Should I Be Concerned

[Guest LindsaySF]

I would recommend that you go with your gut - if his behavior is making you nervous, there's likely a reason for that.

 

Yes, there are risks in everything in life but if you are taking a risk and it doesn't feel right/good, then why are you doing it?

 

Edit to add - I would not allow my dog to "nip" at strange dogs, for the record. Disaster waiting to happen.

What I was going to say.

 

Please see: http://thelexusproject.org

 

And also: Let Me Show You Why They Give Us Those Muzzles

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

[Guest Swifthounds]

Perhaps I am not clear. When I say smaller dogs, we are not talking ankle biters here. We are talking 40 pounds and up. Ace is so damn tall 90% of the dogs look smaller to him.

 

Just so there's no misunderstanding our cautioning, that's precisely why folks have expressed concern - that type of interaction is aberrant behavior and not something to be encouraged without great risk of harm. It's not suddenly not inappropriate hunting behavior because the dogs aren't tiny. Greyhounds hunt prey larger than 40#, especially in pairs or packs. Heck, a jack can run upwards of 25#.

 

You're free to risk whatever of your own possession you will, along with our breed's reputation. If/when disaster strikes, someone will undoubtedly be here for support, but those very experienced in the breed and its behavior would be remiss if we didn't caution you when you asked for our input.

[Jackandgrey]

"Should I be Concerned" Yes you should. Not much more to say. You did ask after all.

[Guest BrianRke]

I only go to the dog park if there are no other dogs there. Its not worth the risk to my dogs or other people's dogs.

 

I have to add that I can almost see the dog park from my house, so its not like I have to drive and walk a long distance to find out if it is occupied.

[Tallgreydogmom]

You have a large greyhound living in a house with 4 small children and you are letting him nip at other dogs. He may adore the children but what will you do if he nips one of them in the face and leaves a big scar? Worse yet, one of them needs plastic surgery to fix the bite?

 

I am not making this up. It has happened before and will happen again. Please return the greyhound to the group. Do not call animal control and have him put down. This is many years of greyhounds experience speaking.

[JJNg]

Obviously no one here as actually seen your grey's behavior and body language, and it is difficult to give an accurate assessment without seeing it in person. The fact that you asked this question and stated that his behavior makes you nervous means that there probably is cause for concern.

 

Based on your description, even if it is play behavior, this type of play is risky in a dog park situation where your dog is interacting with unknown dogs. This is totally different from rough play between 2 dogs who know each other well. Even if your grey is truly playing when he "runs down a smaller dog and "nips them in the neck", this could lead to a number potential consequences.

 

1) This could cause an inadvertent injury to the smaller dog - ranging from skin tears to slipped disc in the neck, even if your dog didn't mean to hurt the smaller dog.

 

2) The smaller dog could take offense to this rude play behavior and turn around and bite or attack your dog, and we all know how easy it is for greyhounds to get skin tears.

 

3) The little dog who is the target of the rough play could be traumatized by the experience of being bullied by a bigger dog and become dog aggressive.

 

4) If he picks on a smaller dog with the type of personality who will retaliate, it could easily become a fight, and your dog could end up being the one that is traumatized as well.

 

So for the safety of your own dogs, as well as respect for the other dogs who use the dog park, I would not allow your dog to play this way. I personally prefer smaller, private playgroups where it is always the same few dogs, so they get a chance to get to know each other and establish relationships. IMO, public dog parks where your dog meets and plays with new dogs every visit are too risky.

 

Btw, I don't believe that rough play with other dogs at the dog park translates to risk to your kids at home. They are 2 totally different situations, and I find it a bit offensive that a thread asking about a specific behavior at the dog park would result in a post telling the OP to get rid of their dog.

[kudzu]

As humans, we tend to miss a lot of dog communication. It moves fast & our reaction times are too slow to catch it. Our Greys are faster still & used to playing only with other Greys. It is good & I believe best for our dogs to learn to play well with other breeds & sizes of dogs. (Within reason, of course. No bitty dogs.) That learning process is probably best done outside of dog parks. Also, basic obedience training including a strong recall is needed to improve safety. I think some Greys are good dog park dogs but it may take a while before that happens. Your dog may not yet have the experience under his collar to play safely in a park when there is a big size discrepancy between the dogs present. It's possible he may never be able to but for my dog it just took a lot of socialization prior to our first dog park visits. Even now though, if someone brought in a small, zippy, medium sized dog I might choose to leash my own dog rather than risk her play coursing the other dog.

