Grain Free

[jshell]

I’ve been experimenting with some more ‘premium’ foods for Betty Joan after a rough summer apparently brought on by severe inflammation in her gastrointestinal system and severe lack of albumin proteins. We’re off the prescription diet that saw us through the rough patch. There’s a nice boutique and dog wash nearby with a good selection of premium foods and we’re currently checking out a couple. Both foods being evaluated are touted as “grain free”.

 

This “grain free” concept is new to me. Any strong reasons to prefer it? My main reason for picking these two foods is that they both have good reviews on Dog Food Advisor and their ingredients are MUCH better than what I was feeding Betty before all of this happened (Beneful).

 

Thanks.

[TheFullHouse]

I have one I feed grain free food because she has pretty bad allergies and grain free has helped her quite a bit. The rest of my hounds get regular food, a combination of Kirkland's lamb and rice and chicken and rice. They seem to do well with two proteins.

[Guest TBSFlame]

I have changed over to Costco grain free because I went grain free and I feel so much better. I had Star on TOTW and felt it was too costly to put all 5 of mine on grain free but with Costco it is about what I was paying for the food I was using. What I have found in their poo is more solid than ever. They all like it and are doing fine.

[DaisyDoodle]

Daisy eats Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Venison which is grain free. My only complaint is that her poops are much too plentiful. It makes me think she's not absorbing the nutrients very well, but I don't know if that is true, or if that is just the nature of grain free food.

 

I'm thinking of doing Dr Dodd's saliva test for food allergies then possibly trying other foods.

[Guest Audeamus]

I wobble between feeding Gir grain free and not. The biggest factor is not the grain free ness of it but rather the inclusion of fish. If something has fish in it Gir is much more pink, he licks himself more and his skin goes pink. Some of the grain free works for the short term but then inevitably he gets pink and itchy again, check the ingredients then look about 2/3's of the way down: Fish.

Regarding how much he poops, he poops about the same amount on the grain free or grained food I feed him. It's not very much (well to me) given that he's an 85 pound mix.

[Guest snakes]

I use grain free because they tend to have higher protein content which is good for our situation. They do tend to be more expensive though!

We use TOTW because it seemed to agree with my pups more. Of course now they aren't eating it this past week or so, so we are back to the grain containing Purina One Complete since they wouldn't eat Iams naturals.

 

Long story short, find a food that your dogs do well on both eating and pooping wise and that your budget can afford and I am sure you will be fine. I personally don't think grain free is necessary unless the hound can't tolerate grains.

[sobesmom]

I tend to stay away from grains in dogfood, because dogs aren't herbivores. They don't need grains, and given the choice wouldn't go eat corn. Dead animal is what their bodies are built to eat. Many dogs do just fine with kibble that contains grains, I've just found that it goes in one end and out the other. It's a filler.

 

My current foster is eating what I consider a "junk" food - more grains than meat by far - but, according to sources, he doesn't do well on "better" foods. He's healthy, and fine.

 

Given the choice, I feed as little grain as possible.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I tend to stay away from grains in dogfood, because dogs aren't herbivores. They don't need grains, and given the choice wouldn't go eat corn. Dead animal is what their bodies are built to eat. Many dogs do just fine with kibble that contains grains, I've just found that it goes in one end and out the other. It's a filler.

 

My current foster is eating what I consider a "junk" food - more grains than meat by far - but, according to sources, he doesn't do well on "better" foods. He's healthy, and fine.

 

Given the choice, I feed as little grain as possible.

 

Though the same can be said for other (non grain) carbs, which can be less allergenic, but not always.

[MaryJane]

Grain-free is just the current fad.

 

Feeding a mixed diet of protein, carbohydrates, fruits, and veggies, just like in people, will probably produce the best results over time. Off course this assumes that there are no allergies to a specific type of food.

 

Many people bring out the argument that dogs are not set up to eat certain types of foods yet, are they set up to eat processed food with meat/fish that is likely not fit for human consumption. I'm not against processed food - it's usually an easy way to get all the nutrients a dog requires but, just like processed food for people - is it the best choice to be healthy?

[Guest Adrianne]

Chevy and Ollie get TOTW and have been for many months now. In the beginning, I tried it for Chevy's allergies. It didn't make much of a difference there, but they love it so much. Even after all these months, they greet each bowl with gusto and excitement.....like they're getting a treat. Ollie dances around the kitchen when she sees me get her little scoop of food.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Grain-free is just the current fad.

 

True, but that doesn't mean there aren't very valid health reasons both why carnivores should not be fed grains and why human should lessen the amount of grains consumed. All complex carbs can lead to obesity, but grains also negatively impact proper metabolism and insulin regulation. Bad for people, worse for dogs - even absent the common allergy.

Feeding a mixed diet of protein, carbohydrates, fruits, and veggies, just like in people, will probably produce the best results over time. Off course this assumes that there are no allergies to a specific type of food.

 

Except if you're feeding a carnivore like a a dog. Then you're just feeding carbs and veggies for sport.

 

 

Many people bring out the argument that dogs are not set up to eat certain types of foods yet, are they set up to eat processed food with meat/fish that is likely not fit for human consumption. I'm not against processed food - it's usually an easy way to get all the nutrients a dog requires but, just like processed food for people - is it the best choice to be healthy?

 

What could be easier than feeding a dog as they were designed to eat? It's "simplifying" with kibble that adds the worry and wonder in the process.

