Euthanasia Issues Revisited

[Guest SusanP]

Some of you may remember 18 months ago, when my Wizard had to be put down, things didn't go too well, and I was mulling the various methods of euthanasia for the future. I finally had a chat with a favorite vet about our options. She prefers an IV but acknowledged that it takes longer and requires more handling, and depending on the dog's mental state and condition, it may or may not work well. She agreed that the sedative our other vet used, while popular for this purpose, can sting quite a bit going in,though she said giving the injection slowly or cutting the medication with saline can help quite a bit. So I was pushing for other options--I remembered when one of my hounds has had to be knocked out briefly, they've used Domitor and then reversed it with another injection. I asked if that could be used first instead of a sedative, as it knocks the dog out completely. She said it could, but that it lowers blood pressure, which could make getting an IV in more difficult. She said what she can do in that case is inject the lethal drug directly into the heart, though some people don't like to see that done. (I had it done with my rabbits when they were pts, and they seemed ok with it, so I don't think I'd have that problem), and in this situation, the dog would be completely unconscious. So we've tentatively decided that in the future a plan might be Domitor first, followed by either an IV or injection into the heart.

 

Has anyone gone that route or does anyone have any insight into that plan? Can anyone see any drawbacks to it?

 

I'm still so emotional about Wizard's death that this is the first I've been able to discuss this with a vet (not the vet who did Wizard's euthanasia), and I shook all the way home it was so emotional for me, but I'm feeling cautiously optimistic that I will have a better plan in place for my now and future dogs, when the time comes.

Edited January 18, 2012 by SusanP

[GeorgeofNE]

My Kramer was 75 pounds--the vet took him in the back and inserted a catheter. The drugs went into the catheter. He was gone before he could take a deep breath.

 

He was the third dog I have personally taken to be put to sleep--only once did it happen any other way--and that dog had to be given a second injection, and it was rather upsetting, but again, over quickly.

 

My cat was gone before the syringe was fully depressed.

[racindog]

IMO it all depends on the dog. My husbands Rottie required FOUR syringes. The vet kept sending the tech to get another one-sure each one was the last one that would be needed. He was very stressed but it wasn't his fault, sometimes it just happens. Babe didn't suffer as she was still sedated and surrounded with love. It has been my experience that most of the time they need very litttle help crossing over so most are peaceful and quick-except for with large animals like a horse. I won't go there. I have discussed this with vet(s) and all have been in agreement. I think a person just has to do what they think is the most loving thing they can do. Also I consider'what if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the dog-what would I want'?

 

 

[Guest Geostar]

When our Grace was 'ready to go', our vet carefully put her to sleep as if she were going through an operation. Twenty minutes later, she injected the other dose. She left extremely quickly. It was a great time for us to say 'good bye'..and talk to her. In my mind, I saw her running across a meadow. Grace was laughing as she ran as now she was free from any pain! It took us over a year before we adopted another greyhound. I still miss my beautiful gir..

 

With our other greys, I'd desire the same thing done to them when it is their time.

 

-star

[Guest Snazzy_Chloe]

We just had Marissa PTS and it was a wonderfully swift and peaceful experience for both of us, I believe. She was standing up and the vet gave her a shot in the forearm while the assistant and I held her as she immediately relaxed, and we lowered her to the floor. He just said that she was gone.

I did wonder if he just gave her a very strong sedative and gave her something else after we left as he never checked her heartbeat. I guess I trust him to do the right thing for my dog if this was the case. The dog knew we were with her when she went to sleep.

 

Past experiences with two other dogs where the vet injected two different drugs into an IV and the dogs gasped while they inhaled sharply and then had a deep exhale when the second shot went in which was troubling for us and also possibly for the dog. The vet listened to the heartbeat for a couple minutes and had to add more drugs when the heart did not stop after a period of time. This was a lot more disconcerting probably for us than the dog but it was an unpleasant experience to deal with on top of the dogs death.

 

Even so we were proud to help our dog through this, it is part of our responsibility as a pet owner - a lot of owners can't face it and just dump their dogs off at the vet, pay the bill and then leave because they know it will be an unpleasant experience for them.

[Guest SueG201]

I have had to put a lot of animals to sleep, some old and some with cancer and it never gets easier, but wth my vet he gives the dog a sedative first, and then he comes in with a needle and inserts it into a vein

Most of my animals went very quickly and quietly. My whippet who I lost at 8 to some unknown blood disorder

fought a little longer and it ripped my heart to shreds, but the substitute dopey vet did n ot give the sedative first.

