Incontinence

[Guest shelbud]

Gustav, my soon to be 13 year old male has developed a form of incontinence. Up until the past couple of weeks there was no issue in leaving him in the house for hours on end. He slept through the night without having to go outside to pee. Suddenly that has changed. He has had several accidents in the house, both while we are home and away from the house. He now gets us up every 3-4 hours at night. Several urinalysis have come back clean. His diet hasn't changed. Our vet has us trying Proin 2X/day. Although it is usually given to females with leakage issues, he says there is no harm in giving it to Gustav. After a few days on the med., Gustav slept through the night. Unfortunately, for us, that was the only time. He's back to waking us up several times each night. We thought of using diapers but that makes no sense since he wakes us up to go outside by barking. We can't leave him out at night as it's too cold. He won't use a dog door.

 

Anyone out there had similar issues with their hound? If so, what did you do about the problem. Suggestions are welcomed.

 

Sheldon

[greyhead]

Before you do anything else, I think you should have a urine culture. It can catch what urinalysis misses. In our case, it was E. coli. After that, kidney values should be checked.

 

It's a bad idea to take Proin unless and until infection has been ruled out. And some would say even then it's a bad idea.

[Guest greyers]

As greyhead pointed out, have that urine looked at again with a different test. That would definitely be the first thing to try.

 

The only times any of my greys have had such bad issues (multiple accidents a day), was:

 

1) when Prudence twice had a UTI

 

2) When our 11 year old first greyhound suddenly started turning very sick and her body started shutting down. This incontinence was the initial symptom and why we went into the vets in the first place, but nothing they gave us was helping and her urine was clean. A week later, after she had been peeing in bed 3 times in the middle of the night without even waking, she suddenly was not herself and started acting sick. We took her to the vet and she was in sepsis. It was many years ago now, so hard to remember but they must have done bloodwork initially and it didn't show anything? Again, I do not recall but suddenly she was dealthy ill and within 24 hours we were having to make the most difficult decision a pet owner has to make.

 

I do not mean to scare you with that story, but I will say that if after having the urine tested again with a different test, if still nothing shows and with his age, ask to have bloodwork done to see if your boy has something else going on with his body.

 

I am so sorry that you guys are going through this and he is lucky to have such understanding and loving owners!

[Guest shelbud]

Gustav has had several urine tests as well as the one that tests for Cushings. All came back normal and he doesn't have the pot bellied look or loss of hair. SG is also in the normal range. He is drinking much more water than usual and the vet says that's because he is peeing more. I should also add that during this time he's had pretty bad diarrhea. Put him on a diet of chicken breasts, white rice and canned pumpkin. Not much improvement. Vet put him on a course of Clavamox. Diarrhea cleared up. Diarrhea has returned and he's on a second course of Clavamox and the diarrhea has stopped.

 

Gustav's diet hasn't changed. He gets Nutro Chicken and Rice for Large Breeds and has eaten that since I got him almost 9 years ago. He has a VERY healthy appetite and has always eaten like a horse.

[Guest sheila]

 

 

Anyone out there had similar issues with their hound? If so, what did you do about the problem. Suggestions are welcomed.

 

Sheldon

 

I figure that when a dogs gotta go, they just gotta go. When I was in this position I just resigned myself to getting up once or twice in the middle of the night.. It got to be such a habit that even after my dog passed, I still woke up several times a night. Another option might be to try and train him to use a pee pad in a designated location.

[GeorgeofNE]

I agree with a previous poster--a dog that age needs a medical work up.

 

I expect something inside isn't working right.

[Guest shelbud]

A couple of months ago he had a $1000 physical at UC Davis and nothing abnormal showed up. His regular vet doesn't think an ultrasound is necessary as Gustav is not showing symptoms of bladder or kidney stones. He might just be getting old and we'll have to live with it. I just want to make sure that we've explored possible causes.

 

One other note. About a month before all this started, we had one rear toe amputated due to corns. He had become an invalid, barely able to walk. Now he takes long walks and actually has become somewhat of a pain in the rear. Now, whenever he hears a knife hit the cutting board, he's right there in the kitchen whereas before he wouldn't even walk in.

[Batmom]

Current bloodwork (CBC & chemistry) and blood pressure check.would be worthwhile.

 

If all else fails, might try him on a lower-sodium food such as prescription kidney diet or Innova Senior (not Senior Plus). Might want to add some protein such as an egg or couple ounces hamburger or chicken to those as they are quite low protein.

[Guest BrianRke]

Drinking lots of water and frequent urination could be a symptom of diabetes.

