 

I've had three greyhound puppies and a few adolescents and I have literally never heard this from anyone - breeder or vet.

Yes, there are certain things you don't want to do or allow them to do before the growth plates (those nobs on the dog's legs they are talking about, I think) have closed.  Those plates are where the long bones create the material for more bone growth, they also help strengthen the bone that's there.  They operate through the absorption and release of particular hormones in a young, growing body, and if they get damaged through injury or disease, the bone growth can be interrupted or even halted.  These growth plates are generally finished with their work by the time a young dog reaches puberty.  The onset of adult hormones shuts them down and the plates naturally close and become hard bone.

This is the main reason most current thinking is to not spay/neuter puppies before they have reached puberty.  With female dogs, it's easy to tell the timing as they come jnto heat for the first time.  It's harder with male dogs because they don't have such an obvious marker for growing up and older.  However, a knowledgeable veterinarian can take an x-ray of the growth plates in a dog's leg and determine if those plates have closed or if they are still active

The main thing you don't want to do is a LOT of unnatural, repetitive stress on the joints and legs - which may be what all the people advising you are indicating.  But, personally, a puppy would need to be running up and down stairs *many many many* times a day for that level to be reached.  As long as he's tall enough to manage the stairs without tripping all over his feet, he should be fine to do them in the course of a normal day..

Here in the US a greyhound puppy at an average puppy farm would spend many hours every day just running and rough housing and playing with his littermates.  This builds muscle and stamina and uses their energy so they eat well and sleep through the night.  It's much more activity than a puppy finds in a home situation.  And there are very few instances of any puppy having growth plate issues - becoming sore, limping, muscle swelling or heat.

So I would not worry at all about an 8.5 month old puppy going up and down the stairs a few times a day.  Mine (male and female) have all gone up and down as they please as soon as they have been able to climb them, and we've had no growth plate issues at all.

If you need help in dealing with his Separation Anxiety in other situations, get the book or e-book "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell for step-by-step instructions on how to have your dog become comfortable being by himself.

[palmettobug]

Thanks Chris! My experience in "puppy" has been my youngest Roman, he came home at 1 yr 9 months, and I swear he grew some more in height and weight.

[Herman]

23 hours ago, greysmom said:

However, almost everybody (breeders, owners, enthusiasts) and not just from the Greyhound world, told me that it was imperative for him not to take the stairs before his legs are fully grown.

 

I've had three greyhound puppies and a few adolescents and I have literally never heard this from anyone - breeder or vet.

Yes, there are certain things you don't want to do or allow them to do before the growth plates (those nobs on the dog's legs they are talking about, I think) have closed.  Those plates are where the long bones create the material for more bone growth, they also help strengthen the bone that's there.  They operate through the absorption and release of particular hormones in a young, growing body, and if they get damaged through injury or disease, the bone growth can be interrupted or even halted.  These growth plates are generally finished with their work by the time a young dog reaches puberty.  The onset of adult hormones shuts them down and the plates naturally close and become hard bone.

This is the main reason most current thinking is to not spay/neuter puppies before they have reached puberty.  With female dogs, it's easy to tell the timing as they come jnto heat for the first time.  It's harder with male dogs because they don't have such an obvious marker for growing up and older.  However, a knowledgeable veterinarian can take an x-ray of the growth plates in a dog's leg and determine if those plates have closed or if they are still active

The main thing you don't want to do is a LOT of unnatural, repetitive stress on the joints and legs - which may be what all the people advising you are indicating.  But, personally, a puppy would need to be running up and down stairs *many many many* times a day for that level to be reached.  As long as he's tall enough to manage the stairs without tripping all over his feet, he should be fine to do them in the course of a normal day..

Here in the US a greyhound puppy at an average puppy farm would spend many hours every day just running and rough housing and playing with his littermates.  This builds muscle and stamina and uses their energy so they eat well and sleep through the night.  It's much more activity than a puppy finds in a home situation.  And there are very few instances of any puppy having growth plate issues - becoming sore, limping, muscle swelling or heat.

So I would not worry at all about an 8.5 month old puppy going up and down the stairs a few times a day.  Mine (male and female) have all gone up and down as they please as soon as they have been able to climb them, and we've had no growth plate issues at all.

If you need help in dealing with his Separation Anxiety in other situations, get the book or e-book "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell for step-by-step instructions on how to have your dog become comfortable being by himself.

Hello,
Thank you for the comprehensive response. Some of the information was already known to me, but fortunately you are never too old to learn, and there was quite a bit of new information in there as well. Well, I don't know why, but I have often heard this from vets, breeders and Greyhound (and other dog species) owners: the cartilage is not mature yet and it can lead to a life of discomfort and even pain if you put too much strain on it. We didn't want to take that risk.

Gradually I see more need in my Grey for activity. From now on I will ride my bike for a few minutes every day at a gentle trot. And also he can calmly go up the stairs once, and down the stairs in the morning for the morning ritual. And if that is an early one, he stays in his crate to sleep some more downstairs.

It is an awful coincidence that we were advised exactly that book last week. Thank you and we are diligently working on it.

All in all, some good advice and I think I'm feeling up to it now. I have seen too many times in my life the effects of neglect or at least wrong decisions in the very young stage of animals and as they get older. Both in cats and dogs. I wanted to avoid making stupid mistakes anyway and therefore inform myself well. He gets a well-balanced diet, the right amount of exercise, and apart from a lot of cuddles, a reasonably firm training. He's a little dragon at times and a lovely sack of potatoes at others.

Again, thanks for your input and in general thanks to others as well!

Greetings from the Netherlands.

[greysmom]

You do want a balanced amount of exercise - some running, some walking, some playing, some wrestling, some formal training - so no joint(s) or bone(s) have too much repetitive stress throughout the day.  5 or 10 minutes at any one activity is usually enough - plus their attention span is still very short!  You need the varying activity/exercise to develop his muscles properly, and stairs are good for that, taken moderately and safely.  He needs to learn to *walk* up and down, and not gallop or jump over the last treads.  We usually use a leash to keep puppies from getting out of control on the stairs.

I love the phrase "little dragon" for a greyhound puppy!!  Here in the US we call them "land sharks" because they are all teeth and never still!! 

 

[EllenEveBaz]

Herman, I had never heard of this before, but I have not had a puppy since I was 7 years old.    I was curious and so have researched on the Internet.  From the little bit I have read, the main concern is for breeds that have high rates of hip dysplasia.  Greyhounds do not have much of that.  And the age of concern is up to 18 weeks, which is 4 1/2 months.  

The good news is, your dog now has you fit to lift him into a car if he does not want to jump in.