Help Please: Senior Losing Weight, Diarrhea...

[WHanson12]

Will drive me nuts using incomplete sentences, but will do so to detail as much as possible. Greytly appreciate anyone's feedback/suggestions...

 

Our 12 yr old Grey girl, Molly, vomiting & diarrhea started Feb 1st. No more vomiting other than that 1st day; diarrhea every time she poops--sometimes squirting out (no visible blood to date), frequent nausea; still eating (better the last coupla days); on bland diet since issues started--boiled chickn & rice, canned i/d or canned Iams intestinal . Molly has lost at least 8# so far, is losing muscle strength & is more unstable on her hind legs than usual (has arthritis in multiple joints as well as cervical pain that causes nerve pain/disturbances in her hind quarters prior to these issues). Lately she is alert & responsive, even playful at times, interacting w/ our other younger Grey girl & has been eating every time I feed her (small amounts 3 times a day).

 

Initial bloodwork revealed elevated pancreatic enzymes;local vet treated for pancreatitis (Flagyl, Reglan, Prostora, subq fluids a couple times, 3 doses of Panacur, Amoxi for a couple days, but interfered w/ her appetite/nausea...) Supportive care for pancreatitis not resolving the diarrhea to date. Fecal was negative (not diagnostic, in my opinion: after Panacur, looking for coccidia); Abdominal & chest xrays normal; abdominal ultrasound no significant findings in intestines although there's a 2 cm nodule on her liver & her spleen is enlarged but looks grossly normal. Specialty vet who performed the US said liver nodule would not cause the GI issues. Will address liver nodule/spleen after stabilizing diarrhea condition.

Had blood panels done: cortisol & bile acids were normal (no Addison's or underlying liver dysfunction); awaiting results of GI/pancreas panel.

 

I've read the forums on IBD & diarrhea...I can't locate the posts I found last week about fecal/intestinal cultures that should be done as it was found in that specific case that there was an overgrowth of normal flora in the intestine that was the cause. Can anyone direct me to this topic or provide more info about this?

 

Thanks for any insight, feedback, suggestions & positive prayers you can offer Molly & I...

 

P.S. Don't have a smart phone or tablet, so my responses may be a bit delayed (also live in the SE)...

Edited February 26, 2014 by WHanson12

[Guest Lillypad]

Sorry not informed enough to offer advice, but will offer the very best of wishes and prayers for a speedy resolution.

[greyhead]

I'm one of the ones who had a grey with small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). I'll try to find links for you to the threads. It practically took an act of congress to get a culture-and-sensitivity test for fecal bacteria, but when we finally just ordered it done, it was positive for Clostridium. So sorry you're going through this. At her age, you need to get this under control fast, I'd think. I'll be back with whatever info I can dig up.

 

ETA: I found Spencer's first SIBO thread after he was diagnosed, but I can't get the URL to copy here. So I'll type it by hand, and you can copy it into your browser.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/225238-chronic-diarrhea/?hl=clostridium%2C+sibo

 

This might be good to read too:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580

Edited February 26, 2014 by greyhead

[DesiRayMom]

I had nearly the same issue with my old houndx. Nausea, diarrhea, no appetite, weight loss. xrays, ultrasound, bloodwork pretty much normal.

Sent out GI panel, came back low cobalamin. What has worked for him is Prilosec every day for the excess stomach acid causing nausea;

Budesonide (low-dose steroid targets/calms gut) every day; and injection of vitamin B12 once every 2 weeks. This has made a world of

difference in his quality of life. Hope your GI panel results give you something to work with.

[Batmom]

Try Tylan instead of Flagyl.

[WHanson12]

Sorry not informed enough to offer advice, but will offer the very best of wishes and prayers for a speedy resolution.

 

Thank you for your good wishes & prayers--these are ALWAYS welcome & appreciated!

[WHanson12]

I'm one of the ones who had a grey with small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). I'll try to find links for you to the threads. It practically took an act of congress to get a culture-and-sensitivity test for fecal bacteria, but when we finally just ordered it done, it was positive for Clostridium. So sorry you're going through this. At her age, you need to get this under control fast, I'd think. I'll be back with whatever info I can dig up.

 

ETA: I found Spencer's first SIBO thread after he was diagnosed, but I can't get the URL to copy here. So I'll type it by hand, and you can copy it into your browser.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/225238-chronic-diarrhea/?hl=clostridium%2C+sibo

 

This might be good to read too:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580

 

Greyhead: THANKS SO MUCH for providing this info. I will discuss this with Molly's specialty vet & see what she says, after I get the results back from the outstanding GI/pancreas panel. How is your Grey with SIBO doing now? Fortunately Molly's appetite is increasing & is eating everything I offer her (all bland diet--boiled chikn & rice, canned intestinal diets). I think she's starting to put some weight back on already...