 

Yes, I think you have reason for concern. You may find it necessary, at least for now, to call your dog out of play before he starts this behavior. It may also just be too early for him to be safe at a dog park. We have managed to do meet ups at off hours, having the park all to ourselves. When the crowds start to arrive we choose to leave & either go our separate ways or hit the walking paths with our dogs on leash. It just depends on what type of dogs are showing up. There's a Std Poodle & a Doberman who mesh well with our groups. However, last time we had a new Grey in the mix. One of my Greys almost appeared to be showing off for her. He got really revved up for some reason. Then every time the SP chased his ball my dog ran with him, exhibiting a behavior similar to your description. Even though in this case the dogs were comparable size, I decided my dog was making the SP uncomfortable. I leashed my guy. These dogs had run & played together before without this type of display. Maybe they will be able to again in the future. Play on that day though made me question things just as you are questioning your dogs behavior.

 

There is no shame in leashing your dog & leaving. In fact, if you routinely put the brakes on that type of play your dog will likely cease to do it. You do need the training foundation necessary to call your dog out of play. Do you have that yet? When doing so it sometimes feels like a catch 22. Your dog won't be a good dog park dog until he can play appropriately with all the dogs present but he needs a chance to play with them so he learns to play with safely. How the heck do you do that? In our case I actually had my first Grey socialize with a great variety of other dogs one on one & then in small groups. It was done in very controlled circumstances & with a trainer plus other staff observing. We did this at first twice a week & later once a week for a few months. After that we just got together at peoples houses or off hours at the park as mentioned. At the same time we were working on basic obedience. In essence I was trying to give her a good foundation of skills for safe interaction with the wide variety of dogs she was going to come in contact with. She was my first Grey & I didn't want to make any big mistakes.

 

If I was questioning a behavior as you seem to be I would likely pull my dog from play & work on the issue in a more carefully controlled situation. If it is something that happens with particular dogs or types of dogs I might just play it safe & never let him play with them at a dog park, perhaps not anywhere else either. Am not saying what you should or should not do. Just sharing my personal experience.

 

Good luck. Just remember that it is sometimes best to play it safe but that doesn't necessarily mean totally avoiding the park.

[Scooby172]

The regulars are pretty tolerant of his behavior since he is still learning. He does better with dogs that will give just as much as receive. He also seems to go after the "meeker" ones.

 

This sounds like he is learning to be bad. Greyhounds are very disciplined. He is learning to be aggressive.

 

I've got to say I really don't get this. Greyhounds are disciplined?? What does that mean? I don't think he's "learning" anything one way or another. He's being a greyhound, and being a dog. Submissiveness brings out increased intensity in lots of dogs -- that's why it's dangerous when a bunch of dogs pack up on a scared one. The assertive dogs can take his style, the meek ones can't. Beth is exactly the same way, hence I am careful to only let her off leash with dogs who are OK with her style -- she's got some Doberman play buddies she does fine with, for example. If there's a new dog and she turns out to be too much for him, she goes right back on leash.

 

Interesting, I never read that submissiveness brings out increased intensity in a lot of dogs, it makes sense though and I have seen this with my own dogs. Any references on this, would be interested in reading more. Thanks

Linda, Bella and Keeva

[Guest SusanP]

I would ignore the posts suggesting that you should return the dog. In my experience, nipping behavior toward dogs out in a yard or dog park has nothing to do with aggression toward children, but everything to do with over-stimulation, excitement, and possibly prey drive. I would keep your hound away from the smaller dogs or any dog he appears to be bullying. I suspect he is not going to change his behavior with repeated trips to the dog park, because there are no negative consequences--he's having fun! But the other dogs are not, and injuries or fights are a potential outcome.

