Tips For A Faster, More Fluid Sit

[a_daerr]

Truman just started his CGC/TDI class yesterday. It's not greyhound-only, so there are a lot of other breeds, most of which sit naturally. Truman can sit, but it's still not quite natural for him. His method is to slowly back up several steps and sink into a sit. If he's had enough, he'll just fart around and only do it if I lure him down from the nose. When he does sit, he has a hard time staying up and starts sliding down after a few seconds. I usually just put him in a down, sphinx-style, which seems to be easier for him.

 

The class is pretty fast-paced, and it requires A LOT of sitting (i.e. move to the next station and sit your dog, heel-sit, sit-stay, sit politely for petting, etc). Although the instructor understands that greyhounds aren't the best sitters, I would like for him to be more on-point. Would clicker be appropriate in this situation?

Edited January 8, 2013 by a_daerr

[JAJ2010]

Anything that would make him more engaged would help I think. Maybe a yummier variety of treats? Clicker might help...

 

Sunshine is a natural sitter and even she is done after a few tries of something. She needs lots of different activities to keep her little darty squirrel brain interested. Otherwise she starts thinking about paint on the wall, dust bunnies, and plotting her world domination.

 

Rainy just was not put on this earth to do silly tricks. She will sit once maybe twice. Then give an exasperated sigh and pretend you are too stupid to listen to.

 

I don't think many greyhounds are good with repetitive tasks even if it isn't sitting. Can he just stand next to you in a heel? Or rotate in laying down?

[a_daerr]

I usually bring three different kinds of treats (chicken, hot dogs, cheese, liverwurst, and Milo's Kitchen). And a down is acceptable, but the class is really fast. Not a whole lot of time for putzing around, which is probably the real problem. He wants to take his sweet time doing everything.

[Guest kkaiser104]

Teddi will sit every time, with or without treats, and look happy doing it. Part of iit is that he really aims to please--it's just his personality. But, we started sitting with a "scoop sit" and would treat once his butt hit the floor. He didn't have to hold it until he sat comfortably and without "help" each time. Try having Truman sit against a wall--that will prevent him from stepping back and sinking into a sit. Do you have a hand signal for a sit? Teddi will sit anytime there is a treat nearby or if we give the signal (which, for us, is an outstretched palm with the palm facing up--like we're holding a treat above his head). I think Truman will get it--he's still pretty young, right? I remember Teddi's first sit without help...actually, it's on video (and yes, thats me. I know I sound stupid!):

 

 

And then my favorite picture of him sitting, and just in time for Valentine's day!

 

 

Good luck! Let me know if you have any questions. It'll be harder with a dog that doesn't naturally want to please you, but I imagine it'll be totally possible with lots of practice.

Edited January 9, 2013 by kkaiser104

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Dudley hates to sit the correct way, it almost seems like it hurts him because the base of his tail gets pushed awkwardly on the ground. He also slides in a normal sit, so he will refuse to sit on any hard surfaces. Instead, I let him go into a side saddle type sit, basically its like the step right before he goes to lay down. It seems to be more natural for him. I don't know if it would be acceptable for CGC testing though, as a trainer told me he could not do it in obedience trials. Good thing I am just teaching him to sit for the fun of it!

[Batmom]

1. In your practice sessions at home, put some sits in a very brisk heeling routine -- heel, sit, heel, about turn, sit, heel, sit, heel -- FAST, with lots of "Good boy!" (or clicker) and bits of liverwurst.

 

2. Keep an eye on his demeanor in class. If he's getting close to having had enough of something, DON'T DO IT ANYMORE. Ask for something else (stand-stay, down, shake hands, whatever) instead.

[krissy]

No real advice, just curious since you got Truman at such a young age I would have expected he'd have a better sit. Kili has a (so far *knock on wood*) beautiful sit. Of course, Truman's also a huge, lanky greyhound whereas Kili is (again, so far) quite small. I do make it a habit though to really ask her to sit often to encourage her to do so, and she does sit a lot just on her own. Did Truman grow out of sitting or he just never really did even to begin with?

[JJNg]

Do you use sit in other contexts at home? Like before giving him treats, before feeding him, before opening the door for him to go outside, etc? If you're not already doing this, having him sit for everything might get give him more practice so that it becomes more natural. I find that some greyhounds just never seem very comfortable in a sit, even though they're happy to do it for treats.