[WHanson12]

Try Tylan instead of Flagyl.

 

Thanks so much, Batmom. Is Tylan by prescription only & if not, where to obtain it & at what dosage?

 

Can anyone advise whether Slippery Elm would be recommended for Molly's seemingly chronic diarrhea issue (depending on pending bloodwork)? If so, where to purchase, any specific brand & what dosage?

 

Thanks again to all who are responding--this is such a greyt resource with such caring Greyt Moms & Dads!!!

[Batmom]

Tylan: Get it from your vet (antibiotic). For most greyhound-sized dogs, dose is 1/4 teaspoon twice a day but your vet will know. It is a powder, and it's said to be foul-tasting. Some people buy empty capsules to put it in. I take a blob of soft canned food @ the size of half an egg, flatten it into a thin patty, put the Tylan powder in the middle, carefully fold it back up into a meatball, give meatball to dog. If your dog is suspicious of such things, it can help to give a small "empty" meatball or two first -- then they usually just gulp the next one.

 

Not a miracle medicine but sometimes works very well and very quickly when Flagyl (metronidazole) does not.

[silverfish]

To be honest, with a senior having gone on so long with this kind of wasting and no improvement, I would be asking for a referral. Once they lose enough weight, all kinds of other things seem to go wrong with the older and more vulnerable hounds and it can be so hard for them to pick up again.

I'm probably one of those who go too early rather than later for a referral these days, but I've now lost three dogs I feel could have been saved if they'd been diagnosed sooner, and each time we have been referred to a specialist centre, they've put their fingers on the problem really quickly.

[greyhead]

You're most welcome, and I'm so glad if it's helpful. I found that self-educating was pretty much essential in getting Spencer through his ordeal. It started with his starting to chew on wood in the house, and I happened to see something saying that could be a sign of anemia. The vet ran the cobalamin/folate test and found him low on cobalamin, which indicates intestinal malabsorption and *may* indicate SIBO. But since he didn't respond to a low dose of tylosin, the vet concluded he didn't have SIBO. Long story short, I spent every waking moment on the internet, researching what could be causing his stinky, increasingly yellow pudding poop. And he was needing to go out 4 times a night. So as you know, a poop culture was positive for Clostridium, an anaerobic bacterium that would have been fatal if not treated, and it took three antibiotics to do it. After that, he still wasn't entirely right, so we did an ultrasound, and that showed he had developed IBD. So we spent the next four years treating him for that. He did pretty well on the treatment, though, which had budesonide (instead of prednisone) as its centerpiece.

 

Spencer went to the bridge almost a year ago, from complications of drugs given for an ultrasound and biopsy. We were looking at the liver to account for his steadily increasing liver values, and the testing didn't really show anything. So he didn't pass from all that GI stuff anyway. He was only 8 years old when his troubles started, though, and I have to agree with the poster who said to consider her age. If you do get a referral and they want a biopsy in order to diagnose, I would resist that, especially at her age. Also, as long as this has gone on, I'm not sure tylosin would be strong enough. Flagyl was one of the three meds Spencer had to take for his SIBO, but there were two others (simplicef and clindamycin, I think?) that he needed first. *Really* recommend the poop culture, ASAP, to see what she's dealing with. It takes several days to get results. (I used a very clean container and held it under Spencer, so the only germs in that container were the ones in the poop.)

Edited February 26, 2014 by greyhead

[WHanson12]

Batmom: thanks for the add'l Tylan info.

 

Silverfish: I agree with you. I don't mess around too long with any of our greyhound health issues & will seek a referral earlier than later. Molly is currently under the care of a specialty internist at a practice recommended by someone on Greytalk--Upstate Veterinary Specialists in Greenville, SC. Before moving to SC, our grey girls were patients of OSU-VMC in Columbus, OH. Dr. Couto worked closely with me in unsuccessfully treating one of our grey girls who succumbed to a disease rare in greys, ITP (immune mediated thrombocytopenia). I miss having those resources close by, but I'll always do what's best for our greys, as I know all of you greytalk members do also. Thanks for your feedback.

 

Greyhead: THANKS SO MUCH!! So sorry to hear that Spencer is at the bridge--I must have missed reading that somewhere. Please accept my sincerest condolences & apologies for asking how he's doing now. I appreciate all the greyt info you've provided about Spencer's SIBO condition. I agree with your take on a biopsy at Molly's age. Hopefully she won't need a biopsy for the liver nodule, but that's another issue to be addressed in the near future.

