Severe Separation Anxiety With Ross

[Guest Ross_a_Roo]

ok, so hubby and I finally did a recording of the 2.5-3 hours we were gone today....

 

Constant whining, lots and lots of very loud barking/howling as well...

 

This has seriously changed our outlook at this situation. This is really bad, I'm going to be writing letters to allllll of our many neighbors on all sides of us in this apartment building for their long suffering. I don't know how long she's been doing this, but my guess is: the whole time, since we've gotten her.

 

I ordered the book by Patricia McConnell, and also a DAP diffuser, but I doubt those will fix the problem... I think i'm going to talk to some different vets/greyhound ppl and see what kind of action they recommend...

 

Do we look for a calming drug, another greyhound, what? I just have no clue at this point... but it's very discouraging to see just how much noise and commotion she makes when we're gone...

 

What do I do? ((((

[Guest sheila]

I really don't know much since I haven't encountered this problem. Some dogs seem to be soothed by the Canine Lullabies CD

http://www.caninelullabies.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=7

[mychip1]

I'm sure lots of people here will have suggestions....Just by chance, any shot that you can get another hound?

 

 

I am sending all my good wishes....

[krissy]

Drugs should be a last resort and should ideally only be used in order to reduce anxiety enough to allow a response to training. Most cases of SA can be solved with patience and proper training. Some cases are more severe and may require medication to facilitate training. And an even more select few simply can't be alone, but those are pretty few and far between.

 

That book is fantastic. Take a good read through it and follow it step by step. Don't rush. If you can only walk out of the room or apartment for 2 seconds and she starts crying... you've moved too fast too soon. The idea of training is to never allow the dog a chance to become anxious. This is of course difficult because most of us can't just say "Alright, for this week I'm training the dog and I won't go to work or run errands". But at least when you're doing the actual training, don't do more than your dog is comfortable with and take small steps.

[Brandiandwe]

We had problems with SA (pottying in the house etc), and ended up getting another hound (which wee had wanted to do anyhow). The SA cleared up immediately, but we've got a nice blend of personalities. They've been together two weeks, and are perfect. However, they are also slightly more work and more $$$$$.

[ChiliDog]

We used to tell our adopters to get another hound

HOWEVER! We brought Pepper home June 1st, to two other hounds. Pepper was fine at the beginning and has recently (about 2 months now) developed SA with the other 2 there!

 

And, we live on the 12th floor of an apartment building and I know those kind of note you find on your door. Wait til someone calls the police - THAT was pleasant...

 

We recently started him on clomicalm and will start behavior mod as soon as it 'kicks in". After that - Prozac, maybe I dunno.

 

Good luck with Ross.

[Houndtime]

You could try melatonin. The DAP worked very well in this house. Try lavender scented oil for calming that you would buy in the health food store or from GH Gang (every $ helps the dogs). Rescue Remedy didn't do much here. Try all the naturals before you resort to sedatives.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Houndtime

[GeorgeofNE]

Trust me, I know what this is like! My dog was the same way.

 

Is she being crated? What fixed my dog INSTANTLY was getting rid of the crate. I really tried the crate--I think he stayed in it for six miserable weeks or more. Once I got rid of it, one of my neighbors actually came by and said, "I hope you didn't get rid of the dog because of ME!" and I said, "I didn't get rid of the DOG, I got rid of the crate that made him so unhappy!"

 

I'm sorry--I don't remember if you told us you were crating her or not.

 

Drugs are a last resort, IMHO. You have really tried much, yet, so for her sake as well as yours, I hope you'll give the alone training a good try! I really does help!

[Guest Ross_a_Roo]

She isn't crated, we leave a live recording of an album on so there is guitar music and some talking. we don't make big deals of coming home or leaving the house. the tight shirt hasn't seemed to help and neither has a couple drops of herbal anxiety stuff in food, treats, etc...

[Guest mountain4greys]

Trust me, I know what this is like! My dog was the same way.