[Guest KennelMom]

We've euthanized more than our fair share of dogs...each vet seems to have their own "preferred" technique. Most have, fortunately, been very peaceful and quiet. A few were kinda tough. They (e-vet) had a hard time getting the catheter into Scout's leg...Bucky needed an additional syringe - Ken thought I was gonna come unglued when that happened. Those are really the only two that had "issues." When we said goodbye to Haley, I warned the vet that she is a fighter when it comes to drugs and I asked her to please, please, please make sure Haley went peacefully. I think I asked about the dormitor and she said something about it lowering blood pressure. After that I just left it to her judgment...I don't know what sedative cocktail she used, but she made a good call b/c it was really peaceful. Our normal vet doesn't usually do a catheter and I prefer that, actually. They usually do an IM injection of a sedative and then one shot in the vein.

 

I'm not sure I could handle a heart stick. I've only ever heard horror stories about that method, but maybe that's when it's used on animals that aren't totally sedated.

 

It's never easy. Unexpected things can always happen. I'm not sure there is a "most" humane or "surefire" way to euthanize b/c every animal is different.

[Hubcitypam]

Just went through this last week. My vet that went to Ohio State is TOTALLY against using Dormitor in that situation -- fist pounding against it. He said that it constricts the blood vessels and makes it much harder. He has convinced the older vets in the practice to stop using it for euthanesia. He did use it on her for her radiograph.

 

He gave Girl something that started with Turbo. We sat there about 10-15 minutes until she settled. He put the last dose in the vein in her back leg with no problems...except her heart just wouldn't stop -- and he used more than recommended. He finally sent the tech for more but she was gone when the tech got back. She wasn't fighting and I don't think she knew where she was but I kept singing silly dog songs to her until Dr. Josh removed his stethoscope and gave me a nod.

 

When I took Buddy in for his wellness check I asked if the Dormitor could have contributed to Kenny Roo Who's horrific passing and he said that it probably did.

 

I did an IV and dual shots into the IV line with Rex and would probably not do that again.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Hubcitypam

[tbhounds]

A cardiac stick?? Absolutely not- no- not ever. The only appropriate time for that is when the pet is completely in unconscience.

Sadly, I assist euths frequently. I think the most peaceful passings are when an IV cath is placed prior to the procedure. It's a rather simple procedure especially in GH's because for the most part they have rather large easily accessible veins.

By doing so a pre sed like propofol can be given prior to the final injection. It's a very peaceful passing.

A cardiac injection- no.

Edited January 18, 2012 by tbhounds

[LuvAPuppy]

Just went through this last week. My vet that went to Ohio State is TOTALLY against using Dormitor in that situation -- fist pounding against it. He said that it constricts the blood vessels and makes it much harder. He has convinced the older vets in the practice to stop using it for euthanesia. He did use it on her for her radiograph.

 

He gave Girl something that started with Turbo. We sat there about 10-15 minutes until she settled. He put the last dose in the vein in her back leg with no problems...except her heart just wouldn't stop -- and he used more than recommended. He finally sent the tech for more but she was gone when the tech got back. She wasn't fighting and I don't think she knew where she was but I kept singing silly dog songs to her until Dr. Josh removed his stethoscope and gave me a nod.

 

When I took Buddy in for his wellness check I asked if the Dormitor could have contributed to Kenny Roo Who's horrific passing and he said that it probably did.

 

I did an IV and dual shots into the IV line with Rex and would probably not do that again.

 

It was probably Torbogesic

[JJNg]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a previous euthanasia. As others have mentioned, each vet has their own preferences for euthanasia protocols, usually based on training and past experiences. While we strive to make the process as smooth as possible in every case, that doesn't always happen. Individual responses to drugs and needle pricks can vary, and we can't always predict unusual reactions. So don't assume that a bad experience is due to the protocol the vet chose to use. The exact same process might go very smoothly for the next dog. We know how difficult this decision is for the owner, and we feel horrible when euthanasias don't go as planned. And vets are especially grateful when the owner is understanding when this happens.

 

I tend to adjust my protocol based on each individual case, looking at factors such as size of the pet, temperament, level of alertness, hydration status, etc. For smaller dogs and cats, and ones that are dehydrated, I feel that having an IV catheter in place helps ensure the injection goes smoothly. For larger dogs that I feel confident about hitting a vein, I don't always use an IV catheter. For pets that are fairly alert, I always sedate, although it might be IV after the cathether is placed, or IM prior to the cathether, depending on temperament.

