Coenzyme Q10

[Guest grey_dreams]

Zuki has disease of the mitral valve, and now the left ventricle starts to enlarge. I read about Coenzyme Q10 and a couple of people also advised that it would be good to supplement. I've searched for a source for animals, but they are not available in this country. Then I searched for the highest quality human source that I could find. I was happy to locate this (in Dutch: http://www.solgar.nl/producten/anti-oxidanten/nutri-nanoTM-coq-10-31x/). That is, I was happy until I got home and double-checked their website. I found that they add paprika instead of an artificial food coloring, but paprika is considered as a toxin for animals. I've tried to find more information about harmful paprika dosages, but was unable to find much information.

 

I assume most of the paprika is in the outer softgel capsule, which has a red color. I cut one end open, thinking I would just squirt the contents on his food, but the contents are colored a kind of mustard brown color, so I don't know if that's the normal color for CoQ10 or if there might be paprika in there too.

 

Does anyone have any ideas about whether the amount of paprika used as a colorant would be harmful? Thanks in advance.

[4My2Greys]

You might find this study on paprika toxicity helpful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12909267/?i=37&from=Paprika%20toxicity

 

Edited to fix link

Edited February 1, 2012 by 4My2Greys

[Guest grey_dreams]

You might find this study on paprika toxicity helpful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12909267/?i=37&from=Paprika%20toxicity

 

Edited to fix link

 

Thank you very much! It seems that at least in rats there are no adverse effects from paprika used as a colorant.

Edited February 1, 2012 by grey_dreams

[kudzu]

... the contents are colored a kind of mustard brown color, so I don't know if that's the normal color for CoQ10 ...

It is.

[Guest grey_dreams]

... the contents are colored a kind of mustard brown color, so I don't know if that's the normal color for CoQ10 ...

It is.

 

Thank you for the information. Maybe I'll just go ahead and open up the softgel caps and just squirt the contents on his food.

[4My2Greys]

You might find this study on paprika toxicity helpful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12909267/?i=37&from=Paprika%20toxicity

 

Edited to fix link

 

Thank you very much! It seems that at least in rats there are no adverse effects from paprika used as a colorant.

 

I have found nothing indicating paprika is toxic to dogs other than it "could" be irritating to the eyes and nasal passages and gastrointestinal system because it is derived from peppers. This would mean it would have to be blown in their eyes, inhaled or eaten in quantities large enough to cause these issues. By some of the reasonings that foods are added to these list the dogfood you feed could be considered dangerous because feeding in large amounts leads to obesity which is detrimental to health.

 

Here's another website regarding the toxicity of paprika to dogs

 

http://www.justanswer.com/doghealth/43igl-paprika-harmful-dogs.html

[HopeForHounds]

I heard Dr Radcliff a vet from Wheeling Downs speak at Sandy Paws. He highly recommends all senior dogs be on CoQ10. He said to buy the best quality human version. So I would take from that it is safe for hounds.

 

If you are using it for the bennefit to the heart, Krill Oil is another good one.

[Guest grey_dreams]

... This would mean it would have to be ... eaten in quantities large enough to cause these issues.

 

Yes, that's the thing, what is the quantity that could cause problems. Zuki is rather unbalanced right now because there have been quite a few new medicines and supplements added to his normal diet, and his eczema wound up flaring up again, so now he had to go back on antibiotics too. I kind of don't want to take any chances that the paprika might further upset his already unbalanced state.

 

Thank you very much for all your help. Yesterday I did just cut a small hole in the end and squirt the stuff on his food. It's fairly viscous, but turns into a dense, sticky paste once it mixes with saliva (found that out personally, lol). I mixed it with peanut butter, so he was licking the roof of his mouth for a while. But it seemed to work ok.

 

I heard Dr Radcliff a vet from Wheeling Downs speak at Sandy Paws. He highly recommends all senior dogs be on CoQ10. He said to buy the best quality human version. So I would take from that it is safe for hounds.

 

If you are using it for the bennefit to the heart, Krill Oil is another good one.

 

Thank you very much Janet for this information. We started using Dr. Udo's Ultimate Oil Blend a couple of days ago (it was highly recommended by Marta Willliams after she talked with Zuki). I'll check out the krill oil too, thanks for the recommendation.

[silverfish]

I'm kind of interested in Q10, but does anyone know where it is sourced from? In other words, where do they get this stuff?

[4My2Greys]

... This would mean it would have to be ... eaten in quantities large enough to cause these issues.

