What Is The Connection

[XTRAWLD]

Kasey has been trying to vomit or something since 5:30 this morning. He's been constantly licking and swallowing. (I know I get a build up of saliva before I hurl so, I figure that's what he's doing). He's been doing this for 1.5 hours now. There is nothing stuck in his throat. He's not the vomiter in the house, Ryder is. For Kasey to throw up takes a lot, but he did this 2 weekends ago....and we are already above his quota. But for both of them to want to throw up in the early morning hours I can't help but connect this to something going on with the raw food. Lets not visit the "feed later" thing, I've beat that to death with Ryder. Can we try to think about:

 

Is there too much fat in their meals?

Are the chunks of food too big?

Is the food bad? (How long can different items keep in the fridge before spoiling?)

Could it be served/fed to them better - ie should it be room temperature instead of out of the fridge or should I wash/rinse the meat before feeding?

 

There might be a minute detail that I am not doing that could make the difference.

 

I'm hesitant about feeding Kasey breakfast just to have it all over the house in a few minutes.

[Batmom]

Could be anything, but I would certainly stop feeding what you've been feeding and look for something else.

[XTRAWLD]

Indigestion? Acid reflux for him too?

 

Video

 

He will do that for about a minute, and then nothing for like 5 minutes, and then salivate again and swallow. He has been playing with toys, gone pee and poo, walks fine and I can't see that his ribcage is enlarged, so, I don't think it's bloat.....but this is unusual and how do I help him?

 

We gave him pepto at 615am he had breakfast at 7am, and Gas-x at 930am just in case. He's still doing the same thing since 530am.....Lots of lip licking, saliva and swallowing.....it's almost like something is stuck in his throat, but nothing is in there, and nothing is stuck in his teeth....

Edited April 22, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[JAJ2010]

He might just have a belly upset. Sunshine just had a 24 hour bug. I've never seen a dog throw up like that! It was all water and projetiled while she was laying on the couch. She didn't even have time to get up and go somewhere.

 

Maybe feed some bland stuff for a day or two, once he feels better. If he's still doing this tomorrow I could go off to the vet.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Is there too much fat in their meals?

 

There could be, though usually too much fat manifests as the Big D. What are you currently feeding? If you're not more than a month into raw feeding and are feeding more than two different meat sources, you may have too much variety too soon.

 

Are the chunks of food too big?

 

If anything, chunks of food could be too small. Meal pieces should normally be the size of a dog's head. It's a bit trickier if you feed 2x/day.

 

Is the food bad? (How long can different items keep in the fridge before spoiling?)

 

Meat can sit in a fridge (or, heck, on a counter) for a fairly long time before becoming an issue for a dog - days past where you would cook it.

 

Could it be served/fed to them better - ie should it be room temperature instead of out of the fridge or should I wash/rinse the meat before feeding?

 

Some dogs definitely prefer their meals room temperature. Some dogs will routinely regurgitate cold meals, but will not have the same issue with room temperature foods. Other dogs eat cold or even partially frozen meals without issue.

 

I'm hesitant about feeding Kasey breakfast just to have it all over the house in a few minutes.

 

If you suspect tummy upset, I would skip the meal.

[greyhead]

Our raw food is kept frozen and fed within two days of thawing. Doggfather recommended zapping for 30 seconds in the microwave to kill any surface beasties without cooking or destroying the meat's beneficial enzymes.

 

ETA: Where are you getting your raw food? There was a long, scary piece in the Seattle Times a couple days ago about the high percentage of grocery store meats that tested as contaminated, even from the best stores.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2014816296_chicken20m.html?prmid=obinsource (about chicken in Seattle area)

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2014783983_apusmedtaintedmeat.html (about supermarket meat everywhere)

Edited April 22, 2011 by greyhead

[MaryJane]

If the dog has been trying to vomit and can't then he probably needs to be seen by the vet sooner rather than later especially with the Easter weekend. Even though you cannot see anything in his throat, there could still be something there. Might need to get X-rays just to be sure. Were you giving bones by any chance, if so ... there could be some nasty complications if he is trying to vomit up a bone.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Assuming the meat is boneless, it would be better to get a pan hot and pan sear it rather than microwave.