 

Two of my hounds have/had rather aggressive play styles out in the yard, and both of them seemed especially drawn to pestering my most timid hound, so I'm not surprised by the submissiveness/intensity link. Generally, my more confident dogs put the rowdy ones in their place--often by biting them; Our in-your-face hounds had the most trips to the vet for staples and stitches, but they became slightly more cautious. Not sure that's the way you want your hound to learn to behave at the dog park!

[Guest jettcricket]

"Should I be Concerned" Yes you should. Not much more to say. You did ask after all.

 

I completely agree.....why take the chance?

[Guest Ummon]

Thank you, I will ignore the suggestion I get rid of the dog. He has been here almost 4 months. The guy hasn't growled at myself or children. You can stick your hand in his food bowl and hold his snout and not irritate him. Even sleep aggression is non existent. He is perfectly fine with small children.

 

For now I think I am just going to leave the muzzle on him and correct him when he does the nipping though the muzzle. I think someone mentioned this before, two idiots came within a space of 5 minutes today and decided to let their rat dogs in with the big dogs. We promptly left.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I wouldn't muzzle him at the park if other dogs are not muzzled. That leaves him totally defenseless. Also, the muzzle might prevent injury to another dog (they aren't foolproof, but will help), but the behavior is still not a good thing, and nipping through the muzzle can cause the situation to escalate. The dog being nipped at might retaliate (and he's defenseless with the muzzle on), the nipping might set off other dogs who will start picking on that dog too, etc. I would say muzzling him is putting a band-aid on the problem, instead of addressing it at its core. A solid recall helps, so you can call him back to you if he gets too rough/nippy. And of course just leaving, as you did, if really tiny dogs or clueless owners enter.

 

 

Interesting, I never read that submissiveness brings out increased intensity in a lot of dogs, it makes sense though and I have seen this with my own dogs. Any references on this, would be interested in reading more. Thanks

Linda, Bella and Keeva

Some dogs are just bullies when they play. They pick on the more submissive dogs, and don't let up unless a human intervenes. (Either just being overly playful, or sometimes they get mean about it). You also get pack mentality, where several dogs will decide to pick on one dog that appears weak, etc. Sometimes body language is enough to set this off, but "a scream" from a nervous or injured dog is infamous for sending dogs into a pack frenzy... Do a search for "pack mentality", that should bring up some good info.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Not much to add other than that you've gotten some great advice you should heed.

 

Oh, and "play" hunting is how your hounds learn the skills for hunting prey "for real.". The more a hound plays this way, the more it reinforces for the dog that that is appropriate and the further along they progress to actual succeeding. Training a hound on live game such as rabbits in a field is one thing. Conditioning them to treat other dogs as such is another - and very dangerous.

 

I was going to say your dog is practicing a takedown. Plain and simple.

[kudzu]

I wouldn't muzzle him at the park if other dogs are not muzzled. That leaves him totally defenseless. Also, the muzzle might prevent injury to another dog (they aren't foolproof, but will help), but the behavior is still not a good thing, and nipping through the muzzle can cause the situation to escalate. The dog being nipped at might retaliate (and he's defenseless with the muzzle on), the nipping might set off other dogs who will start picking on that dog too, etc. I would say muzzling him is putting a band-aid on the problem, instead of addressing it at its core. A solid recall helps, so you can call him back to you if he gets too rough/nippy. And of course just leaving, as you did, if really tiny dogs or clueless owners enter.

Please listen to Lindsay on this. I would not muzzle him unless other dogs are muzzled. It is too dangerous. And it will not stop the behavior.

 

Also please be cautious in how you correct him. Using anything aversive runs the risk of him misinterpreting why the bad thing happened. Instead of him thinking, "she yells at me every time I nip that little dog," he may instead think, "she yells at me every time that little dog is nearby so next time I'm going to have to be tougher to keep it away." That's one example out of many different possibilities. If your timing with a correction is off you also run even greater risk of miscommunicating. If he's already done the nipping & you correct him just afterwards, while he is not nipping he is unlikely to make the proper association. Basically, he will be so far away, moving so fast your chance of successfully correcting him is small.

 

Overall you are better avoiding the dog park until he has more experience with a large variety of dogs & you know he can play properly with them. The dog park is not the place for dogs to learn this. It is the place for dogs who already know how to play nice.