[tbhounds]

He might be drinking more simply because he's reached an advanced age and he may be coming confused. Does the vet feel he might have the beginnings of cognitive disfunction? He's kidney function seems to be well as he's concentrating his urine well.

Proin is usually the go to medication for males- the only thing that I would check before I continued it's use is his blood pressure. Does he have protein present in his urine?

Edited to add- diarrhea may be from the increase in his water consumption-- water is the world best laxative!

Edited November 2, 2011 by tbhounds

[JJNg]

Gustav, my soon to be 13 year old male has developed a form of incontinence. .... He's back to waking us up several times each night. We thought of using diapers but that makes no sense since he wakes us up to go outside by barking.

What you're describing doesn't sound like incontinence at all. Incontinence is involuntary urinary leakage. If he's waking you up and asking to go outside, that isn't incontinence. Since he's drinking more and producing more urine, he's going to need to go out more often, which is probably why he can't hold it overnight anymore. I'm assuming he's probably urinating pretty large amounts when he goes out? Proin works by improving the muscle tone of the urinary sphincter, which helps if the dog is leaking urine due to a loss of muscle tone there. It won't do anything for a dog whose bladder simply can't hold the amount of urine he's producing. And all meds come with potential side effects, so I would disagree with the idea that there can be "no harm" in giving Proin.

 

Gustav has had several urine tests as well as the one that tests for Cushings. All came back normal and he doesn't have the pot bellied look or loss of hair. SG is also in the normal range. He is drinking much more water than usual and the vet says that's because he is peeing more.

What's his USG been? Even dilute (isosthenuric) or borderline concentrated urine is included in the 'normal range' of many labs. Any protein in his urine? Has he had a recent blood chemistry panel? The most common causes of increased drinking and urination are kidney disease, diabetes, and Cushing's. Diabetes is easily confirmed or ruled out with bloodwork, and it sounds like you've also checked for Cushings.

 

With early kidney disease, you can see increased drinking and urination and dilute urine before there are any changes on the bloodwork. The kidneys lose the ability to concentrate urine (leading to dilute urine and increased drinking and urination) when there has been 2/3 loss of function. Kidney values on bloodwork don't go up until there's been loss of 3/4 of kidney function. Here's a good article I recently posted on another thread about urine specific gravity.

 

Even if his last blood panel was normal, unless it was done within the last month or so, I'd recommend repeating bloodwork to see if anything's changed. If you want to pursue a diagnosis more aggressively, an abdominal ultrasound can often detect changes in the kidneys, as well as assess the adrenal glands (affected by Cushing's). What was done at UC Davis a couple months ago, and was he being worked up for the current urination issue, or something else?

[gracegirl]

A couple of months ago he had a $1000 physical at UC Davis and nothing abnormal showed up. His regular vet doesn't think an ultrasound is necessary as Gustav is not showing symptoms of bladder or kidney stones. He might just be getting old and we'll have to live with it. I just want to make sure that we've explored possible causes.

 

 

 

Fenway is just 5 years old and back in February of 2011 stared having accidents inside the house. After multiple U/As and cultures, a few rounds of ABs, blood work, etc. the vet suggested an ultrasound. Lo and behold, it revealed minor kidney damage of an unknown origin. Bottom line: that's just how he is now. He's not showing signs of kidney damage or failure so we are monitoring his blood and urine values every few months but otherwise I'm just learning to live with pee. He's getting better and sometimes wears a diaper when I'm gone, but otherwise I'm just getting used to letting him out in the middle of the night more often. DBF and I take turns, but it's getting easier and easier to fall back asleep now. Good luck with your boy. I would recommend an ultrasound as it did give me the answers I was looking for.

[GeorgeofNE]

You spend $1,000 on a workup tht did NOT include an ultrasound? Wow.

 

There are a lot of reasons to do an ultrasound besides stones.

[cleptogrey]

has he had any new treats or chewies? there could be a toxin in them. many are made out of the states and even the "american made" have had recalls they could be affecting his system. if he has a relaxed sphincter(sp)was he on them long enoughfor the hormones to take effect? i always ask a second time and ask to have info explained on "layman terms". also ask if it's signs of "old age". all dogs age differently, some never become incontient, some do.

 

stapleing 2 baby diapers together and making a long band that wraps around the middle(then is stapled or taped) is a cheap way to deal w/ leakage. my old scottie who had addison's disease wore a cumberband(sp) well before belly bands were avaialbe. he used to stand and wag his tail as i belted him up and stapled the diapers securly. dogs get used to everything is you give them a chance.

Edited November 2, 2011 by cleptogrey