Need Advice For My Mom

[Guest kkaiser104]

My parent's have been having an awful time with Snowy lately. A little background--Snowy was an 8yo bounce and my parents adopted her last August. She was in a bad situation in her past home, and was not treated well. She's very hard to discipline because of this--any attempt at discipline turns into Snowy being upset (visibly) and then she'll run off to potty in the house (I don't personally believe dogs can feel revenge, but she really does potty in the house after each attempt at discipline!).

 

Here's the latest situation:

Last night Snowy came up to my parents and was barking right in their faces. They let her outside (she went potty), gave her her dinner, gave her water, played, and made sure all needs were met. She went and laid down, then came back out a few minutes later and wouldn't stop. My mom put her in her bed and made her lay down, and after a bit Snowy sulked off to the family room and peed and pooped on the carpet. Then she went and laid in my mom's bed. Mom didn't notice the potty mess and went to lay down in bed and Snowy growled/barred her teeth. She made her get down, but was afraid that Snowy would bite at her (though she's never done it before). My parents are older and both have been very ill recently and my mom is so upset about this. She just doesn't know what to do.

 

I'll be home on Saturday for a week so I'll be able to help them out. Advice?

 

And I know the rules, here's a picture of the offender...

 

snowy by Katelyn Kaiser, on Flickr

[Batmom]

She may have been barking because she had to go out.

[Guest kkaiser104]

She had just gone out 10 minutes previously and went potty (after the first barking incident). Anytime you try to tell Snowy no or try to redirect her attention to something positive, she pees in the house. We don't know how potty trained she was in her past house, so maybe it's time to revisit potty training 101 with her? Or maybe she's not emptying all the way when she goes out?

Edited February 26, 2013 by kkaiser104

[Batmom]

Could be not emptying. Many dogs will potty if nervous or upset as well. I would take her out a LOT -- or at least, more than she's been taken out. Before AND after dinner, before AND after play session, etc.

[Guest FinnsMom]

I had a dog like this in the past and my vet said it was nerves why she pee'd while being scolded. LOL It was interesting to say the least.

 

Next time she barks like that let her outside.

 

It's not uncommon for people, as they get older, to have to pee quite often, so it just makes sense that it could happen with dogs as well.

[Guest kkaiser104]

What if she doesn't stop barking after being let outside? She's a digger, so it's hard to leave her out for long periods. Leash walking isn't always possible for my parents as they've been ill.

[OwnedBySummer]

Summer barks at me inside either when she needs to potty rather desperately OR when she's bored/under-exercised. Since Snowy had just been out to potty, is it possible that your parents are not providing enough exercise?

[Brandiandwe]

Both our greys bark at us. For Paige, it's when she wants to head out for a walk and I'm still in bed, or when she wants to play. For Brandi, it's to go out.

 

My guess, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, is that it's a combination of nerves from being scolded (Brandi did the same thing) and not getting enough exercise and so not emptying out. I don't think a dog gets sufficient physical or mental exercise from just being left outside to their own devices.

[JJNg]

I agree with all the previous responses about her needing to potty when she barks, possibly needing to go more often due to age or stress, and needing more exercise and stimulation. If she is 'visibly upset' when disciplined, a good part of the issue is probably stress and anxiety. But since it sounds like she's peeing in the house regularly, she probably also needs a refresher course in housetraining and to be let out more often.

When you said that your mom "put her in her bed and made her lay down", did she do this physically? If so, I wouldn't recommend forceful physical discipline like this, and it may also be what caused Snowy to growl and bare her teeth when your mom approached her later.

If your parents aren't able to walk her, they can provide mental stimulation at home in the form of interactive puzzle toys, games, clicker training, etc.

 

Anytime you try to tell Snowy no or try to redirect her attention to something positive, she pees in the house.

 

Can you give some examples what you mean by trying to redirect her attention to something positive? And what kinds of things are your parents needing to discipline her for?

If you're 100% sure that she's empty, has had everything she needs, and is just barking for attention, I'd recommed just ignoring the barking, or getting up and walking away from her when she does that. She'll probably get worse before she gets better since she's used to getting attention (being reinforced) for barking, but if they can be consistent and not give in, she'll stop barking when that doesn't get her any response.

