Ryder Vomiting And Cerenia

[XTRAWLD]

So as some as you know, Ryder has had morning vomiting issues for what seems like forever. We've had him nearly a year and as far back as I can remember he's been throwing up bile in the early morning hours. I have been trying to control it with food, and can no longer find a trend as to how to prevent the bile, nor can I figure out the good days he's had vs. the bad.

 

We went to the vet today. The vet was understanding about our food switch from kibble to raw 20 days ago. He did a full check up of Ryder - his temperature was up only by half a degree. Based on talking with the vet, Ryder has been prescribed Cerenia to see if it helps. He also took some blood and it will be analyzed with results expected tomorrow. He's banking on "smoldering" pancreatitis but of course we all hope not. One step at a time here of course. I could go on and on about what was discussed but I won't. I just want Ryder to stop throwing up and feeling crappy. The Cerenia we have is 60 mg for 4 days. We gave him his first dose today and we'll see what happens.

 

I will have to research more about Cerenia but would appreciate comments regarding the use of this drug. In addition, the same can be said for "smoldering" pancreas version.

 

Thanks everyone.

Edited April 20, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[PrairieProf]

I don't have any experience with Cerenia for ongoing use, but Beth recently turned out to have low-grade pancreatic inflammation -- just under the threshold for acute pancreatitis -- so possibly akin to "smoldering" pancreatitis though we didn't use that word. But if that's what the vet thinks it is, I'm not following the line of treatment here. If there is a pancreatic issue, why would you just wait for it to really flare to the acute stage rather than getting it under control now? Cerenia is an anti-nausea drug but the nausea is a symptom of whatever's going on, not a cause.

 

Has Rocket had a Spec cPL or TLI test done, both of which check what's going on pancreatically, instead of just guessing? (Oh wait, I just read you had bloodwork -- hope it included one or both of those!)

 

Is he on Flagyl? Because it relieves inflammation throughout the digestive tract, this is what Beth was put on (full dose for a whole month, now we're tapering down).

 

Have you talked about a low-fat diet? If something else is going on the raw might help, but if it's pancreatitis you're playing with fire, as it's hard to control the amount of fat the dog is getting and it's almost certainly more than is recommended for pancreatitis (typically under 10%). My vet said low fat and low-moderate protein, too. What were the protein/fat percentages in the various kibbles you were using?

Edited April 21, 2011 by PrairieProf

[Batmom]

Not sure whether to hope the bloodwork tells you something or not, but will keep your pupper in my thoughts.

 

Reason I suggested changing food in the other thread: My angel Batman horked up yellow bile nearly every morning and many afternoons for months. He felt just fine when he wasn't actually horking -- never missed a meal, never seemed uncomfortable after eating, never threw up his food. Did tests up the wazoo (all negative for anything ), tried late-night snacks, eliminated all treats/add-ins just in case, changed protein source of his kibble, etc. etc. etc., no impact.

 

Then one day, for unrelated reasons, I changed to a totally different brand of food. 24 hrs after being on the new food 100%, the yellow slime stopped, never to return. It was like turning off a tap -- that sudden and that complete.

 

Not sure if I'd have as much luck with that these days -- so many food formulations are similar, even across brands. But that is all it took for us.

[macoduck]

During severe gastro upset our dogs have been given the one time injection of Cerenia with good results. Because it wasn't a long-term problem we didn't need to use the pills.

 

This might be helpful:

Dr Dodds at Hemopet http://www.hemopet.org/

"will be introducing NutriScan, novel, patented canine food sensitivity and food intolerance diagnostic testing. This assay system utilizes an important new approach in nutrition - that salivary diagnostics can more accurately identify the foods to be avoided rather than focus on those less like to be reactive."

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

I'm 99% sure Cerenia is not approved for use for more than a few days (less than a week) at a time. My dogs use it for car sickness and I've seen it used during chemo a lot.

 

My cocker spaniel did the same vomiting. We put him on Iams F/P and that stopped it completely. Any other protein and he pukes at least 3x a week. Any other brand and he pukes at least once a week.

 

If the bloodwork all looks OK, you might want to see an internal medicine specialist. If the food switch didn't fix the problem our next step was going to be a GI scope. Persistent vomiting can be a sign of IBD from what I understand.

[XTRAWLD]

Thanks Everyone. Yes it is not to be used for longer than 5 days, we are using it for 4, so we have 3 left. I don't think he wants to treat what is going on until he knows what is going on. Does that make sense? He doesn't want to give an inflammatory med if he doesn't know for sure that's the problem which is why I think he gave us Cerenia. He just wants his body to slow down a little bit and if he is inflamed to give him a bit of a chance to recoup. Perhaps by keeping him "still" his body can relax a bit.

 

Ryder was very quiet last night. Not restless at all. Usually in the middle of the night he would get up multiple times to find a better sleeping position regardless of if he would throw up or not. The vet did talk about diet. He's not against raw feeding, however he did suggest that we consider not feeding it exclusively. Giving him a gasto type kibble may be enough for him to slow his digestion down. It might also be enough get rid of the bile since it could be digested easier and slower.....We never really considered that giving him a nice piece of protein (pork) was really hard work for him to digest - we were actually thinking the opposite, but perhaps he is irritated by how hard he has to work to digest the raw. I forgot to mention to him about his mucousy stool when he was on Kirkland....I'll have to find that thread and the date.....maybe we can piece together something.

