The Clarice Chronicles

[krissn333]

Many of you chimed in with advice and encouragement in my previous thread, and for that I can't thank you enough. After the incident almost a week ago involving a toy and Clarice getting Ozzie in the ear with a toenail (not a tooth, we later realized), you all helped me understand that I needed to be even more elementary in working with Clarice on her fear issue with Ozzie, and we need to reserve toys for separate play time (at least for the time being and on into the future).

 

She is intimidated by him and it just puzzles the crap out of me. He is a big boy, but not huge (73 lbs) and SO GENTLE. And he's such a gentleman with her. He's always been polite, stays out of her immediate space (with the exception being when he first met her at the kennel and the day she came home when he did the usual sniffing), and has backed away even further every time she has growled at him. She is TOTALLY FINE with my iggies. She was not impressed with them sniffing her but now that they don't need to do that anymore, she likes them just fine, and the funniest little relationship between Clarice and Sage has sprouted...she bows at him, he bows back at her...it's very cute.

 

She was scared of our adoption coordinator's two female greyhounds too, and growled at them quite a bit. Both are smaller girls, basically the same size as Clarice. One of them, Naomi, is just 6 months older than Clarice.

 

I have not taken her to meet my parents' dogs because after our little "setback" last week, I am currently just concentrating on getting her "good" with the household. Then she can meet Mom's girl Goody, who is very calm and non-threatening. If this means she cannot go to Mom & Dad's for Christmas, so be it. There will be plenty more Christmases that she will get to go to if we can work through her issues once we have worked through her issues.

 

After I'm done with work tomorrow at 4:30, I am off work until January 2nd, so, this should provide lots of good time for training.

 

I have been walking her every day that I can...the temps yesterday and today were around 40 when I got home, so, both she and Ozzie got a walk (separately). I have found that her leash manners are much better with a martingale than with the WWW harness that our adoption coordinator recommended I get for her. So I may move toward walking them together (muzzled) if the weather cooperates (we're in for an ice storm tonight and then up to 8" of snow over the weekend, so, I'm a little worried about that).

 

One thing I have been doing is giving them treats in close proximity to one another. We started with having Clarice in her kennel and Ozzie just standing there with me and I give treats to both of them.

 

Today I stood in the kitchen with Clarice with Ozzie in the living room on the other side of a baby gate and fed them hot dogs. Clarice got a little too close to him for my comfort because she wanted those hot dogs SO BADLY - they touched noses a couple of times, but, there was no ill will anywhere. I also did some "sit" training with her since she sits so naturally - all I have to do is capture it and she is catching on. Then I'd just stand there with hot dogs at the ready and she'd stand there wagging her tail...when I'd see her tail stop wagging and see her gaze shift to Ozzie, if I gave Ozzie a hot dog, she'd wag her tail again and then I'd give her a hot dog.

 

I guess I'm a little confused about how I should be TIMING the giving of the hot dogs - is what I'm doing correct? Should I treat her the second she stops wagging her tail and she trains her stare on him?

 

We'll do some more "go to place" training while I'm home too and I'm hoping maybe she can be out of her kennel a little bit more if I can get her to go to a dog bed and chill there. Per several suggestions I am not going to be letting her on the couch. Oh, BTW on that - should I put stuff ON the couch so she can't get up there, or should I leave it open but just keep making her get off of the couch and go to her place?

 

I looked into some beginner obedience and I think there is a good place we could go, and it's not too pricy and not too far away. I don't think we're quite ready for that JUST YET since there are many things we can be doing around here.

 

Additional suggestions on things to do with her are welcome - I'd like for her and Ozzie to be cool with one another at some point.

[cleptogrey]

sounds like you are doing a good job accessing the dogs and what they need. i think your gut will lead you in the right direction. personally i would stick to one place for clarice right now- her kennel and you can send her to it w/ the door open and watch and reward for her good behavior staying in it. it's not punishment, it's her personal space. she is still new to the enitre game of learning what right and necessary. as to the two greys developing a relationship they will in due time.

 

once classes start everything will start to fall into place. but keep up your consistancy,it's your best friend. slow and steady and reward everyone when they have earned it.

good work- keep it up

[Guest Giselle]

Today I stood in the kitchen with Clarice with Ozzie in the living room on the other side of a baby gate and fed them hot dogs. Clarice got a little too close to him for my comfort because she wanted those hot dogs SO BADLY - they touched noses a couple of times, but, there was no ill will anywhere. I also did some "sit" training with her since she sits so naturally - all I have to do is capture it and she is catching on. Then I'd just stand there with hot dogs at the ready and she'd stand there wagging her tail...when I'd see her tail stop wagging and see her gaze shift to Ozzie, if I gave Ozzie a hot dog, she'd wag her tail again and then I'd give her a hot dog.

