Help! Any Hope With Cats?

[Guest smudgebear]

Hi, sorry this is long, but I need some advice from people with experience cat testing greyhounds. As background, our boy Shadow passed from lymphsarcoma in November. We weren't planning on adopting again for a few more months, but a greyhound mix girl caught our eye on Petfinder. She's being fostered by an all breed rescue who pulls dogs from high kill shelters in the south and sends them north for adoption (we are in CT). She's clearly predominantly greyhound, maybe with a little bit of some other type of hound mixed in there. She's still in a foster home down south and our decision on whether to go through with the adoption is predicated on her compatibility with cats as we have two of them. Unfortunately she's not being fostered with cats, only dogs, so we have to base our decision on cat tests alone. The first test took place earlier this week and another one is going to happen today. Here's what happened based on the foster mom's description of test #1:

When she was first introduced to the cat she first tried to avoid it and refused to make eye contact, but with prompting from the foster mom she did sniff the cat when the cat wasn't looking. So far so good. The cat then started rolling around on the floor in front of the dog who then tried to sniff her again. This is when things get dicey. The cat jumped up suddenly, evidently startling the dog, and dog grabbed her around the neck. No growling or bristling or barking, though. She didn't shake the cat or anything. The cat freaked, dog let go and the cat was unharmed (thank goodness).

Upon hearing this I was rather shocked that a muzzle was not used as a precaution, but I get the impression that they don't cat test large dogs as often. When I mentioned this the foster mom acknowledged that she should have thought of that and offered to try again, this time with a muzzle. Second test is today.

Anyway, my conundrum is that up until the dog grabbed the cat she was actually doing really well. The test was flawed IMO given the lack of muzzle, and the foster mom also was concerned she may have pushed too hard for the dog to interact with the cat when her initial reaction was avoidance. It also struck me that if that dog was truly aggressive with cats she would not have let it go as easily as she did, with no harm done. She showed amazing restraint actually.

We feel really drawn to this girl, but it's a big leap to bring her all the way up here to New England only to find out she won't work out with our cats. That said, I would certainly be taking lots of precautions during the introduction phase and they would not be left unsupervised together. My instinct is that she is probably cat workable and would be able to adjust to living with cats after some training, but I'm not very experienced in what deems a grey "cat safe" (Shadow was a huge wimp with the cats from day one) so I'm hoping to get some feedback from those who are. Based on the above, do you think this is a dog who is cat workable? I'm hoping to get some more clarity after the second test and I'll post those results too.

Thanks for reading!

[krissy]

I don't really have experience with testing dogs. However, for myself, a dog has to show that it is reliably safe with small critters before it is ever allowed to become an adoption consideration. There is just no room for error in my mind. All other animals were here first and take priority over any new dog. If there is any doubt in the testing then I'm no longer interested.

 

The test may have been flawed, the dog MAY be cat workable. But at the end of the day... the dog put a cat in its mouth. That doesn't exactly happen by accident.

 

Those are just my feelings. As I said though, small animal safety is my top priority. The dog can be perfect in every other way but if I'm not sure about its cat/small animal test I will pass every time (and I have).

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

If the dog wasn't trying to make contact and only grabbed after pressed and perhaps a little scared, I wouldn't automatically take that as a bad sign. Since she wasn't raring after the cat before and after the incident I'd vote she's workable at the very least.

 

When my grey first saw my chickens she was understandably very interested in eating them. It took months of training before I felt safe enough that I could relax my worry about the dog accidentally being let out while the birds were loose. Ever since her second Gotcha day I've been able to have her and the chickens all loose in the yard together with no incidents.

 

If the dog isn't fixating, which it doesn't sound like she is, it's probable things can work out. Mine had been fostered with cats, but pulled on her leash and lunged at mine when she first came in the house. In her case she was 3 and very excitable (still is at 7, crazy thing) but after one cat smacked her across her nose she backed off and refused to make eye contact with either cat for at least a month.

[brianamac]

Sounds like the dog may workable (as she didn't fixate), but to me 'workability' has a multitude of factors involved: layout of your house, personality of your cats, but most of all how much time you are willing to commit to being diligent all the time.

If you don't have the layout/willingness to separate the cats and the dog to allow you to do normal house things (laundry, showers, etc), be prepared to spend a LOT of time supervising and training--even when she is muzzled. This can take days for some, but weeks or months for others.

One of our fosters chased the cats heavily but learned after a couple of weeks with consistent supervision and training.

Another foster (who we've since adopted) has indeed lunged and attempted to grab one of the cats twice. It's been three months since he's been here and we still work on training every time they're in a room together. "No cat!", treat and praise. "Look at me", praise and pets. He doesn't mess with them anymore and has learned that we are more interesting than the cats, however, he is NEVER left unsupervised without a muzzle and he needs to be crated when we leave the house, as I'm sure no muzzle will save the cat if someone isn't around to intervene. He isn't safe with cats outdoors and I wouldn't trust him with an unfamiliar cat even in our house.

There are lots of tips I've read in other threads that helped me figure out the best way to train. Perhaps a search will turn something up?

 

Most importantly though, be brutally honest with yourself about whether you are willing to potentially spend most of your free time when you are home supervising. It really can wear on you after a bit if it's constant.

Edited January 24, 2014 by brianamac

[greysmom]

The cat's reaction in most of the interactions is just as important as the dog's reaction. All of my cats are indoor only cats, and were raised frum tiny kittens around large dogs. They are completely unafraid of dogs, in any situation. They don't run from the dogs, and have no problem smacking a dog across the nose if it's being a little too forward. They were all adult cats when we begain adopting greyhounds.