 

Is she being crated? What fixed my dog INSTANTLY was getting rid of the crate. I really tried the crate--I think he stayed in it for six miserable weeks or more. Once I got rid of it, one of my neighbors actually came by and said, "I hope you didn't get rid of the dog because of ME!" and I said, "I didn't get rid of the DOG, I got rid of the crate that made him so unhappy!"

 

I'm sorry--I don't remember if you told us you were crating her or not.

 

Drugs are a last resort, IMHO. You have really tried much, yet, so for her sake as well as yours, I hope you'll give the alone training a good try! I really does help!

 

 

I was going to ask about the crate to. My first greyhound screamed at the top of her lungs all day, had the runs really bad, and chewed up her blanket to pieces while in the crate. I was only gone 2 hours every other day. We took the crate down, and no more problems.

Edited December 5, 2011 by mountain4greys

[rallyp]

You need to trust the process outlined in the Patricia McConnell book first. I've had a couple of foster dogs who exhibited pretty loud separation anxiety behavior and the best, most long lasting, solution is proper alone training. Keep in mind, it doesn't always just instantly work. It can take a little time (and a lot of patience). Another thing to remember, as you go through this, it can seem like no progress is being made (when in fact, it is). I wouldn't consider medications unless your dog starting hurting itself or damaging things.

[Guest mbfilby]

Myka has some SA even with the other three hounds here. She does much better when not crated, but then she takes out her anxiety on innocent household items. For her it is not all the time. Not sure yet what dictates a "bad day".

 

What has worked well for shorter absences is a kong. I stuff it with oversize treats that can not be removed (a medium milkbone broken in half) then top that off with PB and kibble mixed. Since the treats won't come out, she must lick and worry at it. It keeps her busy for a good few hours.

[Guest Ross_a_Roo]

Ok, well, I talked with Shelley Ann Bunch-Lake. I'm going to work with her on trying to find another retired gal to help ease Ross's loneliness, since that seems to solve most of the problems. I'll still give a full read thru of the book and plug in the diffuser when it arrives. Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I'd still love to hear what you have to say about Separation Anxiety so I can pay forward the info to the next person who deals with it!

 

[Guest jbbuzby]

I have been there, and have survived to tell the tale. Ferguson's SA got so bad that he would tear up his paws on things, meaning we couldn't exercise him to help take the edge off...it was HORRIBLE. Only recently have I been able to actually leave my house without too much bother, and I've had Ferguson for almost a year!!!

 

You name, we have it/tried it. DAP diffuser, thundershirt, k9 lullabies, stuffed kongs, exercise...EVERYTHING to no avail. What worked ultimately: another hound in the house, Patricia McConnell's book, and fluoxetine (prozac). I am not one to drug my dogs, but I had tried every single other option. The medication helps condition their brain to not go into panic mode and makes them able to learn instead. It is not a tranquilizer, and with Ferguson, I had no side effects. He is still his happy go-lucky self, but minus that horrific problem of turning to pathetic mush at the thought of me leaving.

 

For me, I couldn't imagine returning him. He is literally 100% perfect in all other ways; the SA was his only flaw. So, we worked through it, and now all is well. Admittedly, he will still get up and circle when we leave, showing some very mild anxiety, but nothing compared to what it once was. We've been conditioning him by conforming to a fairly rigid routine so he knows exactly what to expect, which, I think, is able to occur as result of the fluoxetine. Having another hound for company is also helping, but I'm hoping, like the fluoxetine, we can wean him off of this to make him comfortable enough on his own.

 

In any case, SA is hard and takes a long time and a lot of patience to work through, but not impossible. Have faith, and hang in there! I totally know what you're going through!

[Guest Ross_a_Roo]

I have been there, and have survived to tell the tale. Ferguson's SA got so bad that he would tear up his paws on things, meaning we couldn't exercise him to help take the edge off...it was HORRIBLE. Only recently have I been able to actually leave my house without too much bother, and I've had Ferguson for almost a year!!!