[a_daerr]

My very first memory of Truman was the day I brought him home- the breeder had a glass storm door on her house, and when I pulled up he was sitting right at the door. It was so cute! I thought, wow this will be great for obedience. He already sits! And he used to sit all the time on his own. It seems like he phased it out more the bigger his body got. The trainer always tells us to "give him time, he's got a long way down!" In training, he will sit 99% of the time when prompted, it just takes him awhile. I started heeling him around our main floor last night, and his sits were a little bit faster. But he still got to the point that when he's had enough, he loses focus (no matter what treats I use).

[Batmom]

Try to stop well before he's had enough -- you want him fresh and jazzed to work on whatever it is you're doing.

 

It can help to mix up "traditional" obedience stuff with retrieves (if he does that), a quick squeaky toy session, teaching something like a spin .... Breaking training up into 2-3 short sessions per day rather than one long one usually works better.

 

I was going to say that the hounds seem to have a shorter attention span than working breeds. That isn't *exactly* true, but in my experience you can get away with more training boredom in a working breed. Hounds are quicker to get balky and "I'm not here anymore." You want to avoid that if at all possible.

[a_daerr]

I was going to say that the hounds seem to have a shorter attention span than working breeds. That isn't *exactly* true, but in my experience you can get away with more training boredom in a working breed. Hounds are quicker to get balky and "I'm not here anymore." You want to avoid that if at all possible.

 

That's sort of where we are. His attention span is quite short. He starts off real well, but then he gets less interested in the treats, and I lose him. Last night, I was trying to do some work with heel/sit, down, and leave it. After about 10 minutes, he could care less about the treats. He was just standing there, deliberately not looking at me. I would show him the treats (cheese), and he would go back to staring into outer space. This coming from the same dog who will spend 20 minutes tearing up a cardboard box. The only thing that holds his attention is getting into trouble!

[Batmom]

Try 3-5 minutes . And try adding something like chasing and shredding newspaper balls -- pretend you're training him to do it, same manner on your part, "command," reward. You want him to think that whenever you approach for training, he's going to have HIS brand of FUN!!!!!

 

It sounds like for him, the attention span and having fun are the main issues. I will say, tho, that my go-to training treat for hard times is thawed hot dog slivers. I had no idea there was something better than cheddar cheese or freeze-dried salmon (freeze-dried cheese is pretty good, too), but hot dog slivers have been IT for my dogs. I put them in a little sandwich bag in my pocket so I don't spend the rest of my life smelling like hot dogs.

[a_daerr]

Try 3-5 minutes . And try adding something like chasing and shredding newspaper balls -- pretend you're training him to do it, same manner on your part, "command," reward. You want him to think that whenever you approach for training, he's going to have HIS brand of FUN!!!!!

 

It sounds like for him, the attention span and having fun are the main issues. I will say, tho, that my go-to training treat for hard times is thawed hot dog slivers. I had no idea there was something better than cheddar cheese or freeze-dried salmon (freeze-dried cheese is pretty good, too), but hot dog slivers have been IT for my dogs. I put them in a little sandwich bag in my pocket so I don't spend the rest of my life smelling like hot dogs.

 

Yep, I'm probably going to cut down the time of the training sessions, but considering this is his 5th class, he really should be able to do some more advanced work by now. If I trained ANY other dog, I'd have a seeing-eye dog by now. Probably another drawback of adolescence... And yes, we also love hot dogs!! I used to just give them as is, then our last trainer suggested putting them in the microwave for a minute. This seems to bring out the smell and work even better (after you paper towel off the grease).

[Batmom]

I forget how old he is now? but youth could contribute. I find that in training, most dogs will have a moment when the light bulb goes off and they get the whole training thing and want to do it. That moment can be awhile in coming.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

It might just be that he needs the time, and might never speed up much. Jayne is generally fast as a whip with all her tricks.

 

With "bang" (play dead) though, it's as if someone poured molasses in her veins. She just takes an eternity to do it.

[a_daerr]

I forget how old he is now? but youth could contribute. I find that in training, most dogs will have a moment when the light bulb goes off and they get the whole training thing and want to do it. That moment can be awhile in coming.

