Greyhound scared to go outside

[Mikalela]

Hi all, my first post here! We have had our ex-racing greyhound for almost two months and I think she's settling in well. She's lovely and it's amazing to see her coming out of her shell a bit more every day.
The only big problem is with going out for either a walk or toilet. I know this has been discussed so many times before here, and I've read every single thread about it, but I really don't know what to do anymore and I'm afraid it's getting worse. Before the dreadful firework season here in the UK, going out with her was relatively easy and fun, she willingly walked to the door and then out every time that I picked up the leash (well, except for the last walk in the night before bed, that needed a bit of convincing!), but then that stopped entirely: she doesn't want to get up from her bed, walk to the door and then through the door. Once outside she's her usual silly and funny girl though, and being out with her is really a joy, so the problem seems to be just the process of going to the door and then out. So far, we have been able to call her to the kitchen to offer a treat at least to make her get up from her bed, but as soon as she sees the leash she shuts down, and once we are at the door (after a long trail of treats and lots of encouraging words, or sometimes when we don't have time we just resort to carry her - I know...), she starts trembling a lot, and her nose is dripping... it's really heartbreaking to watch. We stay there with the door open, she looks outside and after a while, which can be between 2 and 20 minutes, she calms down and walks through the door herself. I thought it could have also been because it's colder now, so I bought her a coat, but that didn't make any difference unfortunately. I don't want to force her, but on the other side she has to go out at least for the toilet. Any ideas?

[Feefee147]

Oh bless her! 

Firework season was ridiculous this year - every night for weeks. We were out with our grey and some young ruffians who had got hold of fireworks were chuckling them about. One hit a car about 20 feet away, scared the crap out of all of us, and we had a similar issue - subsequent nerves on walks. Luckily he got over it relatively quickly.

 

My grey was a *very* nervous and reluctant walker initially. He still is if only one of his 'pack' takes him out, and not both of us. It used to take 15 - 20 minutes to get him out the door and into a local park which is about 45 seconds away and this went on for months, gradually improving. That said, he was just generally nervous and not reacting to a specific event. 

I'm sure the greyhound 'pro' bods will give you some great tips. The only thing I can really suggest is 'time and patience' which is probably not helpful. And also smelly ham! If your girl is food orientated you may find super smelly treats are enough to distract her and encourage her along - my grey gets so focussed on staring at and following the ham that he forgets his 'I don't want to go out without the whole pack' anxieties. 

As the nerves kick in at the sign of the lead, have you considered perhaps popping it on at various times and just having her wear it indoors here and there with lots of praise and treats? Just so that she starts to associate it with good things and not just scary things?

 

 

 

[Mikalela]

1 hour ago, Feefee147 said:

Oh bless her! 

Firework season was ridiculous this year - every night for weeks. We were out with our grey and some young ruffians who had got hold of fireworks were chuckling them about. One hit a car about 20 feet away, scared the crap out of all of us, and we had a similar issue - subsequent nerves on walks. Luckily he got over it relatively quickly.

 

My grey was a *very* nervous and reluctant walker initially. He still is if only one of his 'pack' takes him out, and not both of us. It used to take 15 - 20 minutes to get him out the door and into a local park which is about 45 seconds away and this went on for months, gradually improving. That said, he was just generally nervous and not reacting to a specific event. 

I'm sure the greyhound 'pro' bods will give you some great tips. The only thing I can really suggest is 'time and patience' which is probably not helpful. And also smelly ham! If your girl is food orientated you may find super smelly treats are enough to distract her and encourage her along - my grey gets so focussed on staring at and following the ham that he forgets his 'I don't want to go out without the whole pack' anxieties. 

As the nerves kick in at the sign of the lead, have you considered perhaps popping it on at various times and just having her wear it indoors here and there with lots of praise and treats? Just so that she starts to associate it with good things and not just scary things?