[XTRAWLD]

The last time he had bone was Tuesday (that was a turkey drum) - he only started doing this licking thing morning. I figure any fragment of bone would be gone by now. I gave him a chewable Vitamin C tablet yesterday morning - that has got to be dissolved by now. He's had a turkey drum last week on Tuesday also - no issues. Could it be congestion? He is certainly acting like something is stuck. We had to go out for family visiting today and when we came back there has been no change. I found no mess either. If anything I don't notice the licking and swallowing as much, it's now more active, coughing to get something up and out. Twice on our walk he stopped to do this, and also when we came home he was excited to see us. I just gave him a 1/4 cup of beef broth. He is acting fine, walk, pee, playing, nothing out of the ordinary but for this coughing. He has never touched ANYTHING in the house, so I don't think he would have picked up something and tried to eat it. He's always been really good that way. He's currently sleeping, so it's not like he's licking/swallowing/coughing constantly.

 

I have been feeding raw since April 1. We are currently feeding pork belly and pork heart and beef tripe, (I feed all three in a meal, never just one item in a meal), the heart was first introduced on April 15, (up to that point I was feeding only belly and tripe) and then I was feeding heart every other day. He's been eating heart for 2 days straight now, so I think I'll omit that for him and go back to the pork belly and tripe only. I also think I will reduce his daily consumption. He's never been a big eater, so it might just be too much food in general for him.

 

He's picky so I cut the pork pieces in half, otherwise he actually will refuse to eat it. (Some dog he is).

 

I do the frozen and thaw out before they need to eat it - so based on comments I don't think the food itself is bad. It's fresh from a local farm and I put it in bags and freeze it the second I get it home (it's actually really really cold when we are bagging it - as my husband can attest to with his frozen hands).

 

Oddly, it's like he has a cold.....like he's stuffy and congested - is that possible and it's not related to food at all? If this keeps up, for sure we will visit the vet, sucks it has to be on a long weekend, but if I am concerned enough, have no fear I WILL take him. I'm just thinking it's a 24 hour thing too....at least I hope so.

 

Ryder is fine. If it's not one dog, it's the friggin' other....

[XTRAWLD]

OMG how stupid am I.

 

He did this once before, years ago, and I thought his throat was closing up because of allergies. Gave him his meds....away it went. He has been doing so well on raw, I have nearly forgotten that he occasionally still needs prednisone.

 

This chin is "puffy" and he's scratching - clearly that is a sign to us to give him his prednisone.

 

Just administered it now. Lets hope for improvement. OMG lets hope.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Sometimes it's easy to miss what didn't happen when you're looking for what did. Looking forward to a positive update.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Hope it works for you!

 

The only connection I've had between raw and upset stomachs is that raw has cured dogs I've had that couldn't eat anything else

[XTRAWLD]

Usually takes a half hour to work. It's now been 2 hours after giving him his pills and he's sleeping quietly after eating his dinner (which I cut back to half just in case he really does have indigestion). I can't believe how dumb I feel. Will be certain it was the throat closing up on him when he gets up for our nightly walk and he is not hacking. That hasn't happened in a long time. Hubby and I were just thinking what happens when you are congested, your sinuses swell and then I thought, HIS THROAT IS SWELLING. Lesson learned.....

[Guest Swifthounds]

How's he doing this morning?

[XTRAWLD]

He's fine! He still had a case of hacking for our evening walk but this morning it's gone. It takes a while obviously for all the swelling to go down. I'm so mad at my stupidity and forgetfulness and not being able to put 2 and 2 together sooner. He had to suffer for 12 hours.....cause I was dumb....

 

He did have a lot of trouble trying to pee at 9pm. He usually has a bit of difficulty the day he gets pred, but yesterday was sorta bad. He walked really really slow, and he tried to pee umpteen times. He also looked a bit faint at times, but he held up ok. I think the pepto and gas-x might have done a number on his system, plus he had been "short of breath" all day which I'm sure didn't help.

 

We won't be walking him with a collar to choke him for the next couple days, and only have him on a harness so his throat can recover. He is older and walks really well on leash, so he should be fine in a couple days.

