I Need Help With Walking A Huge Puppy!

[Guest kahjul]

Carl (Greysave 6) is now almost a year old. He has been walking with me on a leash since he was quite small. He does great alone or with the other greys. He responds to 'watch me' reliably, doesn't tug after cats or other dogs, stays on the side I want, etc. We recently moved out of city limits so we are now walking on wide dirt country roads instead of city sidewalks. The first 3 houses on either side of me have multiple dogs that fence fight. So once we leave the driveway, we have almost 1/4 mile of 8-10 dogs running, barking, growling, etc. Once we get past them we're fine. We encounter the occasional dog yard, but that's okay, it seems to be the completely overwhelming, both sides of the street, several houses worth that I cannot overcome. I've taken him out with 1 or both adults, hoping he would learn from them that he doesn't need to freak out (they don't), but it doesn't help at all. I've tried handfuls of hot dog to reinforce the 'watch me'. He could care less. I've tried repeatedly changing directions (so like we never leave the bad area) every time he pulls or gets wired with no success. I've tried pinching him to get his attention back on me-he doesn't care. I've tried squirting him with water-he doesn't care. He pulls so incredibly hard, often barking, wanting to run the fence with these dogs, I'm afraid he's going to hurt his neck. Crosses back in forth in front of me (I've stepped on his toes many times). Just like no brain. As soon as we're past the chaos, he's back to walking right along. Advice?

[krissn333]

Wow...that's a tough one! I'm no expert - I'd have tried some of the things you have already tried.

 

I'm sure someone here will have some advice and some more things to try though!

Edited May 7, 2014 by krissn333

[Roo]

This reminds me of so many mutts I worked with at the shelter... One huge shepherd mix - Bruno - in particular. He was extremely reactive and walking past the row of kennels always set him off - he'd be okay, then latch onto a kennel door and it was difficult (and scary) trying to get him off.

 

What I learned was to keep the leash SHORT and walk FAST. For the walk through the kennels, I had my hand basically against the side of his neck with the leash wrapped securely around my hand and clenched in my fist. Though my hand was clenched, I was relaxed and tried to focus on feeling positive. He had to sit while I put the leash on and opened the door, then I said a cheery "Let's go!" and took off speed-walking down the aisle. Everyone knew to get out of my way because we WOULD NOT stop Anyway, it took a lot of repetition (we'd do that on the way outside, then I'd exercise him, then we'd go inside and walk up and down the aisles a few times while he was already tired - here we practiced "sit" while distracted and he did fairly well after a while) but he learned that he didn't need to attack the cages and I was able to walk him on a looser leash.

 

The moral of that is short leash + fast walking = less chance for him to get worked up. Start small if you have to - if he gets overly excited from the time you step out the door, practice going in and out a bunch of times until he realizes it's really boring unless he doesn't freak out. Once you start walking, if you can, I'd try holding him close to his collar (as close as the leash will allow without there being a lot of tension on it), saying "Let's go!" or whatever your walking command is, and walking as fast as you possibly can without running - no matter which direction he tries to go, you just keep walking purposefully straight. You can jog if you want to, I suppose... Once you're past the houses, exercise him until he's out of energy, then walk up and down the gauntlet of dogs a couple times - when dogs are already tired, getting really worked up is a lot of effort. Bring high value treats and when he's tired from exercise, try "Watch me" and see if he responds. If he does, practice that!

 

Calm and optimistic and confident should be your key words!

 

Of course, my experience was with an extremely muscular, high-strung, head-strong 'shepherd mix' with reactive/dog aggressive tendencies and not nearly enough exercise (he also LOVED cats, and not in a good way), so it may be totally different with a greyhound. All the awesome trainer folk on here, please correct me if I'm wrong

[Brandiandwe]

What she said.

 

A short leash stops momentum and space needed for big reactions and allows you to keep control. Fast walking works well. Other than that, till you get him settled so he can learn, you can't start positive reinforcement or anything else.

[Remolacha]

One thing that might help your control (and keep him from injuring his neck) is to use a harness instead of a collar. I had a large (90 lbs) very leash reactive greyhound, and the harness, and a leash with a "handle" so I could keep him on a very short leash when I needed to, really helped a lot. I was more in control. and I think the harness actually made him feel more secure as well.