[LuvAPuppy]

Some dogs don't react well to change either, causing stress. Their illnesses, is this new since she's joined the household? She could be reacting to their physical and/or emotional stress as well. Or she could just be exercising dominance because she can or because she feels she has to if she thinks they're unable to lead the pack. In a dog who does not want to be pack leader, this causes them stress as well. If Snowy is healthy, I'd get a DAP diffuser, some Rescue Remedy and perhaps a Thundershirt and see of any or all make a difference.

[Guest kkaiser104]

I agree with all the previous responses about her needing to potty when she barks, possibly needing to go more often due to age or stress, and needing more exercise and stimulation. If she is 'visibly upset' when disciplined, a good part of the issue is probably stress and anxiety. But since it sounds like she's peeing in the house regularly, she probably also needs a refresher course in housetraining and to be let out more often.

 

When you said that your mom "put her in her bed and made her lay down", did she do this physically? If so, I wouldn't recommend forceful physical discipline like this, and it may also be what caused Snowy to growl and bare her teeth when your mom approached her later.

 

If your parents aren't able to walk her, they can provide mental stimulation at home in the form of interactive puzzle toys, games, clicker training, etc.

 

 

Can you give some examples what you mean by trying to redirect her attention to something positive? And what kinds of things are your parents needing to discipline her for?

 

If you're 100% sure that she's empty, has had everything she needs, and is just barking for attention, I'd recommed just ignoring the barking, or getting up and walking away from her when she does that. She'll probably get worse before she gets better since she's used to getting attention (being reinforced) for barking, but if they can be consistent and not give in, she'll stop barking when that doesn't get her any response.

 

No physical stuff, just telling her to go lay down, and then once she got there, to stay in bed. I think I'll make a trip to the local pet store here and look into some puzzle toys. She's not food motivated at all but loves stuffies.

 

Snowy is just a very...untrained dog. Common things she does include: digging (nesting) in the bed (they've gotten her other blankets, several dog beds, and she normally is great, but will still dig if she's upset), the barking thing, stealing food from humans, begging for food...etc.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I know Snowy is an 8 yr old, but it's really not too old to start some training exercises with her. Mirage didn't know a "down" or "sit" until he was 8 yrs old, so maybe teaching a few basic commands could help. We make the pups both "Go lay down" whenever we're eating - I don't care where it is, as long as it's not where we're eating. They both usually grab a bed where they can see us until we're done. That takes care of the begging or stealing food,

[Guest kkaiser104]

I know Snowy is an 8 yr old, but it's really not too old to start some training exercises with her. Mirage didn't know a "down" or "sit" until he was 8 yrs old, so maybe teaching a few basic commands could help. We make the pups both "Go lay down" whenever we're eating - I don't care where it is, as long as it's not where we're eating. They both usually grab a bed where they can see us until we're done. That takes care of the begging or stealing food,

 

She asked me tonight if she should do basic obedience classes with her. I told her it couldn't hurt any, but I'm not sure because I've done all of Teddi's training myself. Any tips for training when she doesn't care about food?

[Sambuca]

Obedience would probably be great for her. Go with clicker training. It can help with confidence plus when shes being a brat, you can start a training session to distract her. Bu sometimes barks at me for reasons only known to him. Since hes used to the clicker, I taught him to bark on command when I ask if hes a brat.

[OwnedBySummer]

Summer isn't food motivated, either. I did agility with her for a while and her reward at first was being able to headplant into my knees and get some lovings. Within a few sessions, I was able to switch between that and dehydrated liver. Real dehydrated liver, not some liver-flavored wheat/sugar treat. She will now work for liver, at whatever and wherever. She's just as happy to be rewarded with lovings but sometimes food is just easier. I'm sure you mom can find something that Snowy will work for. The obedience class sounds like a good idea, as your mom doesn't seem to be doing much training on her own. Also, with all my dogs, I've always subscribed to NILF (nothing in life is free) and they always have to do something for treats.

[greysmom]

The pottying in the house doesn't have to be only about one thing. It sounds like it might be several triggers for Snowy - submissive urination, extra anxiety, poor potty training skills, and lack of exercise.