 

You name, we have it/tried it. DAP diffuser, thundershirt, k9 lullabies, stuffed kongs, exercise...EVERYTHING to no avail. What worked ultimately: another hound in the house, Patricia McConnell's book, and fluoxetine (prozac). I am not one to drug my dogs, but I had tried every single other option. The medication helps condition their brain to not go into panic mode and makes them able to learn instead. It is not a tranquilizer, and with Ferguson, I had no side effects. He is still his happy go-lucky self, but minus that horrific problem of turning to pathetic mush at the thought of me leaving.

 

For me, I couldn't imagine returning him. He is literally 100% perfect in all other ways; the SA was his only flaw. So, we worked through it, and now all is well. Admittedly, he will still get up and circle when we leave, showing some very mild anxiety, but nothing compared to what it once was. We've been conditioning him by conforming to a fairly rigid routine so he knows exactly what to expect, which, I think, is able to occur as result of the fluoxetine. Having another hound for company is also helping, but I'm hoping, like the fluoxetine, we can wean him off of this to make him comfortable enough on his own.

 

In any case, SA is hard and takes a long time and a lot of patience to work through, but not impossible. Have faith, and hang in there! I totally know what you're going through!

 

 

Well, I'm going to work with a friend of mine who is a vet and works with one of the local tracks and we're going to find Ross a sister who will hopefully help with the SA! I'll definitely work with Ross on the "I'll be home soon" tactics tho.

 

I know what you mean about the perfect dog minus the SA. Ross sure fits the bill. She's such a sweetie, no other problems!

[Guest jbbuzby]

Hurray! Good luck with a sibling!!! Be forewarned, it may take a few days to work, as they need to bond a bit first to recognize each other as being in the same family group. But after that, you should be good to go! Just make sure you crate or muzzle them when left .

[Guest JustGreyt05]

Thumbs up for the recording! I'm sorry it revealed a less than ideal situation with your pup.... same thing happened to me when I recorded my hound! You're not alone! Talk to your vet... he/she should have some suggestions and may recommend referral to a behaviorist. And I still think that, if you are able to take some steps to rule out *crate* anxiety, medications are absolutely indicated. My own opinion. Good luck! I sympathize with you!!

[Guest BrianRke]

Just a suggestion: When choosing a mate for your boy, ask the adoption coordinator about their personalities. A confident, self assured dog will probably work out much better.

[Guest Ross_a_Roo]

Well, it's difficult to tell by the name, but she's a girl. and she'll be getting a sister. we're looking at a very similar gal. she raced a bit and had some litters, just like Ross, so hopefully she works out, but there are plenty of greyt girls out there i'm sure we'll find one that Ross enjoys being with.

[jaym1]

i am battling this issue right now with my 4-year-old male. he was adopted about two months ago. he is non-destructive, but yaps and barks and is miserable all day. after trying everything, my behaviorist came up with a plan that made sense: do not EVER leave him alone long enough to go into panic mode while alone training. the anxiety that being alone for too long, too soon, creates leaves a lasting memory that he associates my leaving with, which only perpetuates the problem. he is then not only afraid of being alone, he is afraid of the coming anxiety attack he knows he is about to suffer. i now have him in day care three days per week, and i borrow a friends confident female greyhound for the two other days. he is perfectly happy to hang around the house with her.

 

right now i have him up to about 20 minutes of alone time before the fit hits the shan. and now, unlike before, he can actually be distracted by treats or food left out for him, whereas at the outset, he wouldnt eat or drink while i was gone. i know this because i leave my laptop open when im out, and monitor him via webcam. i am also practicing leaving high value treats that he only gets while im out of the house. for instance, today is all about introducing him to his first giant marrow bone. marrow bone down, im out the door, 5 or 10 minutes later im in the door, marrow bone goes away, repeat ad infinitum. progress is still very slow, but i really want to make sure he can cope with his new life, and building confidence is part of that.