[o_rooly]

Scritchies for Carl!! I loved watching him grow on the puppycam My Aston is also a GreySave hound.

When we adopted Aston at age six, he would cry and prance on walks whenever ANY dog was within eye- or ear-shot. Spotting a little dog meant that he'd fixate and affix his laser-eyes on them, stalking them, with nothing I could do to pull his attention away, short of trying to body-block his stare (which still didn't work) -- he has always had a very high prey drive. While it's not the exact same behavior that Carl is exhibiting, Aston's seemed to be a display of sensory overload with his particular triggers -- other dogs are super-exciting, and little dogs are SUPER-enticing. What worked for us was clicker-training... in particular, "Look at That!" training, as it is mentioned here on GreyTalk.
Please check out the following thread -- there's lots of good input here about the same type of issue -- learning focus & self-control around triggers: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/302372-leash-reactivity-bounced-foster-dog/
My post in that thread links to a "Look at That!" thread that contains video demonstrations.

As I mention in that thread, I really had to start slow in order to not push Aston past his threshold, because I would lose his attention completely at that point, and he'd go into a cry/prance/stare meltdown... if that happened, I would try to turn him away / around the trigger(s), attempt to finish the walk elsewhere more quietly, and try again on the next walk. At first, I was click/treating about every two seconds to catch Aston before he engaged, but was able to fairly quickly (over a few weeks of doing this on every walk) extend that threshold, and now he rarely kicks up a fuss, even if I'm not treating.
Aaand -- if you don't want to monopolize a hand by carrying a clicker on your walks, adopt a particular phrase/word in a special tone that takes the clicker's place, and only use that word/tone in times when you would click. For Aston, I have a really high-pitched, quick, emphatic GOODboy! that I'm sure makes me sound nuts on walks

Hope this helps!!

[Guest Houston1219]

Not much by way of training advice to offer, but my first thought was the car lol. Jump in the car, drive to the end of the block, hop out and take your normal walk. It's not really a solution but more of a cheat to get you through until you are ready to face dog alley!

[cleptogrey]

as to the fence fighting it's one of those things that i give a quick jerk or nock w/ my knee and tell my dogs to knock it off. i generally walk as far away from the situation since it's such a natural instinct. with loose dogs i always make sure that i shush the dogs as well and walk on the other side of the street or change directions, i'm not a fan of an encounter- i do scream "go home" to the wandering dog and "no" "go" in a pretty nasty tone. but your loose dogs sound like locals and it's what they do. they are most likely nicer than what we have wandering in yonkers.

 

what kind of leash and collar are you using. tools are very very important.it's like having a car w/ good tires, brakes and shocks- all necessary for performance. i like krissy have gone thru puppy hood and adolescence(which lasts forever) w/ greyhounds. are you enrolled in any sort of obedience classes? they really help in the long run.

 

max200 agility has the best prices on equipment- the worst web site but great prices. here's a couple of links:

 

during that period of felix's life i used this http://www.max200.com/max_storefront/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=699

and this http://www.max200.com/max_storefront/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=107(not sure of the size you need but the 5/8" or 3/4" should work, go lupine if you want more decorative- medium dog size)

and this http://www.max200.com/max_storefront/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=162(cotton webbed leash if you don't want to go leather or biothane)

and here is a 1/2" leather lead- best prices around http://www.max200.com/max_storefront/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=149

 

bud at k9noz makes biothane leads and collars, i love them http://k9noz.com. if you want to try the heavier biothane then just talk to him about weight- the yellow reflective is my favorite.

 

good luck, adolescence is a killer! but all of us who have survived it are here to say- "this too will pass" and "classes"

[Guest kahjul]

He leaves the house like a gentleman, because we don't always go that way. If we turn left, no gauntlet! However really ouchy rocky ground a ways down so we can't go as far. If we turn right, he stays quiet until the gauntlet starts, then leaps up, forward, pulls, occasionally barks until we're past it. I actually tied a 'handle' in his leash so I hold him right at the collar and we speed walk the whole walk-momma needs her exercise! I considered a harness, but I'm afraid he'll put his chest into and I'll not be able to hold him. As soon as we're past the problem, he's good. Then after 2 or 3 miles we have to pass them again to come home and it starts all over. I'll try really exhausting him this weekend, maybe we can get 6 miles in or so, then see if he'll focus a bit in that area.