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your advice, that's super helpful! And I'm glad to hear that your grey improved, it gives me hope! You're right, time and patience is what we need now. It's really a shame because it feels like all the progress made in the first month went out of the window as soon as the first firework went off! And yes, it's been ridiculous this year, even if we live in a quiet area. But I recognise that it's also my fault: I really underestimated the impact that fireworks could have had on her, so I didn't take any precautions (like expose her to recorded sounds in advance), and now we are all paying the consequences

Regarding food, she is food obsessed too which is a blessing, because it's the only thing that makes her move! She adores cheese and I'm using it now to convince her to go out, but I will also try with smelly ham, thank you!

The advice of popping the lead on when inside, with lots of praise and treats is really great, I'll try that too.

Thank you so much for your kind words!

 

[HeyRunDog]

You could try the Adaptil Diffuser to help just to take the edge off her nerves. I used it during this years firework season together with Adaptil Express tablets to help Grace through it and although she was still nervous she wasn't as bad as previously and calmed down quicker. It might help yours get out of the door.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ADAPTIL-starter-Diffuser-behavioural-challenges/dp/B0038XBOJC/ref=sr_1_6?crid=278PNX0XHWMH1&dchild=1&keywords=adaptil+plug+in+for+dogs&qid=1606544904&sprefix=adap%2Caps%2C252&sr=8-6

[smurfette]

Saoirse got startled easily by sudden sounds on our walks. She would panic and try to run either home or to the car. She started to dread walks and tried to avoid them at all costs.  I started her on melatonine chews and after 4 weeks she was a different dog, happy, loves to go out. She can even walk off lead in some areas because she can't be bothered with anything but staying with one of us. I would have never thought that the change would be that completely.

I got the melatonine chews from the UK. 

[Mikalela]

Thank you so much for the replies, they are really helpful! I'll give it a go then.

@HeyRunDog that is really encouraging! Quick question: how do you use the diffuser? Do you keep it plugged in all day or just for a few hours/minutes?

@smurfette that sounds like with my Luna now! Can I just ask you which ones you bought?

Thank you all again, it is really reassuring knowing that you've all been there before and things can improve!

[HeyRunDog]

18 hours ago, Mikalela said:

that is really encouraging! Quick question: how do you use the diffuser? Do you keep it plugged in all day or just for a few hours/minutes?

I kept it plugged in all the time until I was sure the firework season had ended. I'll plug it back in again just before Christmas and keep it on until after the new year. It'll last about a month of continuous use before a refill is needed.

[smurfette]

I sent you a pm

[Feefee147]

On 11/27/2020 at 8:11 PM, Mikalela said:

And I'm glad to hear that your grey improved, it gives me hope!

 

It's probably hard to imagine it now but it does all gradually get better with time. Honest! In three months you'll look back and think 'wow, it was hard to see the progress on a daily basis but she really HAS come a long way'.

I used to worry about everything - was he happy, was he scared, could I give him what he needed - and I agonised over his anxieties and how hard it must be for him. I learnt over time that just being cheery and matter of fact about anything that is worrying him and, in extreme cases, excitedly showing him ham gets him moving past anything :-) Food trumps scary! 

 

[Mikalela]

10 hours ago, HeyRunDog said:

I kept it plugged in all the time until I was sure the firework season had ended. I'll plug it back in again just before Christmas and keep it on until after the new year. It'll last about a month of continuous use before a refill is needed.

Perfect thank you! I'm ordering it now.

 

2 hours ago, Feefee147 said:

I used to worry about everything - was he happy, was he scared, could I give him what he needed - and I agonised over his anxieties and how hard it must be for him. I learnt over time that just being cheery and matter of fact about anything that is worrying him and, in extreme cases, excitedly showing him ham gets him moving past anything :-) Food trumps scary! 

Ahah yeah, same here! I always worry a lot for the same reasons: is she happy? Is she bored? Am I actually helping her or just making things worse? And so on... the thing is, it's been only 2 months but I already adore her so much and I just want her to feel safe and happy. Thank you so much for the lovely message, it means a lot!