 

I'm assuming they have taken her to the vet recently and she's not suffering from a UTI?? I might also talk to her vet about doing blood tests and maybe thyroid testing to make sure there's nothing physically wrong.

 

In the meantime, Snowy needs to go back to the beginning. Treat her as if she was a new dog, right from the track. She needs to be potty trained and needs some basic manners, and she needs to be socialized. Find a super yummy treat she will work for - hot dogs, stinky cheese, dehydrated liver - and teach her some easy things. You can even use a squeaky toy as a reward if that's what works for her. Clicker training might also work well for your parents, as it's mostly about shaping natural behaviors. If you're there and can "load" the clicker response for them it will go faster.

 

Teaching Snowy the "watch me" command will help. Looking into another beings eyes is a very confident behavior and most anxious dogs won't do it on their own. Once they learn that they actually can even get rewarded for it, they begin to build confidence and decrease anxiety. She can probably also learn to "catch" a toy or treat quickly. Other useful commands will be recall, a get-on-your-bed cue, and a get-OFF-the-bed cue. Your parents should not be trying to grab Snowy's collar to move her, so teaching a command is key. If necessary, they should use a leash to get her off the bed.

 

If they are having trouble getting Snowy enough exercise, perhaps they can hire a dog walker once a day to really tire her out. A tired dog is a happy dog (mostly because they're asleep!). Dog parks are controversial, but they can also be useful if you can find one where your dog can be safe. Or find out of there are greyhound-only playdates anywhere in their area.

 

I have never heard or read of any training that will break a dog from nesting. I tried for six years with one of my dogs and never managed to get him to stop. The most he would do is flop down for the moment giving me some impressive stink eye when I yelled at him long enough! Contrary to what one would think, my most successful strategy was to NOT give him anything to nest in - he never had any blankets or fluffy bedding of any type.

 

You also might discuss crating with your parents. Some anxious dogs like being denned in a crate and some get more anxious. Snowy's success will depend some on her previous experience with a crate.

 

A good positive-reinforcement obedience class *might* work, though I imagine Snowy's anxiousness will negate any benefits.

 

Good luck.

Edited February 26, 2013 by greysmom

[Sambuca]

I was thinking about this. You said she wasn't treated well in her last home. I'm wondering if shes connecting discipline to physical corrections. In guessing your parents use the word "no" when correcting her. Have them switch to a completely different word such as "stop" or "cease". Maybe shes connecting "no" with the physical and running, hiding and peeing due to the anxiety. I'm sure some of the peeing is anxiety, but just switching that word COULD help. It can't hurt to try.

[silverfish]

Sorry to hear about the troubles Snowy and your parents are having. It sounds as if poor Snowy is suffering from a huge amount of anxiety from what you have written. You are correct; dogs do not do revenge, this is something else. Most probably anxiety combined with simply not knowing what she is supposed to do. This adds confusion into the mix and can result in growling through fear.

 

I don't think a dog gets sufficient physical or mental exercise from just being left outside to their own devices

 

I agree.

 

Snowy is just a very...untrained dog. Common things she does include: digging (nesting) in the bed (they've gotten her other blankets, several dog beds, and she normally is great, but will still dig if she's upset), the barking thing, stealing food from humans, begging for food...etc.

 

Digging is not bad behaviour. Everyone needs to understand that. Digging is an instinctive, natural dog behaviour and can't really be trained out them. You've hit the nail on the head when you say she digs when she's upset - these instinctive behaviours (like licking and chewing and barking) can all be self-calming. Things they do when the world gets too confusing or too difficult and they need to try to comfort themselves. Stealing/begging are also in the basic dog behaviour repertoire, the difference is that you can train a dog not to do them. Leaving food within her reach knowing she might steal is setting her up for failure, so NOT leaving food within her reach is a good start.

 

It's actually quite easy to teach a dog not to beg. It's simply a matter of never, ever feeding them from the table or your plate. Have a special place where they get treats (ours are kept in the utility room, so the utility room doorway is the 'treat place' in our house) and don't give them anywhere else. Any table scraps you want to give them should go in their bowls. Might take a while, but they will give up on it if you're consistent.

 

She asked me tonight if she should do basic obedience classes with her. I told her it couldn't hurt any, but I'm not sure because I've done all of Teddi's training myself. Any tips for training when she doesn't care about food?