[jshell]

Somewhat related to this discussion, then, is the question of the Meats to Veggies ratio. Which is brought to mind as we're now evaluating Acana's grain free kibble, which claims to be 60% meats (well "premium animal ingredients"), 40% fruits and veggies, and 0% grains.

 

The same company also makes Orijen, which is 80% meats to 20% fruits and veggies (or 75% to 25% in their 'senior' dog food). Orijen brands itself as "nourish as nature intended". Should I be looking at this? Betty's had protein problems in the past, but I understand that unless the dog is very active they don't need quite so much meat/protein.

 

I mainly thought of this after reading through some of the comments about vegetables, and I find it (mildly) interesting that the Acana and Orijen put these percentages right on the bag.

 

The food is a bit expensive, but three weeks of dog food still seems to be less than what I can blow over 1 or 2 Sundays at a sports bar during NFL season. My main concern is avoiding the gastrointestinal / low protein issues that Betty has had in the past. I'm still exploring, trying to find the best option (also might be looking at limited ingredient foods too).

[Remolacha]

My dogs are raw fed, so obviously, grains aren't an issue . However, I do give the girls TOTW for breakfast, for my convenience. Fletcher, my IBD dog, doesn't tolerate kibble. It really does depend on the dog. Some actually seem to do better on "junk" food, that is, kibble with a lot of grain/filler. I think the non-grain diet is more healthy and natural, in general, but I feed my dogs what works best for them.

 

BTW, I have not been successful in getting my cats to eat raw (and cats are obligate carnivores ) but they eat Orijen dry. I like that the ingredients are locally sourced.

[Guest tysmom]

I've been feeding TOTW to both for years with no issue. In the beginning they started on the fish flavor because they both liked fish so much. No itching or anything extra noted here.

I switched varieties and went to the Bison because it had more protein which for our situation was better.

I did not choose it specifically because it was grain free because we didn't have ant allergies or issues. I chose it simply because I liked what I read about it.

deb

[Feisty49]

Again, a good and interesting topic and conversation.

 

If we go back far enough, people were also carnivores but that doesn't mean all I want to eat is protein. It's not healthy (ask anyone who has problems with high-protein, low-carb diets).

 

I have issues with my intestinal tract (lymphocytic colitis) and fiber is on my diet big time, whether it be natural or something like Citrucel. Since fiber is what makes me work pretty well most of the time -- and my ancestors were once strictly carnivores -- I personally think the same principle can be applied to dogs.

 

Carbohydrates do not lead to obesity. Overeating leads to obesity. And complex carbs are the better carbohydrates because they break down more slowly in our bodies, thus keeping sugar levels more even than other types of carbs and helping to forestall hunger.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Somewhat related to this discussion, then, is the question of the Meats to Veggies ratio. Which is brought to mind as we're now evaluating Acana's grain free kibble, which claims to be 60% meats (well "premium animal ingredients"), 40% fruits and veggies, and 0% grains.

 

The same company also makes Orijen, which is 80% meats to 20% fruits and veggies (or 75% to 25% in their 'senior' dog food). Orijen brands itself as "nourish as nature intended". Should I be looking at this? Betty's had protein problems in the past, but I understand that unless the dog is very active they don't need quite so much meat/protein.

 

I mainly thought of this after reading through some of the comments about vegetables, and I find it (mildly) interesting that the Acana and Orijen put these percentages right on the bag.

 

The food is a bit expensive, but three weeks of dog food still seems to be less than what I can blow over 1 or 2 Sundays at a sports bar during NFL season. My main concern is avoiding the gastrointestinal / low protein issues that Betty has had in the past. I'm still exploring, trying to find the best option (also might be looking at limited ingredient foods too).

 

The percentage of meat is a different issue than the percentage if protein. Protein is found in both meats and other items. The percentage of meat just gives you a better idea of the quality of the protein (ie what percentage is from meat vs. Vegetation). People make the mistake of conflating the two issues and assuming that higher protein in a food equals more meat and vice versa, but there are higher protein foods where the increased protein is actually merely a result of differed carbs being substituted. Sometimes, you're not paying more for meat sourced proteins but vegetation sourced.

 

Meat is 50-60% water so even feeding a raw diet if meat, organ and some bone, the protein percentage averages around what is found in most "better" kibbles.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Again, a good and interesting topic and conversation.

 

If we go back far enough, people were also carnivores but that doesn't mean all I want to eat is protein. It's not healthy (ask anyone who has problems with high-protein, low-carb diets).

 

That would have to be back to the time if the big bang or so. Humans, their various ancestors, and they primate ancestors were always omnivores and had the physiology if such. That they may have eaten more meat than we do doesn't mean they were carnivores anymore than a panda eating bamboo is a vegetarian and not a carnivore. Just about everything living can be fed an unnatural diet and survive.

 

Carbohydrates do not lead to obesity. Overeating leads to obesity. And complex carbs are the better carbohydrates because they break down more slowly in our bodies, thus keeping sugar levels more even than other types of carbs and helping to forestall hunger.

 

Carbohydrates are necessary for proper brain and muscle function, yes, but they don't have to come from starch or typical "complex carb" sources - otherwise all those folks on low carb diets would be dead. Actually, if you're female, the body is better suited to higher fat and lower carbs overall.

[Batmom]

I feed what they do well on.

 

I haven't had particularly good results from the commercial grain-free and limited ingredient foods over time. Not worth the $$ or the hype in most cases. YMMV.