Heavy Bruising, At E-Vet

[Guest Hoolyghans]

Back story

Wed night both dogs out for final potty. Abba lets out GSOD. Comes in limping on back left leg. No visible injury, is favoring that leg but putting weight on it. Thursday evening notice the whole inside of her thigh is a big huge bruise. Dark purple. Still walking gingerly but putting weight on it. Friday, still sore. Gave 1 aspirin in the morning, one at dinner time. Made decision last night to take her to the vet today to be on safe side.

 

Vet today. Did xray, nothing broken but vet very concerned about bruising. While doing the xray & taking blood, new bruises appeared on her ribs & front leg from being held. Also the spot where they stuck her wouldn't stop bleeding. I did tell her about the aspirin up front, didn't think 2 doses shouldn't have this kind of effect.

 

I do not think she was handled roughly, the new bruises came up within minutes. I believe it was from normal handling pressure. Vet very concerned about clotting issues so off to E-vet (Garden State)

 

Admitted, on fluids. Garden State vet just called. Coagulation panels came back normal, 2 different clotting time tests normal. Platelet counts came back low normal, she said she knew GH's usually run kind of high. Now I'm a little confused if it was low normal for a GH or for a regular dog?? I didn't think to ask for the actual number but will ask next phone call. Did a chest xray, heart & lungs clear.

 

Tick panel was sent out, should have results Monday. $200 for tick panel??

 

Tomorrow wants to do an U/S of abdomen/spleen and another blood test called a BMBT.

 

I'm not very savvy when it comes to this stuff. Any thoughts? Any GH idiosyncracies that would fit in this category? Any specific questions I should ask? ER vet was rattling off *every* clotting disorder possibility, definitely the type to hear hoofbeats and think zebra instead of horse. I did tell her a few times that we want to do what she needs but at the same time, please take things as close to 1step at a time as is safe.

 

BTW, Abba is 5 yrs old, home for 3, came from WV.

[HopeForHounds]

I would be asking the vet to put her on Amicar. Many greyhounds have a bleeding disorder unique to greyhounds. Dr Couto has studied it and doesn't understand it but uses Amicar especially when doing surgery. I would have your vet contact the OSU Greyhound Health and Wellness team for help.

 

My Jake has a bleeding disorder that has become worse over time. He bruises badly from needle punctures even after compression and bandaging.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Oh, gosh.

 

The cost of the tick panel seems high, but that varies by lab and location. Do you know what tests they sent out?

 

How is Abba other than the bruising?

 

Just a general suggestion that I've found comes in handy in E vet situations. Get a free "fax to email" account (like Efax) and ask that test results, estimates, test requests, etc. be faxed there. That way you don't have to try to listen carefully, ask the right questions, and remember the answers during times of stress and rely on your memory later. You'll also have the tests run, the results, and the ranges handy and can fax them elsewhere for a second opinion if need be.

 

Just another gratuitous hug because I know how hard this must be

[Guest mcsheltie]

I would be asking the vet to put her on Amicar. Many greyhounds have a bleeding disorder unique to greyhounds. Dr Couto has studied it and doesn't understand it but uses Amicar especially when doing surgery. I would have your vet contact the OSU Greyhound Health and Wellness team for help.

 

My Jake has a bleeding disorder that has become worse over time. He bruises badly from needle punctures even after compression and bandaging.

I would do this before I started sinking a lot of money into tests.

Edited April 3, 2011 by mcsheltie

[Batmom]

Sending prayers.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I would be asking the vet to put her on Amicar. Many greyhounds have a bleeding disorder unique to greyhounds. Dr Couto has studied it and doesn't understand it but uses Amicar especially when doing surgery. I would have your vet contact the OSU Greyhound Health and Wellness team for help.

 

My Jake has a bleeding disorder that has become worse over time. He bruises badly from needle punctures even after compression and bandaging.

I would do this before I stared sinking a lot of money into tests.

 

My recommendation, too. Apparently, greyhounds normally form clots just fine (so their blood looks good on the vet's clotting tests), but the clots are weak and don't hold well.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Not sure what I did... I was trying to edit the spelling in my first post

Edited April 3, 2011 by mcsheltie

[greyhead]

Our TBD testing was $140-ish, as I remember, but yours was done through an e-vet, which may make a difference. (We always felt relatively safe because our dogs raced in Kansas and WV. But Shane, we realized, was raised in OK -- considerably less safe for tick exposure. Sure enough, he turned up positive for Babesia, and treating it helped him a lot.)

[XTRAWLD]

My sister-in-law has a condition that causes easy brusing. A light touch and she could get a bruise. Could it be that easy?

[Guest Hoolyghans]

Thank you everyone!!!

 

Generally speaking, how long does it take Dr. Couto to review info sent to him?

I'm going to search the board for more info about Amicar but if anyone has a link/info so I will know what I"m talking about when I ask the vet, that would be great.