 

Yes, that's the thing, what is the quantity that could cause problems. Zuki is rather unbalanced right now because there have been quite a few new medicines and supplements added to his normal diet, and his eczema wound up flaring up again, so now he had to go back on antibiotics too. I kind of don't want to take any chances that the paprika might further upset his already unbalanced state.

 

Thank you very much for all your help. Yesterday I did just cut a small hole in the end and squirt the stuff on his food. It's fairly viscous, but turns into a dense, sticky paste once it mixes with saliva (found that out personally, lol). I mixed it with peanut butter, so he was licking the roof of his mouth for a while. But it seemed to work ok.

 

I heard Dr Radcliff a vet from Wheeling Downs speak at Sandy Paws. He highly recommends all senior dogs be on CoQ10. He said to buy the best quality human version. So I would take from that it is safe for hounds.

 

If you are using it for the bennefit to the heart, Krill Oil is another good one.

 

Thank you very much Janet for this information. We started using Dr. Udo's Ultimate Oil Blend a couple of days ago (it was highly recommended by Marta Willliams after she talked with Zuki). I'll check out the krill oil too, thanks for the recommendation.

 

If you look at the second link I posted it says a large amount would have to be ingested to cause issues. The little bit that is in the capsules used for coloring would be far from constituting a large amount.

 

Edited to add thinking about it more I'd probably do as your doing and squeeze out the contents. Nadir has a problem with certain fish oil capsules. So I guess it's better safe than sorry. Maybe you could find some that doesn't use paprika in the coating.

Edited February 3, 2012 by 4My2Greys

[Guest grey_dreams]

Just wanted to give an update:

 

Zuki is responding phenomenally well to the CoQ10. He has more energy and more joy. It is clear from his entire expression that he is feeling better. I found the tip about CoQ10 from reading about heart disease and congestive heart failure on the internet. Because of its biochemical activity, I immediately felt that it would be good for Zuki. I discussed it with two regular vets (one a cardiac specialist) and our holistic vet. All were skeptical about it. But Marta Williams also said it would be good. I'm so glad I followed my own feeling about it. Zuki is really doing well with it.

 

The product I chose is a special high-purity preparation of CoQ10 suspended in micelles. The micelles provide a more direct entrance of the compound into cells. I would buy it again. I'm still cutting a small hole in one end of the capsule and squirting the stuff on some peanut butter, and giving it to him like that.

 

If anyone is wondering about giving CoQ10 to older or ill hounds, I can say that I recommend it.

 

Thanks again everyone for your information, feedback, and advice.

[4My2Greys]

Thank you for your update and letting us know how this is working. I'm always interested in learning about something that can improve their health. I think I'm going to look at adding this to my dogs regimen.

[HopeForHounds]

I'm so pleased to read that Zuki is doing so well on the CoQ10. Dr Radcliffe is speaking at Sandy Paws again. I'm planning on taking better notes this year, he has so many great, well researched suggestions.

[mychip1]

I'm kind of interested in Q10, but does anyone know where it is sourced from? In other words, where do they get this stuff?

 

I believe that it is found in fish.

 

My old horse was on it for the last few years nof his life for a heart murmer. It did wonders. There is a brand that has powder filled clear colored capsules.....those didn't have paprika in them.

 

One caution....I believe that if you plan on stopping CoQ10 at any point, you need to do it carefully. Apparently you can start it quickly, but the system almost learns to "depend" on it for heart health....so you just might want to keep that in your mind.

[kudzu]

One caution....I believe that if you plan on stopping CoQ10 at any point, you need to do it carefully. Apparently you can start it quickly, but the system almost learns to "depend" on it for heart health....so you just might want to keep that in your mind.

Interesting. Never heard that before. It's something to research certainly. My guy was on it for life so that issue never came up.

[silverfish]

I'm kind of interested in Q10, but does anyone know where it is sourced from? In other words, where do they get this stuff?

 

I believe that it is found in fish.

 

Well, darn it. That is the biggest no-no for me. It's why I haven't tried glucosamine/chondroitin supplements either. *Sigh*

[4My2Greys]

I'm kind of interested in Q10, but does anyone know where it is sourced from? In other words, where do they get this stuff?

 

I believe that it is found in fish.

 

Well, darn it. That is the biggest no-no for me. It's why I haven't tried glucosamine/chondroitin supplements either. *Sigh*

 

Do you not feed any fish? I don't know if it makes a difference, but Glucosamine is sourced from sharks which I have an with, however Coenzyme Q10 is sourced from sardines and mackerel. It is also found in the heart, liver and meat of beef and lamb.

