Mucusy Stool

[NeylasMom]

If I told you that I had a hunch that we are still dealing with worms with Violet - either that she is getting reinfested or a 10 day course of Panacur didn't completely eradicate them - and that the most prominent symptom is very mucusy stool, what would you tell me to deworm with and on what schedule?

 

Based on my research, particularly regarding the mucus on her stool, I think that she may have whipworms. I'm not really inclined to do a fecal at this point because they seem to so rarely turn up positive and I'm reading that that's particularly true of whipworms because so few eggs are shed and only intermittently.

 

Right now I am leaning toward a 5-day course of Panacur now, another in 3 weeks and again in 3 months, but I've seen anywhere from 3-10 days recommended per course. Thoughts?

 

Other symptoms btw: the big one is she is a hard keeper, lots of anus licking (although my vet recently said her anal glands needed to be expressed, which we did - licking has lessened but not disappeared), and occasional chewing/knitting on her sides, down toward her hips, lots of trying to eat grass and poop (although I think only cat poop) on walks. No diarrhea whatsoever since her switch to raw, in fact her stool (other than the mucus) is exactly what I would expect based on her diet

 

ETA: We had a period where things were really good after I treated with Panacur. Then she started trying to eat cat poop on walks again. At the time I attributed it to changing her probiotic (we stepped down from the heavy duty one with GI support to just a pro & prebiotic), but the heavy mucus, which had resolved with the Panacur too returned more recently and I have not made any changes to her diet or probiotic. I've always had this nagging feeling about how hard of a keeper she is and the other symptoms but the return of the mucus is what's making me really suspicious.

Edited April 3, 2012 by NeylasMom

[BootsyCollins]

We finally got rid of bootsy's hooks with two doses of panacur @3 days each, 3 weeks apart.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Jen, I think we're in the same club. Sam's had mucus in his stools (about 1/3 soft poop, 2/3 mucus) on occasion, some all-round diarrhea, and this evening he added vomiting. Today the vet found Clostridium (I think he said Clostridium botulinum), and suspects a side-order of whip-worms. Sam has started metronidazole (for 6 days) and panacur (for 3 days). Vet said that if there's a re-occurrence anytime soon--or if Silver gets sick--he'll assume the worms, even without results in the fecal.

 

Sam has dropped about 4 pounds and was dehydrated today. Tonight he's better on the hydration, mostly because I buried his beloved kibble under water (with Panacur in it); if he wanted the kibble, he had to drink his way down to it.

 

Sam's also taking probiotics. (And a whole raft of meds that have nothing to do with this.) I've got Pepcid and Gas-X in reserve. This afternoon--before the vomiting--the stomach gurgles were loud enough to be heard from across the room.

 

Nothing has changed in Sam's diet. He's not hanging out with strange dogs (no M&Gs, parks, etc.). Sam's raided the trash can a little less often than usual. He hasn't been on any antibiotics since a round of doxycycline back in October. The latest outbreak occurred as we reached the end of a bag of dog food we'd been using for about three weeks. And Silver's poop--it used to bounce, but these days is a bit soft, though nothing like Sam's. Silver, though, is the butt-licker (her anal glands are fine) and chewer/nitter on her side and legs. She's had just about every antibiotic there is in the last six months (though not clindamycin), but she could be falling victim to stress since she was spayed just last week. (The chewing/nitting started up in the last three or four days.)

[tbhounds]

Whipworms should be treated with Panacur- for 3 days, repeat in 3 weeks and again in 3 months. It's very easy to have your hound reinfest themselves- once whips enter the soil they are just about impossible to rid of them.

[cleptogrey]

along w/ the wormings and possiblity a couple of rounds of that wonder drug...FLAGYL...which heartworm preventative is she on? my vet prescribes interceptor, the dogs seem to stay worm free (including his pack of 5).

 

http://www.interceptor.novartis.us/petowner/po-parasites.html

Edited April 3, 2012 by cleptogrey

[MaryJane]

When I tried my angel Jake on a raw diet the result was a "mucosy stool" - I got him off raw and gave him cooked and it solved all the problems.

 

While worms could cause mucous because of the inflammation that results, there are other things that can also cause the inflammation. Try a bland diet of cooked hamburger and rice for a few days and see if the stools get better.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Yes, Jen, I was just coming back to ask you which heartworm preventative Violet is on. Three heartworm preventatives can prevent whipworms, but two of them are Interceptor and Sentinel--manufactured by those nincompoops at Novartis and largely unavailable. Trifexis is the third choice.

 

Sam has been on Interceptor, though, and took his last one the first of March. First of April, he got Heartguard Plus (which doesn't prevent whipworms), but he was sick before that.

 

Poor boy: when he vomited last night, I think he aspirated some of the fluid. He had a bad night--lots of coughing. He's better this morning and sleeping comfortably now.

[NeylasMom]

Thanks all. I think I'll go with the 3 days of Panacur now, at 3 wks, and at 3 mos and hope that does it. I forgot to mention, we did also do a course of Flagyl after the last round of diarrhea back in November so we likely would have addressed something bacterial, although we do a lot of hiking with access to lakes and streams so a reinfestation of giardia isn't out of the question either.

 

When I tried my angel Jake on a raw diet the result was a "mucosy stool" - I got him off raw and gave him cooked and it solved all the problems.

 

While worms could cause mucous because of the inflammation that results, there are other things that can also cause the inflammation. Try a bland diet of cooked hamburger and rice for a few days and see if the stools get better.