 

For Snowy, the best reward would probably be approval. ALL dogs seek approval on some level, and the more anxious and stressed they are, the more they need it. If I were your parents, I would start by simply watching her for a day or two. Ask them to step back a bit and watch her behaviour to see exactly what is going on and what she is doing and might be feeling. Whenever they see her doing something good, or even acceptable (lying quietly on her bed, asking to go out to pee in the garden, being in the kitchen without attempting to steal, etc), tell her she is a good girl. They can also find occasions to pet her, but they may have to be careful on this one. I don't know what they are like with her, but it is possible to smother an anxious greyhound with too much affection. See if you can discover whether this might be the case.

 

Quick run down on dog signals: if when they go to pet her she turns her head away, licks her nose, looks away showing the white part of her eyes, flicks her eyes from side to side, or stiffens her body, or pants, they may be giving too much physical affection - more than she can handle. This in itself can be enough to trigger anxiety-based displacement activities like urination in the house. IF this is the case, they may need to back off a bit, which would mean, for instance, just give her a quick touch on the shoulder and say 'Good girl!' when they want to praise her, instead of a face-to-face hug, or a long, involved 'pets and love' session.

 

Personally, I'd keep things on this level for a few days and see how she responds. During this time they can also begin sending her out to pee/poop after each meal and at frequent points during the day, so long as they never force her, and so long as they praise her when she does it right, and clean up without comment (or angry looks/body language) when she fails. You no doubt already know that telling a dog off after s/he has peed or pooped in the house is worse than useless, but maybe they don't? If she won't voluntarily go out after her meals, maybe they could pop a leash on her and walk her into the garden?

 

And yes, I agree that if they can't walk her, they probably need to find someone who can. Exercise is another great stress-reliever for dogs and can work wonders for their mental wellbeing.

 

They can try Adaptil, too. The plug-in diffuser has worked wonders here.

[Batmom]

Hoping they're not scolding for digging? Especially at the bed, and under the circumstances in the yard, too. If they're "No'ing" or otherwise scolding for that, it may be contributing to potty problems and would certainly be contributing to nervousness/upset. As silverfish notes, digging is an ordinary dog behavior.

 

Stealing food: Again, ditto what silverfish said. If it's there, any reasonable dog will try to get something tasty. The more they've succeeded, the more they'll try. Put food, dirty dishes, etc. away.

 

Begging: Ignore it. Totally. It takes some dogs a long time to stop but they do eventually stop. In an extreme case, it can help to give the dog a chewy or a stuffed, frozen Kong (try lowfat yogurt and banana so as not to make a fat dog ) while the people have a meal. Give that Kong BEFORE the people sit down to eat and the dog starts begging.

[Guest june]

Lots of good ideas mentioned above.

 

You mentioned looking for interactive toys. One that my girl loves are the Egg Babies. These are stuffed animals with a pouch that holds several "eggs" with squeekers inside. There is an elastic opening that the dog can push their snout into and pull out the eggs. My girl will do this over and over bringing me the toy to refill for her (I have to pick up the eggs ). My girl's favorite seems to be the turtle as it lays nicely on it's back so she can get the eggs out.

 

Good luck with Snowy

 

Edited to add; sometimes you have to show the dog how to get started with this by pulling one of the eggs part way out so they can get hold of it. I've also put dried stinky treats inside to get their attention. These are easily washed in the washing machine and air dried.

Edited February 26, 2013 by june

[greysmom]

Additionally to what silverfish was saying:

 

With my spook, I had to treat her as I would have treated an autistic person for many things. Especially in the beginning. She did not want to be touched or have much physical contact at all. I used verbal praise, or tossed her a yummy treat without comment when she was doing something good. *Very* occasionally, I would sit on the floor with her and pet her - when she was calm and happy and tired - just for a few minutes. I would try and stop before she reached her contact limit and became uncomfortable. Gradually, this time limit became longer and longer. The first time she actually came up to me for pets on her own, I cried buckets!

 

Also, you may want to discuss some medication support for a little while. An anti-anxiety drug might give her the time and space to settle down, and accept some re-training and re-conditioning.