 

He's a little over 16 months... but I have noticed that his adolescent behaviors have just started cropping up fairly recently. Anxiety during on-leash introductions with other dogs, resource guarding with his housemate, showing teeth and snapping more at the dog park. It's like he's trying to assert himself and test the waters. If you see him, he doesn't look like a normal greyhound yet. He's very tall and lanky, with all the bones in his spine and hips showing. Sort of like a gangly teenager. I think he's taking awhile to mature, physically and psychologically.

[NeylasMom]

Batmom and Jjng have already covered most of what I was going to say. The only thing I will add is that once you have him doing them more readily at home then you want to start selectively reinforcing for the better - in your case, this most likely means quicker - sits. You can still verbally praise for the other ones, but only click and treat for the faster or prettier ones. I would be very careful about adding this element in though as you don't want him to get discouraged so in your case I would think of this more as a fine tuning method.

 

One other thought and I may have missed this - is the floor where you train slippery? Violet would always slide so we had to use a rug or mat when we practiced our sit stays in class. For a basic sit it was okay, but if I had to ask her to hold that position, she needed the mat. You might have to consider adding this in, at least temporarily.

[Wonder]

I'm eager to see and try these suggestions. I'm working on sit with Thunder. He will only sit on a dog bed

His obedience class starts 1/19 so I want to get him doing sit better and not have to drag a dog bed to class

[a_daerr]

I'm eager to see and try these suggestions. I'm working on sit with Thunder. He will only sit on a dog bed

His obedience class starts 1/19 so I want to get him doing sit better and not have to drag a dog bed to class

 

Is it a basic obedience class? If so, we brought beds to all of ours! The instructors who were familiar with greys recommended them for use as a target.

[Guest june]

1. In your practice sessions at home, put some sits in a very brisk heeling routine -- heel, sit, heel, about turn, sit, heel, sit, heel -- FAST, with lots of "Good boy!" (or clicker) and bits of liverwurst.

 

2. Keep an eye on his demeanor in class. If he's getting close to having had enough of something, DON'T DO IT ANYMORE. Ask for something else (stand-stay, down, shake hands, whatever) instead.

This! When he gets tired of it stop. I had to do that with one of my girls and she was able to get her CGC, TDI and eventually got her CD. I actually worked with her on sometimes asking her to sit, sometimes down and sometimes wait which means stand at your side without moving. She she learned all three commands and will do them. Ask your instructor if something like that is acceptable. Our pups get bored easily and they hate being asked to do the same thing over and over. Oh, and greyhounds do not have to sit for the TDI test or at least they didn't used to have to. She got her several years ago.

Edited January 9, 2013 by june

[a_daerr]

This! When he gets tired of it stop. I had to do that with one of my girls and she was able to get her CGC, TDI and eventually got her CD. I actually worked with her on sometimes asking her to sit, sometimes down and sometimes wait which means stand at your side without moving. She she learned all three commands and will do them. Ask your instructor if something like that is acceptable. Our pups get bored easily and they hate being asked to do the same thing over and over. Oh, and greyhounds do not have to sit for the TDI test or at least they didn't used to have to. She got her several years ago.

 

When Henry tested for his CGC/TDI, he had to sit. But I think it varies based on the evaluator.

[Guest Giselle]

When in doubt, videotape yourself.

 

My VERY first Rally-O trial, Ivy and I barely passed. I was so frustrated. She was tuning me out, "being a brat", etc. I thought she was young, had poor attention span, or was being obstinate/adolescent. Then, I looked at pictures of myself taken during the trial, and I was horrified. My body language was terrible and it was all signaling to Ivy that I was stressed and frustrated.

 

So, now, whenever a dog starts tuning me out, I always videotape myself and watch for MY mistakes. After working with many other people and clients, I have to say that the problem is almost always handler-driven. It's a tough truth, but it's the truth that I've seen in my experience Good luck!

[Wonder]

Is it a basic obedience class? If so, we brought beds to all of ours! The instructors who were familiar with greys recommended them for use as a target.

Yes it's basic.

[a_daerr]

Yes it's basic.

 

You never know. Lots of people still bring towels or blankets for their greyhounds. I have a travel bed that I take to class.

[Wonder]

You never know. Lots of people still bring towels or blankets for their greyhounds. I have a travel bed that I take to class.

I will see how the first class goes. I have a blanket I use at at M&G's that is kept in the car. I can bring that in.

I wish this was a greyhound only class