 

I'm happy that it isn't a raw connection, since what is happening with Ryder and his bile is frustrating enough.

[greyhead]

He's fine! He still had a case of hacking for our evening walk but this morning it's gone. It takes a while obviously for all the swelling to go down. I'm so mad at my stupidity and forgetfulness and not being able to put 2 and 2 together sooner. He had to suffer for 12 hours.....cause I was dumb....

 

He did have a lot of trouble trying to pee at 9pm. He usually has a bit of difficulty the day he gets pred, but yesterday was sorta bad. He walked really really slow, and he tried to pee umpteen times. He also looked a bit faint at times, but he held up ok. I think the pepto and gas-x might have done a number on his system, plus he had been "short of breath" all day which I'm sure didn't help.

 

We won't be walking him with a collar to choke him for the next couple days, and only have him on a harness so his throat can recover. He is older and walks really well on leash, so he should be fine in a couple days.

 

I'm happy that it isn't a raw connection, since what is happening with Ryder and his bile is frustrating enough.

At the risk of being a bother, I'm confused. Why would pred lead him to having trouble peeing? Doesn't pred generally make them pee more, and quite freely? Walking really slowly and looking faint sound more serious than allergy to me. I guess all that is suggesting urinary trouble and maybe infection to me. And adding shortness of breath to those things makes me kind of concerned. Neither Pepto nor Gas-X should have hurt him in any way.

 

ETA: Looking back at all the symptoms he's had for 24+ hours, I wonder about even worse things, like organ difficulty. Maybe I'm a worry-wart, but I'd be running this past my vet as soon as I could. Or maybe at least shift this over to H&M to get other people's take on it.

Edited April 23, 2011 by greyhead

[Batmom]

Why would pred lead him to having trouble peeing? Doesn't pred generally make them pee more, and quite freely? Walking really slowly and looking faint sound more serious than allergy to me. I guess all that is suggesting urinary trouble and maybe infection to me. And adding shortness of breath to those things makes me kind of concerned. Neither Pepto nor Gas-X should have hurt him in any way.

 

ETA: Looking back at all the symptoms he's had for 24+ hours, I wonder about even worse things, like organ difficulty. Maybe I'm a worry-wart, but I'd be running this past my vet as soon as I could. Or maybe at least shift this over to H&M to get other people's take on it.

 

Ditto that.

[JohnF]

Glad to hear you made progress with it.

I wonder though if it was Kennel Cough because they'll retch heavily with that?

[MaryJane]

Why would pred lead him to having trouble peeing? Doesn't pred generally make them pee more, and quite freely? Walking really slowly and looking faint sound more serious than allergy to me. I guess all that is suggesting urinary trouble and maybe infection to me. And adding shortness of breath to those things makes me kind of concerned. Neither Pepto nor Gas-X should have hurt him in any way.

 

ETA: Looking back at all the symptoms he's had for 24+ hours, I wonder about even worse things, like organ difficulty. Maybe I'm a worry-wart, but I'd be running this past my vet as soon as I could. Or maybe at least shift this over to H&M to get other people's take on it.

 

Ditto that.

 

 

I agree with the above. At this point, the "self-diagnosing" should stop and the dog should head to the vet.

[Guest iconsmum]

He's fine! He still had a case of hacking for our evening walk but this morning it's gone. It takes a while obviously for all the swelling to go down. I'm so mad at my stupidity and forgetfulness and not being able to put 2 and 2 together sooner. He had to suffer for 12 hours.....cause I was dumb....

 

He did have a lot of trouble trying to pee at 9pm. He usually has a bit of difficulty the day he gets pred, but yesterday was sorta bad. He walked really really slow, and he tried to pee umpteen times. He also looked a bit faint at times, but he held up ok. I think the pepto and gas-x might have done a number on his system, plus he had been "short of breath" all day which I'm sure didn't help.

 

We won't be walking him with a collar to choke him for the next couple days, and only have him on a harness so his throat can recover. He is older and walks really well on leash, so he should be fine in a couple days.