[Guest SusanP]

I second the suggestion that this dog may not be a good candidate for dog park play. I don't take my hounds for varying reasons. But if your dog is fine with large dogs, you may solve the problem best by simply leaving if a smaller dog comes. You could set up play dates at the dog park with larger dogs your hound plays well with, at times when other people aren't likely to bring their dogs. It's a pity, but the risks of letting a dog with your pup's behaviors play with other dogs in a dog park seem very high to me.

 

I will also say that muzzling only one dog is believed to be risky for the muzzled dog.

 

I'm glad to hear you are not considering re-homing!

[krissy]

I get that it's disappointing and frustrating to have a new dog and not be able to take him to the dog park. Believe me. I really do get it. I waited 22 years to have a dog. Last year I finally got my first dog, my wonderful grey Summit. And of course I wanted to show him off and watch him play with doggie friends. But I have had to accept that he is not a dog that can play with non-greyhounds. Not yet at least. He does have occasional reactions to rude behaviour when on leash, and off leash with dogs he knows well he gets hyped up and doesn't know how to play or interpret the other dogs. He will invite them to play by bowing, tail wagging and barking, then he'll run. But when the other dog runs after him, and particularly if they are larger than 30 lbs or so and bump him around (like normal play in non-greys) he turns around and gets really snarky. To the point that he'll almost start a fight. And this is even with dogs he knows well and interacts with regularly. So for him he can only play with greyhounds, and then everyone is muzzled. But there is something about non-greys that gets him way more excited than playing with greyhounds. He really wants to play with them, but he just doesn't know how. It's always a disaster waiting to happen. When he gets like that I put him back on leash. In time and with work I hope he can learn to play nicely with a select few dogs, but he will never be a dog park kind of guy and I've just learned to deal with that. Hopefully my next will be able to, but really it's not as big a loss as you think at first.

 

I would take everyone's advice and stay clear of the dog park for awhile as you work on his socialization and small group play. Taking classes did wonders for Summit's socialization and for our own bonding.

[DevilDog]

Thank you, I will ignore the suggestion I get rid of the dog. He has been here almost 4 months. The guy hasn't growled at myself or children. You can stick your hand in his food bowl and hold his snout and not irritate him. Even sleep aggression is non existent. He is perfectly fine with small children.

 

For now I think I am just going to leave the muzzle on him and correct him when he does the nipping though the muzzle. I think someone mentioned this before, two idiots came within a space of 5 minutes today and decided to let their rat dogs in with the big dogs. We promptly left.

 

All of us have said it, DO NOT muzzle him at the dog park!! Regardless of how 'tolerant' the regulars are or how everything has been fine 'so far', dogs are dogs and a fight can break out at any moment, with any dog. Assuming your dog can still defend himself with the muzzle on is just that.. an assumption. Do you really want to find out?? Also, if you say he can still defend himself with it on, and still 'do damage', then he CAN 'do damage' to another dog while he is exhibiting in rough play. There is no line here.

 

And, how exactly are you correcting the behavior? If it were me, I would:

 

1. Only go to the park when there are large dogs.

 

2. Leave immediately when small dogs come in (I know you said this).

 

3. Do not muzzle, and pay close attention to his behavior. When he starts to run down or try to nip another dog, I would leash him and remove him from the park. Maybe try exiting the park long enough for him to calm down, or just leave completely. Hopefully he would realize that rough play means we have to leave.

 

4. If there is no improvement, then the dog park just isn't for him. Find a fenced in ball field for him to run, or a greyhound play date (where ALL the dogs would be muzzled).

[Hubcitypam]

For now I think I am just going to leave the muzzle on him and correct him when he does the nipping though the muzzle. I think someone mentioned this before, two idiots came within a space of 5 minutes today and decided to let their rat dogs in with the big dogs. We promptly left.

Don't muzzle unless all dogs are muzzled. It's been said a zillion times. If a throwdown happens your dog is a sitting duck. Poodle was packed on at the dog park (big side 30 and up and he was 28 so we were fudging by 2 pounds) by a group of medium dogs. It was a horrific experience and he bit me three times in fear when I finally fell on him to protect him. I can't imagine the horror (especially in his mind) if he had been muzzled and unable to fight back.