[silverfish]

I'm kind of interested in Q10, but does anyone know where it is sourced from? In other words, where do they get this stuff?

 

I believe that it is found in fish.

 

Well, darn it. That is the biggest no-no for me. It's why I haven't tried glucosamine/chondroitin supplements either. *Sigh*

 

Do you not feed any fish? I don't know if it makes a difference, but Glucosamine is sourced from sharks which I have an with, however Coenzyme Q10 is sourced from sardines and mackerel. It is also found in the heart, liver and meat of beef and lamb.

 

Oh, sorry ... I wasn't very clear. I meant I was interested in the Coenzyme Q10 for me!

 

I have no problem giving Cosequin (or potentially Coenzyme Q10) to the dogs (I just make sure not to inhale the powder and wash my hands after use, just in case), but I can't feed them fishy foods, other than the fish I can eat - sardines, pilchards, herring, whitebait. They occasionally get a taste of DH's tuna, but I have to make sure they don't lick me afterwards.

 

For myself, it would seem that if I can source a product which doesn't contain fish, I'd probably be OK. Thanks!

[ilmg]

Good to hear Zuki is responding well!

My first greyhound had progressive heart disease and was on benazepril and spironolactone for several years. In her ninth year, when her heart condition dramatically progressed, her Tufts cardiologist increased her meds and she visibly started to fail. I reduced her meds and started CoQ10. Her cardiologist supported my decision and was impressed six months later to see she improved, stabilized, and had not progressed. Sadly, I lost her to lymphoma a few months after that visit.

 

I adopted another greyhound in August who retired last May after almost 200 races. Shortly after I adopted her, she went down lame after chasing a friend's dog and was not able to walk for several hours. I brought her in to a vet who heard a murmur. When additional blood work suggested a cardiac event, she saw a cardiologist who confirmed a leaking mitral valve. Fortunately, she appeared to have suffered a musculoskeletal event vs. heart attack. I started her on CoQ10 powder capsules (vs. oil) easily sprinkled over her food each morning. She is more energetic and hopefully will not need meds for a while.

 

CoQ10 and cognitive health is reduced in people on statins--this also applies to dogs: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21763754. I'm a believer and started taking New Chapter CoQ10 whole food supplements: http://www.newchapte...0-food-complex.

 

Just wanted to give an update:

 

Zuki is responding phenomenally well to the CoQ10. He has more energy and more joy. It is clear from his entire expression that he is feeling better. I found the tip about CoQ10 from reading about heart disease and congestive heart failure on the internet. Because of its biochemical activity, I immediately felt that it would be good for Zuki. I discussed it with two regular vets (one a cardiac specialist) and our holistic vet. All were skeptical about it. But Marta Williams also said it would be good. I'm so glad I followed my own feeling about it. Zuki is really doing well with it.

 

The product I chose is a special high-purity preparation of CoQ10 suspended in micelles. The micelles provide a more direct entrance of the compound into cells. I would buy it again. I'm still cutting a small hole in one end of the capsule and squirting the stuff on some peanut butter, and giving it to him like that.

 

If anyone is wondering about giving CoQ10 to older or ill hounds, I can say that I recommend it.

 

Thanks again everyone for your information, feedback, and advice.

[carronstar]

What dosage level are you using? Following this thread I started Aquitaine on COQ10 and she immediately became even bouncier...and she was pretty bouncy to begin with. She will be having her next blood tests in June so we will see if this and the Azodyl have helped. I feel like they are but I do like to see the results on paper!

[Guest grey_dreams]

Good to hear Zuki is responding well!

My first greyhound had progressive heart disease and was on benazepril and spironolactone for several years. In her ninth year, when her heart condition dramatically progressed, her Tufts cardiologist increased her meds and she visibly started to fail. I reduced her meds and started CoQ10. Her cardiologist supported my decision and was impressed six months later to see she improved, stabilized, and had not progressed. Sadly, I lost her to lymphoma a few months after that visit.

 

I adopted another greyhound in August who retired last May after almost 200 races. Shortly after I adopted her, she went down lame after chasing a friend's dog and was not able to walk for several hours. I brought her in to a vet who heard a murmur. When additional blood work suggested a cardiac event, she saw a cardiologist who confirmed a leaking mitral valve. Fortunately, she appeared to have suffered a musculoskeletal event vs. heart attack. I started her on CoQ10 powder capsules (vs. oil) easily sprinkled over her food each morning. She is more energetic and hopefully will not need meds for a while.