[a_daerr]

Awww, I'm sorry Snowy is having problems. I hope your mom won't be offended by this statement... but sometimes owners create problems in their dogs by inadvertently sending mixed messages or not being consistent enough with their training strategies. It sounds like this might be the case for Snowy. Dogs who are never rewarded for begging will stop. Dogs who are never rewarded for barking will learn that it's not an acceptable way to get attention. With consistent training and a regular schedule, these types of impulsive behaviors should decrease over time. The fact that they're getting worse leads me to believe that Snowy must be getting some type of gratification by acting out.

 

The good news is that we all make mistakes!! I posted a thread a few months ago that I was having some training issues with Truman. I was frustrated because he would always do the commands flawlessly for the trainer, but then fell apart for me. Someone gave me the advice to video-tape myself training him and make observations about what I was doing wrong. It was no wonder he wasn't getting it, because my method was all over the map. I was grateful for the opportunity to learn from a professional. I could've read 100 books and Greytalked until my fingers fell off, and it still wouldn't have been a substitute for real-life, hands-on training with an expert. This is a long way of saying, I think Snowy probably could benefit from a basic obedience class. Between my two dogs, we've done over a dozen different classes, and I've never heard any of my classmates ever say they regretted it. Mostly everyone sees improvement and enjoys it so much that they go on to do more challenging, advanced classes. At the minimum, it will give your parents a foundation for appropriate training methods and an opportunity for Snowy to channel her energy into something positive.

 

Either way, I hope Snowy starts to turn a corner. I really believe that behind every dammit dog is a good dog waiting to come out!

[RedHead]

I would try to teach him to use another signal when he needs to go out (using a bell, going to the door). I don't mind if my dogs whine or let me know when they need to go out, but I wouldn't give them their way if they barked loudly at me, rewarding that will only create more barking in the future. If he is sometimes getting what he wants for barking, he will likely continue to do it. It sounds like having more activity and structure is a good thing, so a basic obedience class sounds like a great idea, even just to give him some out of house activity and to build more trust. In the meantime I would go back to the bare basics. No going on beds or furniture if there is still growling and supervise all the time to avoid accidents. Any exercise activities would also probably help with the restlessness. Unless he is marking, the potty thing sounds more like anxiety. Sounds like your mom has her hands full!

[Guest grandmagrey]

Hi everyone I'm the mom of Snowy. Her behavior has escalated in the past couple if weeks. I think, stepping back, directly related to our flu and not feeling up to par. Snowy and all if our dogs go out about every 2 hrs when we are home. When we are at work during the day , we come home at lunch to let them out. We are home about 40-45 mins. That trashes the theory that Snowy needs to go outside. Snowy loves us and shows affection. Kisses, offering her head for a scratch, belly for a rub are all part if Snowys day routinely. She play bows, we play. She cuddles on the couch. She gets one if 5 different beds, all the blankets she wants to nest with. When she first came to live here, she nested too much and shredded a mattress. She knows treat time and waits her turn occasionally. (Still working on that) the barking is not new...i think attention seeking vs playfulness but the urinating in the house is new. I wonder about a bladder issue? Going to talk to the vet. Seems to happen during these extremely excitable moments. Anyone know any good herbal things for bladders? Ie alfalfa is good for humans... we dont know Snowys past , but I do know she was neglected if not worse. I just watched a video from last night. Trying to watch the body language. I think she loves and trusts us finally and wants to play. I also think she's not sure how and is over excited. Kind of like the only child who doesnt quite know how to fit in with the other kids on the playground. As for discipline, we rarely use the word no. Usually its stop" or "don't". Never never any physical punishment. My dogs will not fear my hand! Will post more later thank you everyone for the encouragement and advice. We love Snowy, Snowy bear, Snowy bird, and will figure this out.

[Guest grandmagrey]

OK back. No offense ever taken at someone's ideas and attempts to help us w a prob we have put out there. Deep soul searching has revealed I prob inadvertantly have sent some mixed messages. When the barking episodes first began, I attempted to comfort and gave love. Oops! Actually, I taught Snowy to expect love and hugs, belly rubs, head scratches, etc, when she barked! Lesson learned. More later in the continuing saga we shall call "life with Snowy(how I love that dog!)