 

That all being said, we have had to practice separation and supervision several times with "cat workable" dogs that have come to our house. A muzzle by itself will NOT protect a small animal from being killed by a dog if the dog is motivated to do so. You need to be willing to devote a room or area in your house to the cat for as long as it takes, if the dog needs more intensive training. The cat needs hiding places and at least two exits from every room. You can find a ton more threads about dogs and cats by doing a search here.

 

This dog "may" be workable. Or she may not. It doesn't sound like the individuals involved have much experience with cat testing. So you likely won't know for sure until you bring this dog home. If you have experience in helping dogs and cats learn to live together peacefully; and have very dog savvy, indoor only cats who are generally calm and not given to excitablility; and have a good adoption group nearby who would be willing to sponsor the dog in case the worst happens; then I might be tempted to go ahead and try it.

Edited January 24, 2014 by greysmom

[Sambuca]

Sounds workable to me, but the people working with the dog also need to know what they're doing. Can you try fostering the dog to see how it does?

[Guest smudgebear]

Thanks everyone. Second cat test results are in. This time there was no forced interaction with the cat and the dog wanted nothing to do with her. Foster mom said that anytime the cat came anywhere near the dog she would turn her head away. The cat even jumped up on a shelf right above the dog's head and the dog refused to even look in her direction. Hearing this I am feeling more comfortable about her potential to live with cats. I know there aren't any guarantees about how she will act with our specific cats, but it sounds like her first instinct is to avoid rather than go into predator mode. I am talking with the group about the possibility of fostering her with the intent to adopt.

[3greytjoys]

If a willing Greyhound specific adoption group is near the dog's current southern location, their experienced cat testers might be willing to test this dog before transport to CT. If so, a kind gesture would be to offer that Greyhound group a nice donation for your favor.

 

Clearly, the dog's second reaction sounds more promising as potentially cat workable, but it would be most helpful to be tested by Greyhound experts. A very high prey Greyhound likely would not have given up her captured prey (without harm) and so easily, nor would she look away for any length of time.

 

I second greysmom re: pre-arranging a Greyhound group in your area to accept her if she's not cat safe (in advance of her transport). Good luck.

[Guest smudgebear]

She is already sponsored by a local group, so no worries there, although it isn't a greyhound specific group. They partner with another rescue organization in the south where this pup is being fostered currently to try and get the dogs into homes up north since the adoption rates are better up here. Seems they are willing to work with us to place her somewhere locally if it doesn't work out with our cats, but neither they nor us wanted to risk it if there wasn't a reasonably good chance she could adjust to living with cats. I would never even consider doing this if we didn't have some kind of safety net. We fully expect that we will have to be vigilant and there will need to be some training. That would be the case with any dog. Even our previous greyhound was never left unsupervised with the cats, despite his complete lack of interest in them, until he had fully acclimated to the household and proved himself to be able to safely co-exist with them. We are also in a particularly good position because both DH and I work out of our home so we can put in the time to work with the dog and she would never be left alone for long periods of time. I'm going to discuss this a bit more with the adoption group before we make a final decision, but everyone's feedback here has been really helpful!

[Guest cmchan]

Guess I'm a bit late to this, but I would say she's definitely workable. You sound like you're willing to put in the time and effort to train her, and she clearly is not a high-prey hound. Mine is, and yet we managed to get her used to the cats. (She still finds them annoying and they adore her.) When she was first introduced to them, however, she was totally focused and did this quivering thing, like she was straining at an invisible leash, waiting to be let go to chase them.

[Fruitycake]

I wonder if the approach that the cat tester was using confused the dog. At first she was uninterested, but they kept pushing her toward a cat...wouldn't that potentially make a dog think that they want her to get the cat? I can see wanting to know how she'd interact, but I'd also think that making the cat move while the dog is on leash and can't actually grab might be a better approach (if the cat plays with a cat dancer or laser-pointer or something but is out of reach, does the dog react to that kind of more normal behavior?).

 

As her inclinations seem to show, she is cat workable right now. At least with that cat in that kind of situation. If you've worked with introductions of that type before you know that rewarding her initial "I see no cat" [turning her head away] is best for all involved.

 

When we first brought Monty in, he was intrigued by the small, oddly shaped thing but that was it - and still we had babygates nearly everywhere, used his kennel every time we were gone, and didn't allow roaming at night for the first 8 months. He's now truly cat trained (been slapped a few times by our girl kitty, Fruity, who likes to show everyone who is boss - though she isn't mean, just possessive of her people). This is really great, because this same cat does zoomies through the house (at 16 years old, no less) and Monty doesn't even lift his head anymore. It does, however, make our other dog very nervous when Fruity goes flying through the room - she comes to us with her forehead all puckered and rolls her eyes toward where the cat went. It's kinda funny.

[GeorgeofNE]

I hate to be the one to say this, but falling in love with a dog on the internet when there are plenty of dogs in your area that need homes...

 

Including Greyhounds. You're in CT. There are a number of Greyhound adoption groups in New England where you could go an meet dogs and not just pick one because, it sounds like from your initial post, you feel sorry for it.

 

What happens if the dog is shipped up north and it doesn't work out? What will you do?

 

Adopt a local dog and you'll be able to take it back if it isn't cat safe. Testing is only a guideline even when done properly.