 

CoQ10 and cognitive health is reduced in people on statins--this also applies to dogs: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21763754. I'm a believer and started taking New Chapter CoQ10 whole food supplements: http://www.newchapte...0-food-complex.

 

 

Thank you for this information! At the beginning of January, Zuki was put on Enalapril (ACE inhibitor). His appetite started plunging after about 3 days, and by 7 days he basically didn't want to eat anything anymore, not even tuna or chicken. I worked with him for another week and then told the vet that Zuki could not tolerate the medicine. They said it was probably affecting his kidneys/liver, and suggested to try Benazapril. At first it seemed that it would be better, his appetite improved a little, but then bottomed out again. The vet said that Zuki was one of the rare dogs who could not tolerate ACE inhibitors.

 

When I was researching heart disease, I found several herbal remedies and other supplements that are used even for humans with heart disease and as support for people who are taking ACE inhibitors. So I went back to the literature and developed a treatment plan for Zuki (I am a researcher in biology, so I can read the medical literature to assess trials, dosages, outcomes, side-effects, and drug-drug interactions). Zuki now gets: hawthorn, ginkgo, dandelion, carnitine, taurine, and CoQ10. I've also modified his diet to include: wheatgrass powder, cooked oatmeal, lamb heart, and raw green tripe.

 

He is doing really great! He has more energy than he has for a long time, and he is very happy and bouncy. For the past few times that we went to the vet, before starting the herbal/supplement regime, his heart rate was about 35. The last time we went, his heart rate was 20. His blood pressure is almost perfect. The vet said that she could really see a difference and wanted to know about the treatment that he was getting.

 

Dogs with heart disease still need exercise too, but it's important to monitor their activity levels closely. I still let Zuki run, but not as often as before. We have a good friend in the neighborhood who has a galgo and three whippets, and we meet up in our local park that has a huge open field. Zuki is still the fastest of the whole pack! I only let him do one big run and then he goes back onleash. He also knows that he can't do more than that, so he is happy for his big run (to show the others that he will always be the fastest!) and to go back onleash. We have always done three walks everyday, for a total walking time of about 2-3 hours per day. I used to let him run 2-3 times a week, now it's around once every two weeks.

 

The vet also said that Zuki's condition was a musculo-skeletal disorder of the heart. There isn't any danger of arrhythmia or something like that.

[Guest grey_dreams]

What dosage level are you using? Following this thread I started Aquitaine on COQ10 and she immediately became even bouncier...and she was pretty bouncy to begin with. She will be having her next blood tests in June so we will see if this and the Azodyl have helped. I feel like they are but I do like to see the results on paper!

 

Zuki is on a special formulation of CoQ10, where it is suspended in micelles that are readily absorbed. With powdered formulations, the absorption is much lower, so you have to increase the dosage. The formulation we use contains 30 mg of CoQ10, but it is equivalent to the effect of dosing 90 mg of CoQ10, because it is completely absorbed. If I was giving a powdered form of CoQ10, I would give 100 mg. I have chosen the current dosage for this stage of Zuki's health. I plan to increase the dosage (hopefully many years from now!) if Zuki's condition requires it.

 

Does Aquitaine have kidney problems? If so, I might suggest that you could look into giving her some support with dandelion. It is a very gentle diuretic that also helps in removing toxins from the body (I tried it before giving it to Zuki, and it does work). Milk thistle has very good results too for both people and dogs. I wish you best luck with Aquitaine, hope her next tests show improvement.

[carronstar]

Thank you. We do think Aquitaine has the start of kidney problems due to results of two consecutive blood tests. I am hoping the third test in June, with the recent CoQ10, Azodyl, and Milk Thistle supplements, along with her meds, shows an improvement. My vet said that no change from the previous results on the last test (March) was a positive sign...I want to see a lowering of the levels. I'm a results oriented kind of girl!

 

I keep hoping that the recent results were due to her emergency splenectomy in December throwing of her levels for a couple of months. The surgeon said that with the exception of the tumor, she was grossly healthy. Since the tumor was benign, and the good kind (blood clot) to boot, I am hoping that really working with supplements to help her will show good results in June.

 

As I add supplements for Aquitaine, I reduce supplements for me. Just the way it goes with grey mamas.