I'm not taking her off of her raw diet. The mucus around her stool is independent of her diet and there's nothing wrong otherwise with her stool, not to mention that the switch to a raw diet addressed some other issues she was having.

 

Yes, Jen, I was just coming back to ask you which heartworm preventative Violet is on. Three heartworm preventatives can prevent whipworms, but two of them are Interceptor and Sentinel--manufactured by those nincompoops at Novartis and largely unavailable. Trifexis is the third choice.

 

Sam has been on Interceptor, though, and took his last one the first of March. First of April, he got Heartguard Plus (which doesn't prevent whipworms), but he was sick before that.

 

Poor boy: when he vomited last night, I think he aspirated some of the fluid. He had a bad night--lots of coughing. He's better this morning and sleeping comfortably now.

She's on Heartguard. I used to use Heartguard Plus, but I decided I would rather use less chemical and deworm if needed since neither Neyla nor Zuri has ever had worm issues. I may have to rethink that. Seriously though, I probably won't. I would consider switching to Interceptor, even for a while, but like you said it's not available and the HG Plus doesn't address whips.

 

I hope Sam feels better soon.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I don't want to change to Trifexis: it includes flea prevention, but it doesn't address ticks, which is something we need. I'd still need Frontline Plus, and I don't want extra flea stuff, especially internally. (I like that if someone is having a bad reaction to Frontline Plus, I can wash the stuff off. Try that with Trifexis.)

 

And since Sam has been sick like this twice while on Interceptor (and my vet has heard of other cases of whipworm while the dog was on Interceptor), I'm thinking there's no real incentive to change Sam to Trifexis. And the Clostridium is clearly there in Sam's poop so--whipworms or not--a diet change isn't the answer. (Just as well, since tampering with Sam's diet is an exercise fraught with uncertainty.)

[greyhead]

Drs. Foster & Smith appears to still have Interceptor today, and we got some from them three weeks ago, if that info is useful to you. Also wanted to mention that four-week dosing doesn't keep up with the three-week cycle of hookworms for Spencer, so his internist said to give it every three weeks. Not sure what the cycle of whipworms is.

 

Best wishes and scritches to Violet and to Sam.

[NeylasMom]

I don't want to change to Trifexis: it includes flea prevention, but it doesn't address ticks, which is something we need. I'd still need Frontline Plus, and I don't want extra flea stuff, especially internally. (I like that if someone is having a bad reaction to Frontline Plus, I can wash the stuff off. Try that with Trifexis.)

 

And since Sam has been sick like this twice while on Interceptor (and my vet has heard of other cases of whipworm while the dog was on Interceptor), I'm thinking there's no real incentive to change Sam to Trifexis. And the Clostridium is clearly there in Sam's poop so--whipworms or not--a diet change isn't the answer. (Just as well, since tampering with Sam's diet is an exercise fraught with uncertainty.)

Exactly my thinking.

 

I have heard that clostridium in stool can be fairly common and often doesn't cause symptoms - don't remember where I heard that or how reliable it is, but could mean that worms are the real culprit for Sam too.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Drs. Foster & Smith appears to still have Interceptor today, and we got some from them three weeks ago, if that info is useful to you. Also wanted to mention that four-week dosing doesn't keep up with the three-week cycle of hookworms for Spencer, so his internist said to give it every three weeks. Not sure what the cycle of whipworms is.

 

Best wishes and scritches to Violet and to Sam.

 

Apparently, the life-cycle on whipworms is close to three months (which is why they recommend deworming again at three weeks and three months--three weeks would catch hooks, three months would catch whips). But Sam got whatever-he's-got while on Interceptor (which my vet says is not unheard of), so I may not rush to get him more Interceptor, instead relying on Heartguard Plus for heartworm prevention, and dewormer for the rest.

 

One friend speculated that the ph in Sam's intestinal tract may not be acidic enough, so that the worms had an easier time getting established (despite the Interceptor). Sam's been on pepcid because of stomach troubles associated with various other meds he is (or has been) taking.

[cleptogrey]

i haven't had any trouble buying interceptor. i've been super happy using it on my dogs over the last 2 decades. prior to using it it was an uphill battle w/ worms, you name it, my dogs picked them up. those were the days when heartworm preventative needed to be administered daily! as to flagyl, often a couple of repeat doses are needed to really clean up their gut. i do remember using it on emily and then a tad more than a week later...loose stinky stools AGAIN! finally my vet gave me an extra round to use as needed. so, i wouldn't omit another round or two of flagyl if stool/worm testing come back normal.

 

your feeding raw, right??? isn't it the bone that binds them?? too many calculations for me, a friend feeds raw and is always adjusting the combo.

Edited April 5, 2012 by cleptogrey

[NeylasMom]

your feeding raw, right??? isn't it the bone that binds them?? too many calculations for me, a friend feeds raw and is always adjusting the combo.

Her stools aren't loose, they are the appropriate consistency for her diet. She hasn't had diarrhea since before the raw switch. It's the large amount of mucous and other symptoms (especially the difficulty keeping weight on her) that bugs me.

 

Thanks for the info about the flagyl. I suppose I should talk to my vet about all of this. We were just in to see her not long ago, but it was a crazy day so we didn't have much time and we've been on the phone a lot because of Cisco so I don't feel like bothering her. I do have another vet right down the street from me that will run fecals for me (my vet is about a half an hour away) so I may just drop one off before I start the Panacur. No harm, outside of the cost of course and it would of course be nice to know if/what we're dealing with.