Does the budesonide produce less side effects than pred? I hate the side effects of long term pred use--how it makes the grey feel & act on it--totally changes their personality (not for the better).

[Burpdog]

My $8 diagnostic test: buy some BilJac frozen and use that only and see if the diarrehea resolves. If it does not, there is a problem you have to find.

 

Also, with everything she has had, give her 3-4 acidolphillus pills a day

[Houndtime]

Fuzzy had diarrhea for almost three weeks in the summer. He lost 11 lbs. Nothing was working, and, all the tests showed negative for everything. The next step was a biopsy and colonoscopy. I took a step back and said, he has been on prednisone, tylan, flagyl, special foods (3 different kinds), and wormed. I was thinking all these different things in three weeks was wrecking his system. I posted on GHL and asked for advice. Several things came up; raw food, chicken and rice, etc. One was the veterinarians potato diet. http://www.crvetcenter.com/recipe_potatodiet.php In twelve hours he had soild stools. After four days, I put him on limited protein duck and sweet potato for three weeks and then transitioned him back to IAMs. He has gained all the weight back and what made him sick? Who knows? He is fine now and that is all we care about; $1300 later. I hope you can find a solution for your dog. Fuzzy is 9 years old.

[greyhead]

WHanson, no need to apologize at all. My siggie picture is misleading since Spencer isn't wearing his halo! And I'm totally over being sensitive about it.

 

Budesonide targets the GI tract specifically, so you don't get the wide-ranging generalized SE's of pred, including weight loss. Spencer was on pred for three days, before we even knew he had SIBO or IBD, and dropped 5 lbs on the spot. Later, when we discovered the IBD, we went straight to budesonide and got excellent results. (If you use pred and then switch to budesonide, there has to be a wash-out period of at least two weeks, which is a long time for a dog in distress.) The only SE was fur loss. But greyhounds only need half the dose that other dogs should take, which is important to know because they can overdose on it.

Edited February 26, 2014 by greyhead

[WHanson12]

My $8 diagnostic test: buy some BilJac frozen and use that only and see if the diarrehea resolves. If it does not, there is a problem you have to find.

 

Also, with everything she has had, give her 3-4 acidolphillus pills a day

 

Thank you, Burpdog! I appreciate your feedback & suggestions!! Our other Grey girl, Mae, is a HUGE "burper" also!!

Fuzzy had diarrhea for almost three weeks in the summer. He lost 11 lbs. Nothing was working, and, all the tests showed negative for everything. The next step was a biopsy and colonoscopy. I took a step back and said, he has been on prednisone, tylan, flagyl, special foods (3 different kinds), and wormed. I was thinking all these different things in three weeks was wrecking his system. I posted on GHL and asked for advice. Several things came up; raw food, chicken and rice, etc. One was the veterinarians potato diet. http://www.crvetcenter.com/recipe_potatodiet.php In twelve hours he had soild stools. After four days, I put him on limited protein duck and sweet potato for three weeks and then transitioned him back to IAMs. He has gained all the weight back and what made him sick? Who knows? He is fine now and that is all we care about; $1300 later. I hope you can find a solution for your dog. Fuzzy is 9 years old.

 

Houndtime, thanks so much for your info & suggestions! Very interesting diet--I may have to try this one! So glad to hear that Fuzzy is doing well now--good thing you said enough is enough in such a short period of time. Thanks for your good wishes too.

WHanson, no need to apologize at all. My siggie picture is misleading since Spencer isn't wearing his halo! And I'm totally over being sensitive about it.

 

Budesonide targets the GI tract specifically, so you don't get the wide-ranging generalized SE's of pred, including weight loss. Spencer was on pred for three days, before we even knew he had SIBO or IBD, and dropped 5 lbs on the spot. Later, when we discovered the IBD, we went straight to budesonide and got excellent results. (If you use pred and then switch to budesonide, there has to be a wash-out period of at least two weeks, which is a long time for a dog in distress.) The only SE was fur loss. But greyhounds only need half the dose that other dogs should take, which is important to know because they can overdose on it.

 

Thanks so much again, greyhead. Good to know about Budesonide--I was unfamiliar with that drug; sounds like a good alternative to pred. I greytly appreciate all your info & feedback. You've been VERY helpful & so caring too. THANKS!

P.S. Greyhead: our Molly looks very similar to your Shane!! They are all beauties!