 

i thought about adopting a second, but i dont feel like thats a solution. he would still have the problem, i'd just be avoiding leaving him alone, and sooner or later, there will be times when he needs the confidence to be on his own.

[Guest jbbuzby]

I had a very similar experience as Jaym, but found that the alone training went a lot more smoothly when I did have another pup; the routine becomes more rigid, and I can have more control over when I can practice the truly "Alone" part without having to pay for expensive daycare and making lots of other arrangements. In short, the SA is still something you should work on with Ross, but you will have more control over it in many regards. For me, things are still fairly unstable schedule and housing wise (as in, I will probably have to move a couple more times in the next five years)...for some hounds, this wouldn't cause any problem, but for mine? I'd keep having to start back at square one again. Having another pup help makes it a lot smoother for me. If I were to live in the same place with the same routine for years to come, doing it with a single pup would be more possible, but for now, I'll accept that cushion of secondary dog to make my life a good bit easier so I can take my time.

[jaym1]

I had a very similar experience as Jaym, but found that the alone training went a lot more smoothly when I did have another pup; the routine becomes more rigid, and I can have more control over when I can practice the truly "Alone" part without having to pay for expensive daycare and making lots of other arrangements. In short, the SA is still something you should work on with Ross, but you will have more control over it in many regards. For me, things are still fairly unstable schedule and housing wise (as in, I will probably have to move a couple more times in the next five years)...for some hounds, this wouldn't cause any problem, but for mine? I'd keep having to start back at square one again. Having another pup help makes it a lot smoother for me. If I were to live in the same place with the same routine for years to come, doing it with a single pup would be more possible, but for now, I'll accept that cushion of secondary dog to make my life a good bit easier so I can take my time.

 

That is a pretty good point. My one fear is that I may be losing my job, and may therefore find it necessary to relocate this summer. THAT is something I am not looking forward to, and fear that it may present a setback. I would actually really love to have a second dog, but I want a more stable situation first.

 

As to daycare. . . I was lucky to find a situation right around the corner where he's happy that only costs $25/day. This is still way over my budget, especially considering all the vet bills I've had since getting him (digestion issues). But as a temporary fix, I am willing to pay for it.

Edited December 27, 2011 by jaym1

[Guest iLoveLucie]

We the same issue with our girl Lucie. We recorded her and heard lots of howling/crying, if we were gone 20 minutes or 3 hours, same results. One of our neighbors in our apartment building complained (nicely). We tried lots of different things (crate, no crate - kongs, music, TV, thundershirt, calming treats, training based on the I'll Be Home Soon book) without much luck. We started fostering as a way to see if a second hound would work for her and for us. She stopped howling the minute she was left alone with another dog. We fell in love with our second foster boy and adopted him and it's been going great. Lucie seems like a more confident dog now that she has a friend. I think we got lucky that this helped our dog, and I know it doesn't work for all/most dogs. I am curious to know what would happen if we left her alone now... we might have to try it and break out the recorder again.

[Wonder]

I know you have decided to return Ross but wanted to share what it was like with Lena

Lena had bad SA- she was returned twice because of it. Destroyed a bedroom in her first home. Broke out of the crate and has the scars to show for it. Peed/pooped all over the house. Barked herself hoarse.

 

The first month as my foster was hell. I used DAP, melatonin, walking every day-nothing worked.

She was even with 3 other hounds.

 

The only thing that worked what time.

6 months later, she's a completely different hound.

No SA at all although she does still get anxious in new environments.

[jaym1]

I know you have decided to return Ross but wanted to share what it was like with Lena

Lena had bad SA- she was returned twice because of it. Destroyed a bedroom in her first home. Broke out of the crate and has the scars to show for it. Peed/pooped all over the house. Barked herself hoarse.

 

The first month as my foster was hell. I used DAP, melatonin, walking every day-nothing worked.

She was even with 3 other hounds.

 

The only thing that worked what time.

6 months later, she's a completely different hound.

No SA at all although she does still get anxious in new environments.

 

what was your approach to treating lena's anxiety, if i may ask?