 

If I'm going to sedate prior to IV catheter placement or IV injection of the euthanasia solution, I usually go IM. I feel it results in faster and more predictable absorption and response compared to SQ. IM injections can sting a little, but with appropriate distraction (such as having the tech rubbing or scratching hard somewhere else) and injecting slowly, I usually don't get much of a response.

 

What sedative was Wizard given IM that stung so badly? I personally don't like sedating with Domitor by itself for any reason. When Domitor is used alone, sometimes the dog can seem to be asleep but react strongly when stimulated. So, I always use it in combination with another mild sedative. For other medical procedures, I usually combine it with butorphanol. For euthanasia, I've had good luck adding a small amount of acepromazine, but I only use Domitor if it's a case where I want heavier sedation. For lighter sedation, I usually use acepromazine with butorphanol.

 

I used to work at a practice (a very good one, I might add) that routinely used Domitor, either alone or with butorphanol, prior to euthanasia, and I found that many of these dogs had the involuntary muscle twitching and gasping you can sometimes see afterward. I get much less of this when ace is included in the sedative. While the pet doesn't feel any of the involuntary muscle contractions after the injection of euthanasia solution, if I can do my best to reduce the chances of this happening, I believe it makes the experience more peaceful for the owner.

 

Regarding the issue of Domitor dropping blood pressure and making it harder to hit a vein (either with a catheter, or directly with the needle), this is true, but I don't usually find this to be a huge issue, especially for a large dog and if the Domitor dose is kept toward the lower end.

 

I agree with tbhounds about no injections into the heart unless the dog is fully under general anesthesia. Injectable sedatives do not get the pet deep enough to make this acceptable. I've only had to do this with cats and exotics, and I will use gas anesthesia by mask first to make sure they are fully under.

 

I also wanted to add that I don't think there's anything wrong with an owner deciding not to stay with their pet through the euthanasia process. It is a very personal choice, and some people just can't handle it. I don't judge them for that decision. My staff and I make it as loving and peaceful a process as we can, regardless of whether or not the owner is present.

[Guest SusanP]

Just went through this last week. My vet that went to Ohio State is TOTALLY against using Dormitor in that situation -- fist pounding against it. He said that it constricts the blood vessels and makes it much harder. He has convinced the older vets in the practice to stop using it for euthanesia.

 

 

 

I'm a little confused. My vet also said it can constrict the blood vessels, and that's why she mentioned doing an injection directly into the heart. Am I correct that with Dormitor, the dog would be completely unconscious and unable to feel whatever is done? In that case, why would an injection into the heart be so bad? Is there something about this I'm missing?

 

I personally don't like sedating with Domitor by itself for any reason. When Domitor is used alone, sometimes the dog can seem to be asleep but react strongly when stimulated.

 

Oh! This is all so difficult.

 

The problem for me is not in being with the dog; I would not consider *not* being with my dog. It's not about me--I don't mind involuntary twitching or whatever ***if I am 100% sure the dog is feeling nothing*** All I want is to be sure the experience is in no way traumatic for my dog. Our experiences with euthanasia before Wizard were reasonably good ones, and I didn't shy away from it, knowing it would spare my animals more and longer suffering, but at this point, I am feeling so horribly distrustful of the process. I've been stewing over this for so many months now, and I'm having a huge problem with it all. My hounds are getting old, and I have to get this all straight in my head. Why is it so hard to make a dog completely unconscious without so much difficulty before giving the lethal injection? On the surface, it seems like it would be such a simple matter....

Edited January 19, 2012 by SusanP

[tbhounds]

Sometimes a pre sed or a cath isn't really neccesary but, with an alert, upset or agitated pet your vet wants to have the process be a peacefully stress free one for you and your beloved pet. There is nothing worse than have a pet jump, startle or worse become aggressive during the process.

Sorry you have had a horrible experience in the past. There's truly no right or wrong way to approach euthanasia.

Each passing should be tailored to the client and the pet.

[Guest verthib]

I had an old vet years ago who put one of our cats to sleep with a heart stick. Never again! It was a little violent and did not appear peaceful at all. I also could not hold him or stroke him. It felt very cold and barbaric.

[tbhounds]

I had an old vet years ago who put one of our cats to sleep with a heart stick. Never again! It was a little violent and did not appear peaceful at all. I also could not hold him or stroke him. It felt very cold and barbaric.

It's truly awful. Never, ever unless the pet is gravely ill and unconscience.