 

Batmom - Regarding the feeding type of food change with kibble - we've been there, done that (and done over and over again with Kasey considering he has allergies). I actually think he was probably better on crappy Iams than on any other premium kibble he was on.

 

Regarding fat - the pork belly trim I'm feeding has a lot of fat - perhaps I'll cut it a lot of it off to see how much of a difference that makes. Again - didn't realize fat could be a cause. See what can be learned on this forum - great stuff! Thank you all!

 

Results expected today.....keep the comments coming.

 

I wanted to add - we have met all three vets now at the new practice we are at. The vet today was a man - Ryder doesn't like men, but he was a good boy anyway. Great fact - he worked with a Greyhound Rescue Group during his schooling - I'd like to prompt him for more info about that sometime, but I'm so happy to hear he is familiar with the breed.

Edited April 21, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[XTRAWLD]

Got the call. He couldn't be more perfect across the board. He did the Spec cPL & TLI tests and his counts are perfect. So pancreatitis is ruled out. No need to get any inflammatory drugs as there are no signals he's in need of them. I asked if I can reduce the dosage of his Cerenia in half cause he's a friggin zombie LOL and he agreed (he's going to obedience class tonight so having a sedative might not be the best thing either).

 

His reasoning to give the Cerenia was indeed to get the dog's body to relax and to break the cycle of vomiting. Based on the result, he did just that. He gave me his cell phone number to call in case there is something bad going on with Ryder over the long weekend. I thought that was super.

 

He did think that going to a gastro-diet or in combination with raw would inevitably be the best for Ryder, because he may just have a sensitive stomach and that's that.

 

PHEW SIGH OF RELIEF!

[Guest JarBear]

I didn't see your previous thread so I'm wondering if you tried Pepcid. One of my guys will vomit bile if he doesn't get his before every meal.

[Guest RaznNik]

Hi Xtrawld, both my guys would occasionaly throw up in the am especially. I have limited the types of treats they receive during the day - so if its liver, stick to liver, if its lung, stick to lung. When I was mixing them up, they would get sick. It has seemed to improve over time greatly and it has been quite some time since it has happened. Of course I am not 100% sure this is the reason, but it seemed to be. Also limited the amount of treats - very limited.

[XTRAWLD]

I have not tried Pepcid - but have been thinking about it and mentioned it to the vet and he nodded it is something worth using, however we haven't gone down that route yet. Is Pepcid ok to give daily?

 

I cut the dosage on the Cerenia last night, and so far, Ryder is more alert - more like himself but with the added bonus of not wanting to throw up.

[Guest JarBear]

I have not tried Pepcid - but have been thinking about it and mentioned it to the vet and he nodded it is something worth using, however we haven't gone down that route yet. Is Pepcid ok to give daily?

 

I cut the dosage on the Cerenia last night, and so far, Ryder is more alert - more like himself but with the added bonus of not wanting to throw up.

 

My boy has been on 10mg twice a day for several years. His bloodwork is always good so I don't worry about it. I get Famotidine (generic Pepcid) at Costco or Sam's. It comes in 20mg so I just cut them in half. I try to give it to him 30 minutes before meals but don't always manage to get it to him that far out. It seems to work anyway. The only time he vomits bile now is if I'm really late with a feeding and he gets too hungry.

[XTRAWLD]

Thanks for the tip JarBear. When I'm at Costco next, I'll look for em. Except I should probably buy a small pack at the drug store to try to see if it works before buying a massive bottle.

 

The vet is trying to encourage me to go from raw back to gasto-intestinal diet (kibble). I don't feel that I have given enough time to raw to completely throw it out the window.....so if I can try to get them to adjust to the raw better and give raw and honest go, I'd be willing to try the Pepcid to control the acid.

 

The Cerenia is working well but of course can't be used long term. Half dose is so far the key.

[GeorgeofNE]

I didn't see your previous thread so I'm wondering if you tried Pepcid. One of my guys will vomit bile if he doesn't get his before every meal.

 

I had a mixed breed dog who vomited his entire life--until I started him on Zantac (similar to Pepcid, and not to be confused with Xanax!) every day. It was a HUGE help.

[XTRAWLD]

Now, while I want to do this (pepcid) on my own, I want to get the vet's blessing I think...since he's treating him and all. How do I "convince" him this is the route I want to go down, something I want to do and try and get a proper dosage idea from him...... I want to give raw an honest go and not flip back to kibble or feed kibble with raw (although admittedly I'm on the fence to not feed him raw exclusively).

 

In regards to food change for Batmom

Reason I suggested changing food in the other thread...

= I'm going to consider replacing the pork belly in his diet with chicken. We are only 3 solid weeks in to the raw feeding introduction, so I need to be a little slow with replacing his diet to see if it will work, but now that I'm over 3 weeks it presents itself with a good option.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Chase gets Pepcid (10 mg) twice a day, every day, at the vet's recommendation. She suggests it for any dog having tummy troubles. Rogan used to get Pepcid too, until we switched kibbles (for a third time) and landed on something that agrees with him. He also gets a snack before bedtime.

[XTRAWLD]

I think I may have heard him about to vomit last night, which would have meant Cerenia wasn't working....but it all stayed down. Last night was the last night for pills, so we are on our own. I think tonight he'll get a piece of bread before bed and see how that goes. I was able to sleep a full night on Thursday night for the first time in about 2 weeks. YAY!