[1Moregrey]

You could try clicker training.  I had one greyhound that got so excited to clicker train she knocked down a baby gate from a doorway to train.  Normally a string taped across a doorway would keep her out.  You could start by associating the leash with treats,  then walking in the direction of the door.  Until you work up to getting out side. (Break down each part/step of getting out the door go slow and she will get it)

There are some good clicker videos if you can not find a clicker trainer.  If you do the videos I suggest practicing your reward timing by having someone bounce a tennis ball and clicking as it hits the ground.  Will help you learn how to click for the behavior you want to reward.

Hope this helps

[Mikalela]

@1Moregrey Sorry for the late reply, I missed the notification. Thank you so much for the suggestion, that sounds really useful! I’ll have a look, thanks.

Adaptil and calming chews are now on their way, and in the meantime I’m trying different things: giving her treats and praise when we put the lead on and leave it on at random times, leaving a trail of treats to the door when it's time to go and scattering treats near the door at random times. I've noticed that she's a bit less stressed about the entire thing now, and she spends considerably less time at the door, only slightly shaking. The only thing that takes a lot of time is to convince her to get up: for example yesterday it took an hour, with lots of cheese and praise.

However, she is now associating getting up from her bed with going out, even when it’s not the case at all (like when I call her to do some training, play or whatever), so she’s leaving her bed less and less frequently. It’s a shame really, she used to stay with us in the kitchen every time we were there, and hang around in other rooms every now and then, but now she spends most of the day in her bed instead. Maybe she's trying to make herself invisible? I don't want her to think that every time she gets up she has to go out, so I even tried to let her be, hoping that she would give me a signal once she was ready to go, but instead she just got up really quick to pee on the floor!

Oh what a mess...

I know I sound frustated, but more than everything I feel a bit sad, because sometimes it feels like we are just co-habiting. I'm worried that I'm not fully understanding her and in some way I'm making her fears getting worse.

On the bright side though, this morning she was super excited about the (little) snow that we had and she started to jump around me like a little kangaroo, with her tail going in all directions - it was really funny and I’ve never seen her so happy! And last weekend we went for a long walk in the woods and she loved it, it was a really nice moment. So it’s not all bad at all! Time and patience, time and patience!

[Feefee147]

59 minutes ago, Mikalela said:On the bright side though, this morning she was super excited about the (little) snow that we had and she started to jump around me like a little kangaroo, with her tail going in all directions - it was really funny and I’ve never seen her so happy! And last weekend we went for a long walk in the woods and she loved it, it was a really nice moment. So it’s not all bad at all! Time and patience, time and patience!

 

You had snow??!! I didn't get any. Just rain - I LOVE snow. Leave the dog.... take me out for a walk :-) 

It sounds as though when she IS outside she's loving the walks, so that's brilliant. Well done! You've clearly made her feel relaxed and confident enough outdoors to let her excited nature shine through. 

I do think greys generally just have absolutely no idea what they are supposed to do in the strange alien place now known as home. A couple of things I tried that you could give a go if you haven't already... 

* I trained a specific whistle (just a little set tune). It was mainly for recall when I optimistically assumed he would be off lead at some point (no chance - he'd chase a squirrel to Scotland) and he learnt that if he came he would get a lovely treat and a lot of excited praise. He was very aloof and introverted, with anxieties over being touched, so it was a good way to get him up and interacting once he realised whistle = nice treat. You could try something like this?

* All sorts of different noisy toys (yep - I looked an idiot in the pet shop!) - see which ones get her interest. Mine loves one particular type of squeaky ball and will come running if he hears it, the rest he'll completely ignore

* Short training and/or play sessions regularly throughout the day - enough to engage and excite her but not enough for her to think "oh god, what now. I'm tired..." :-)

* I'm very vocal and chatty and put on an excited voice for absolutely everything to start with. He now knows excited voice = something good. Even if it's just a carrot from the fridge he'll come running over to excitedly investigate

* Lots of treat toys - kong, licking stuff, peanut butter spread on old bone, puzzles...etc. Put nearby and her curiosity will get her up and over to it eventually! Perhaps leaving something tasty for her to investigate when she is ready, not paying her any attention and then gently praising her when she does have a sniff or a play may give her the confidence to start wandering around without thinking it will result in a walk or having to come to you? 