 

I guess I'm a little confused about how I should be TIMING the giving of the hot dogs - is what I'm doing correct? Should I treat her the second she stops wagging her tail and she trains her stare on him?

From my personal experience, I would prefer to avoid staring and avoid letting the dog stop tail wagging. When they switch on/off like that, usually, the cessation of the tail wag is tied in with increasing stress and arousal. Usually, in these situations, it's an indicator that the dog is unsure and probably uncomfortable. To me, these are warning signs that I want to avoid.

 

The progression for using food to increase an animal's comfort with a trigger is typically: 1) Classical counter conditioning 2) Operant counter conditioning.

1) In other words, in the beginning, feed treats constantly as long as the trigger is there. We're not asking the dog to perform anything yet. We just want the dog to associate "Ozzie = food!". It's best to make these sessions very clear. For example, with Clarice sitting or laying down, walk Ozzie next to her (or vice versa). As soon as they get within 1 foot of each other, feed a steady stream of treats. As soon as they move away from each other, stop feeding. When Ozzie is within 1 foot, the treat bar opens up! When Ozzie moves away, the treat bar shuts down. This pairs Ozzie's presence with food, and this technique will make it very clear and easy for Clarice to understand that his pres.

2) Later on, once Clarice has associated Ozzie with really great things, you can start asking her to give you behaviors. For example, it could be as basic as sitting nicely next to Ozzie and giving you solid eye contact. At first, reward for 5 seconds of sitting nicely. Then, slowly increase the time intervals until she can sit nicely for up to a minute and give you eye contact, all while next to Ozzie. Or you could even ask her to interact with Ozzie, like nose-targeting his side (as long as Ozzie is OK with this! If he might get snarky, don't do this). Or you could ask her to purposely glance at Ozzie but always as a behavior that you ask for specifically. Stares and glances that you don't ask for do not get rewarded. The key is to control the interactions and to make them productive and fun. Hope that helps!

[krissn333]

That helps a lot - thanks!

 

Ozzie wants so badly to be her friend - he just wants to be by her, which helps I suppose. I do not think he would mind being nosed either. He's a quiet and calm boy unless he is excited about playing.

 

The other issue we have is that if there are treats, Ozzie is RIGHT THERE. Which I suppose is not a real issue for my training purposes, but, he wants the treats too.

 

Any tips for feeding lots and lots of treats while she's wearing a muzzle?

[Batmom]

Treats with a muzzle: Get something like string cheese or fake bacon strips (Beggin' Strips) that you can cut into longish skinny pieces.

[greysmom]

Make Ozzie's treats really tiny. Big enough so that he get's something but still small enough you don't feel bad giving him lots of extra food.

[krissn333]

What is weird to me about her issues with him is that she's fine for a moment or two and then it's like all of a sudden a switch flips and she gets a weird look on her face.

 

It's like her default setting is happy silly puppy and then suddenly there's something that makes her put up that wall with him and all of a sudden it's not okay that they're near each other (and he's not doing ANYTHING! He's not even looking at her or paying attention to her).

[cleptogrey]

As to muzzle and treats they learn, i sometimes grab the muzzle and adjust it so it is easier to give it to them. The split second delay doesn't matter. Something is weird, classes will help with clarice's insecurity.

[Guest Giselle]

He may not be doing anything, but just being next to him around high value resources can make her uncomfortable. Don't forget that the length of time they spend together is also a trigger. For many reactive dogs, a 5-second-greeting may not produce weird reactions, but you can bet that a 30-second-prolonged greeting probably will.

[krissn333]

And that's EXACTLY what is happening. Of there are no treats or toys around, she notices more quickly that he's nearby.

 

Could it be possible she views ME as a resource too? She LOVES people. I've known HUNDREDS of greyhounds over the past 11 years and I can honestly say that I have only known ONE greyhound that loves people more than Clarice does, but she comes in a VERY close second.

 

I've done some sessions too where I sit in my chair and have them both standing there with me and I give them both petting at the same time (this was before the "incident"). They've also stood directly next to each other, shoulders touching, while I stood to one side of them and hugged them both as a unit. She was perfectly comfortable as far as I could see, because I was hugging her.

 

This is all new territory for me. If she were afraid of people it would almost be easier But I guess fate had other ideas. We'll get there eventually and in the meantime we are cautious, and I dont think being a little more cautious than perhaps I need to be is a bad thing.

[krissn333]

Wow,I can't believe how valuable that ONE session of "go to your place" was. I decided to have her be out with us for a little bit before I have to leave for a swim meet. I put a dog bed on the floor and just told her, "go to your place" and she walked right over and plopped down on the bed. Good girl!

[Batmom]

 

Early days. She'll get used to Ozzie, and they'll do fine.

[krissn333]

I think she is starting to understand he's not scary. I let them out in the yard together for the first time since our incident and SHE followed HIM all over the yard.