 

If your dog can't be at a dog park unmuzzled then maybe dog parks are not a good place to be.

 

Another thought is that taking your muzzled grey to a dog park where the others aren't reinforces the myth that they are agressive dogs. Not exactly a good thing for greyhound adoption as a whole. Someone's friends might be considering a greyhound and be told that the greyhound at the dog park *had* to be muzzled and tried to get little dogs. Those of us that have greys are always on display ambassadors for the breed and for adoption. Food for thought.

[Guest Ummon]

I actually disagree with the myth if he is muzzled he is "dangerous". Now I can't know what people are saying behind my back. But for the most part, almost all of the dog owners ask me about it. After I explain he is a grey that is newly off the track and doesn't know the rules yet they are quite tolerant, if not appreciative of my precaution. I don't think it does anything to discourage the likelihood of someone wanting to adopt the breed. Particularly when my 4 children (all under the age of 11) come to the park and how he treats other humans who come.

 

Working on the nipping thing. Yes could he get hurt by a dog who takes offence at his behavior. Absolutely. However from what I have observed so far he backs off quickly and learns fast. From the behavior of the other dogs I don't think the muzzle is cause for concern for now.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Ummon

[krissy]

I actually disagree with the myth if he is muzzled he is "dangerous". Now I can't know what people are saying behind my back. But for the most part, almost all of the dog owners ask me about it. After I explain he is a grey that is newly off the track and doesn't know the rules yet they are quite tolerant, if not appreciative of my precaution. I don't think it does anything to discourage the likelihood of someone wanting to adopt the breed. Particularly when my 4 children (all under the age of 11) come to the park and how he treats other humans who come.

 

A lot of people don't necessarily ask. I've had lots of people say "I always see pictures of greyhounds with muzzles on because they're so aggressive, but yours seems really sweet". Not just once but over and over. Of course once I explain they say "ohhhh!", the problem is it's the people who DON'T ask you about the muzzle that are going to go around talking about the aggressive greyhound at the dog park.

 

I have photos of Summit on my facebook. Some of them were taken at greyhound runs so all the dogs are wearing muzzles, and I have comments from people commenting on the muzzles and why did we "adopt an aggressive dog"? Not everyone is going to think that of course. Personally I'm less concerned with what others think compared to the safety of my dog. I would never muzzle him if other dogs aren't muzzled. Including other greyhounds. If someone forgets a muzzle at a greyhound run someone usually has a spare, but if not I'd rather we turn all the hounds loose without muzzles (well, we'd rather the person went home and got their muzzle, but hypothetically speaking...). It is just not safe. Please don't do it. If you're going to keep taking him to the dog park that is your decision. You've seen his behaviour and we haven't. If you're comfortable with it then that is fine. But don't muzzle him. If you feel like you need to muzzle him then you obviously aren't comfortable with his behaviour, in which case he needs some work before he gets turned loose with multiple dogs. Have a play date with one other dog that your boy plays fairly well with.

[OwnedBySummer]

No muzzling of a single grey in a dog park when the other dogs aren't muzzled. Simple. Period.

[Jackandgrey]

I guess I wonder why you asked the question since you seem not at all interested in heeding the responses from very experienced greyhound people. It is always disheartening when inexperienced people decide they know better.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I guess I wonder why you asked the question since you seem not at all interested in heeding the responses from very experienced greyhound people. It is always disheartening when inexperienced people decide they know better.

 

Before you see a greyhound kill something, you have no idea how efficient, quick and unstoppable it is. Unfortunately another pet will be her first experience, instead of rabbits and birds most of us see. She thinks she is in control, obviously. Unfortunately, she will learn, at the cost of maybe two dogs lives. She should donate to the Lexus project weekly.

[greytlucy]

4 kids under 11 at the dog park? Our city has banned all children under 12 from dog parks for good reason after way too many incidents.

 

OP, please consider the advice you are getting here.

[TheFullHouse]

Have you ever witnessed a pack attack? I have and it's not pretty. One scream out of one dog and the others will start to attack not only the dog that screamed but they will turn on each other also. With your dog muzzled he can't protect himself.