You've potentially tried this sort of thing and I'm stating the obvious! And it may well be that she's just not that fussed about getting up. Time will tell! 

I hope you're doing ok! 

 

[HeyRunDog]

It looks like for some reason she's developed an irrational fear of the journey from bed to the outside and I wonder if your coaxing and cajoling are giving her time to think the worst. Also by giving/tempting her with treats are having the opposite effect and she sees them as a reward for staying where she is.  It might be worth trying putting a slip lead on her, firmly pulling her up with the command "let's go" and walking her quickly outside before rewarding her. It might sound harsh but I think it's got to the stage where drastic action is needed.

[Mikalela]

@Feefee147 ahah yes, just a bit of snow, and even a thundersnow last night that scared the ** out of everyone! It was so loud and Luna was obviously not impressed, we've been awake since 4 this morning 

 I'm doing pretty much everything that you mentioned, except for the whistle, with mixed success: I'm still trying to find a toy that would keep her interest alive for more than let's say 3 seconds eheh, she doesn't seem to be into toys but maybe I still have to find the one! I'm planning I trip to the pet shot this weekend so we'll see.

 

@HeyRunDog you know, you might be right. I was worried that I'm actually rewarding her staying put rather than encouraging to get up - so from now on no more treats when she's in her bed and I'll keep the whole thing short. I've tried using a slip lead (I've seen it recommended here so many times!), but she goes dead weight when I pull her up and she would get chocked rather than get up, so I'm worried to hurt her - has this ever happened to you?

[HeyRunDog]

15 hours ago, Mikalela said:

I've tried using a slip lead (I've seen it recommended here so many times!), but she goes dead weight when I pull her up and she would get chocked rather than get up, so I'm worried to hurt her - has this ever happened to you?

Yes. Grace went through a phase of not wanting to go for her evening walk and would lie shaking on her bed. Treats, no matter how smelly, would entice her to move. In the end I took the decision that this can't go on and something had to change. I put her fishtail collar and lead on and and firmly dragged her up and walked quickly outside then gave her a treat. I only had to do it two or three times and now she's happy to go for a walk any time.

[Mikalela]

Ah that gives me hope! Somehow my partner managed to pull her up last night without strangling her like it happened with me (maybe because he's taller), so we might try this again when everything else fails or when it's dragging on for too long. I agree with you that she's developing this weird fear and probably my behaviour is encouraging it rather than fixing it. I will report back! Thank you again for all your help!

[Mikalela]

Hi again! Sorry to bother you again but I have another update, this time a bit weird though: after a nice and relaxing weekend where she followed us around from room to room while we we busy doing other stuff (never I'm the kitchen though) and some long lovely walks, tonight we had a super strange twist. We called her to the kitchen to give her some leftover roast chicken but she ignored us, as usual. I want her to feel comfortable again in the kitchen as before, so we left the treats in her food bowl and went on with our evening. At some point, she went to the kitchen alone, ate the food, and peed right in front of the food bowl!  She didn't need to go, we just went out a few hours before, and in fact it was just a small amount, what I usually call her "emotional pee" (like when she pees after a bit of stress or excitement when we are out).

I'm a bit perplexed to be honest. Could it be because she was alone, in the dark and "super scary" kitchen? Or something else? I really don't understand. I can't remember anything traumatic ever happened there, and she happily has her meals twice a day in the kitchen. 

I'm calling the vet tomorrow just in case, but in the meantime do you have any ideas? Thank you all again!

Ah, just to add: I've started with adaptil now and I can see her a bit more relaxed in general, but still fearful to go out. I guess that will take a bit of time though!

[HeyRunDog]

7 hours ago, Mikalela said:

Ah, just to add: I've started with adaptil now and I can see her a bit more relaxed in general, but still fearful to go out. I guess that will take a bit of time though!

As with everything to do with greyhounds time, patience and a sense of humour are the basic requirements then suddenly the switch goes on in their brain and they look at you as if to say "what's all this fuss about, no problems here"

Could the peeing just be her way of marking her territory? Having said that Grace often goes for a pee after her evening meal so perhaps you need to give her the opportunity to go out as soon as she's finished eating.