 

I'm happy that it isn't a raw connection, since what is happening with Ryder and his bile is frustrating enough.

 

 

 

I'm really sorry, but none of that adds up for me at all...if that was my dog he would sooo have been at the vet by now, and I'm not a worrier particularly - too much diagnosing going on here for my comfort zone.

[XTRAWLD]

Actually, Kasey has been seen by multiple vets over the course of the years to first determine what was wrong with him and then to control his allergies, and we are responsible parents. He has the OPPOSITE side effects of what is commonly found using prednisone, and this has been documented for years by several vets, and documented by enormous credit card bills to boot. I have mentioned this on the forum before so thank you for jumping on me for that before knowing his entire six year medical history and with what we've been through with him.

 

I was asking for experience in relation to raw, which is something I am completely unfamiliar with. We have been to hell and back with this dog and he has taught us so much - and I would never jeopardize his health if I really thought something was really desperately wrong with him. We do not jump to the vet every time he stubs his toe and I'm willing to bet there are plenty of other people here that would do the same. He's 8 years old, with a weakened immune system and I don't expect him to be a perfect animal 100% of the time. Everyone has their bad days - and yesterday was his.

[Guest greyhound9797]

Actually, Kasey has been seen by multiple vets over the course of the years to first determine what was wrong with him and then to control his allergies, and we are responsible parents. He has the OPPOSITE side effects of what is commonly found using prednisone, and this has been documented for years by several vets, and documented by enormous credit card bills to boot. I have mentioned this on the forum before so thank you for jumping on me for that before knowing his entire six year medical history and with what we've been through with him.

 

I was asking for experience in relation to raw, which is something I am completely unfamiliar with. We have been to hell and back with this dog and he has taught us so much - and I would never jeopardize his health if I really thought something was really desperately wrong with him. We do not jump to the vet every time he stubs his toe and I'm willing to bet there are plenty of other people here that would do the same. He's 8 years old, with a weakened immune system and I don't expect him to be a perfect animal 100% of the time. Everyone has their bad days - and yesterday was his.

I don't think anyone meant to offend you. We're all different - some worry more than others, some take their pets to the vet sooner than others, etc. It's rare for dogs to react to pred the way Kasey does so I'm sure those who responded about rushing him to the vet and questioning his reaction to the med were just concerned and wanted to confirm things.

 

I know you're concerned about doing raw "the right way" but really, you can't screw it up so badly that it screws up your dog. (I promise) Just keep doing what you're doing; it sounds like they're getting along fine so far.

 

Sandra in FL

[XTRAWLD]

I'm incredibly frustrated with the raw food issue, and both of their problems just seem to be heightened by the fact that we've switched. I'm unsure in my path with raw food which makes me really seem helpless in the whole situation. I was really struggling that morning with what to do with him, and what his symptoms were. It didn't help that it was Good Friday and all.

 

I have to figure out the connection these guys are having, well at the moment that Kasey is having. I don't want to go back to kibble, but I will if problems like this persist. A vet in no way will try to help me grapple this, since they are all trained to push kibble by the manufacturers and are not educated in raw feeding.

 

Our experience with vets is all over the map, but most of them take you for a ride or find nothing wrong, or treat the wrong symptoms/problems, lots of action or inaction. I would take him to the vet if it was a very big deal, but a lot of vets we encountered are just in it for the money. They put your heart in one hand and your wallet in the other and just squeeze.

 

I understand everyone is very caring, and of course reading text and hearing someone speak are quite different and can be taken in many different contexts. I just don't want to hear - take him to the vet - at every drop of the hat is all. Or the fact that I haven't taken him to the vet makes me look like I don't care about his well being.

 

This forum has a lot of culminated experience. By me posting his symptoms I was hoping someone may have been through this before so I can fix the poor guy. Clearly, I'm frustrated.

 

Edited April 24, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[Batmom]

What's your purpose in feeding raw? If it's causing problems, I wouldn't do it.

[Guest Swifthounds]

It's hard when you're frustrated and you feel like your being criticized, especially where what you feel you're being faulted for hasn't worked before.

 

One thing that is readily apparent is that you do care about the well being of you hounds.