[scullysmum]

I would use a Halti, but I don't know if you can get them or something similar in your part of the world?

 

I used one for Sadi, it gives much better control as you can put the dogs head where you want it, I used it with a special leash with a clip at either end, one attached to the halti and the other to the collar.

 

[Guest kahjul]

I have a Halti for my lab and had considered it, but decided it would probably make him too crazy. I think I'll try it tomorrow in addition to the regular set-up.

[cleptogrey]

the halti isn't really a training tool. once it's off the dogs are back to what they started with. there's lots of rubbing and i tried fitting one on a greyhound w/ no luck. i had a couple of different styles for sale at our group's annual picnic. i sell the gently used greyhound goods. i personally did not like the fit of any of them. if you decide to use one make sure your leash goes three the loop on the halti and is also hooked up w/ your martingale. the premier collars seem to have bigger center loops.

 

my daughter uses one on one of her rescue dogs, she's part scent hound and really is nose to the ground and nothing stops her. she was the model dog in obedience classes but once she's outside...OMG! dd is a pretty good handler too. i've taken the maggie dog on long hikes and walks when i visit, the halti is the only thing that does work for her. trust me, dd has all of my smaller dog's training collars.

 

so, if it works and you secure it to a martingale, go for it.

[krissy]

the halti isn't really a training tool. once it's off the dogs are back to what they started with.

That's because people don't actually train the dog when they use a halti. The halti simply gives you more control so the dog can't surprise you if it darts. You still have to actually train by showing the dog that the darting was a mistake and rewarding good loose leash walking when it happens. You can't simply put a halti on and expect it to train the dog for you. It doesn't train your dog any more than a collar or harness train your dog, it only gives you more control while YOU train the dog.

[scullysmum]

the halti isn't really a training tool. once it's off the dogs are back to what they started with.

 

The halti is as much a training tool as any leash, collar or harness, its purpose is to allow you to control the dog while you are training it, no device is going to help you if you dont actually do the training with it. I have never had trouble fitting a grey with a halti either.

[cleptogrey]

the trainers here in the ny area are who i am quoting. they found that they just couldn't get the results, the dogs didn't obtain their behavioral goals and the halti always had to be used on those dogs. the dogs never graduated to a buckle collar- one of the goals at the two schools i have worked my dogs with.

 

but as you read, dd's dog uses one, it works...but she always needs to use it. if the shoe fits, wear it. i'm just quoting the thoughts of the numerous trainers that i have worked w/ over the years.

[krissy]

the trainers here in the ny area are who i am quoting. they found that they just couldn't get the results, the dogs didn't obtain their behavioral goals and the halti always had to be used on those dogs. the dogs never graduated to a buckle collar- one of the goals at the two schools i have worked my dogs with.

 

If the trainer worked with those dogs 24/7 instead of the owners I bet the dogs would learned just fine. It's not that the trainers can't get results, it's that they can't get the owners to get results.

 

I haven't had the best of luck with dogs on food allergy trials. Doesn't mean the food doesn't work... it means, in most cases, I can't get good enough owner compliance with my instructions.

 

If I trained Kili the same way with a halti as I have with her martingale her leash manners would be in the exact same place. I never tried a halti because she was never bad enough to begin with that I felt I needed the extra control. But how I trained her would have been identical and once I had better control I would have continued the training... but on a martingale.

[Guest kahjul]

The halti was AMAZING! This morning we went right out, past the gauntlet no pulling at all. He actually was so distracted by the thing on his face that he never needed any restraint. I was able to do lots of watch me's and turns all on a nice leash with contact but no pressure. I know once the weirdness wears off I'll have more to do, but this morning it was nice to just go for a pleasant walk with my shoulder and his neck in tact!