 

 

It's hard to think straight when both vets are voicing dire possibilities (could be bleeding internally, a minor bump could cause a bleed out if she's home etc etc) and it's late Saturday afternoon. Unfortunately our regular vet is on vacation, he is very sensible & greyhound savvy. We've been using him for years, if he starts looking for a zebra, 10 to 1 a zebra will walk in the room. I was not pleased with the vet that was on duty at his office yesterday (and will be telling him so!) and the e-vet looked like a teenager ::::sigh::::

 

We love Abba and will provide any care she needs but at the same time, money is a huge issue right now. We still haven't finished paying off the care credit for Spike who died in Sept (within 24 hrs of being diagnosed w/ Hemangiosarcoma, 2 yrs old) It's so difficult to sort out what's medically necessary and what's "just in case" testing. She's not showing any symptoms of internal bleeding or being anemic, her vitals are all strong. She was panting a lot at the vets because she was stressed out but at home her breathing was normal. She hasn't been acting sick in any way, just mildly subdued which I attributed to the pain in her leg. For instance we had company on Friday afternoon and she got appropriately excited and demanding attention from her new admirer. She was eating & drinking normally as well.

 

Frankly I was a little annoyed that the e-vet went ahead with the chest xray before getting any blood work back. That seemed a little quick on the draw. There is going to be a internal medicine vet handling her care on Sunday, I'm thinking I'm going to call them and ask her to call me before she does the U/S.

 

 

 

[tbhounds]

I'm a little concerned about a comment made in your first post--you mentioned that the vet said that they knew GH's platelet counts run on the high side. Perhaps that was a typo?? GH's HCT (pcv) run high but, actually the platelet and WBC can run on the low side. Brusing (petechia) just really isn't seen with normal platelet counts. I don't think I would do anymore $ testing until I ran another platelet count in the morning.

[Batmom]

Assuming the "chest" x-ray included a full abdominal view? That's standard procedure when you have extensive and unexplained bleeding/bruising -- you really want to see if spleen, liver, etc. are out of bounds. Not doing it would be more surprising. It also seems to be becoming standard procedure to do a stat tick panel when there are symptoms + platelets below a certain level (or certain other markers).

 

Hoping your pupper is better this morning!

[robinw]

Dr. Couto's office got back to me within a day of contacting him. Please contact him and keep us posted, OK?

[Guest Hoolyghans]

I'm a little concerned about a comment made in your first post--you mentioned that the vet said that they knew GH's platelet counts run on the high side. Perhaps that was a typo?? GH's HCT (pcv) run high but, actually the platelet and WBC can run on the low side. Brusing (petechia) just really isn't seen with normal platelet counts. I don't think I would do anymore $ testing until I ran another platelet count in the morning.

 

It's not a typo but it's possible I heard wrong/misunderstood what she was saying

 

I did call over there around 4am and said to have today's treating doctor call me before they do anything else. Haven't gotten a call yet, may nudge them again.

 

My thinking at the moment that is unless they feel she is at significant risk of internal bleeding (rather than "well...it's always a possibility) I'd like to skip the U/S, bring her home and wait on the tick panel results. Also will ask them to call Dr C. Would it be a good idea to get a copy of her blood work and send it over myself? Also going to print out the articles here https://greyhound.osu.edu/resources/freeresources/index.cfm and leave them with the Dr.

 

I'm a little confused about the Amicar stuff but I'm going to ask if it's available.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Amicar is Aminocaproic acid. It is used for human hemophiliacs or to counteract thrombolytic drugs if a patient was given an overdose. Greyhounds can have a bleeding problem that is only seen in GHs. Dogs with this condition will pool blood under the skin after surgery and dentals. If they bruise, they will bleed. The pooling blood is usually seen about 24 hours after surgery or accident.

 

Amicar stops it quickly. That is why Dr Couto gives it to all surgery patients at OSU.

 

You need to get script at a human pharmacy. Often you'll have to go to a hospital pharmacy to find it. Walgreens on our area carries it. I always make sure there is a supply locally before we neuter/spay our fosters.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Assuming the "chest" x-ray included a full abdominal view? That's standard procedure when you have extensive and unexplained bleeding/bruising -- you really want to see if spleen, liver, etc. are out of bounds. Not doing it would be more surprising. It also seems to be becoming standard procedure to do a stat tick panel when there are symptoms + platelets below a certain level (or certain other markers).

 

It's doubtful that the chest x-rays included the abdomen, unless they specifically requested it. Many vets in NJ just do a standard two views of the heart and lungs, especially if it's a specialty hospital and they have the ability to use an abdominal ultrasound to "get a better look."

[Guest Hoolyghans]

Ohhhkay

Just talked to the on-duty vet. This one sounded like a grownup at least! She actually started off talking about how Greyhounds have idiosyncracies that other dogs don't and she mentioned the greyhound bleeding thing before I had a chance to. She knew who Dr Couto was as soon as I said his name. Made me feel a *lot* better.

 

Abba is looking good, romping out in the turn out yard with only the tiniest of limp. She doesn't think there is any active bleeding at this time and doesn't think we need an U/S or other extensive testing. We talked about Amicar, she was familiar with it's uses but didn't think it was necessary because again, she doesn't think there is active bleeding.

She's going to do a quick RBC recheck to compare against yesterday's and also wanted to do a urinalysis to check for some protein wasting something or other. If both those look good, Abba will come home today. She'd like to send her home with a light pain killer for her leg and abx in case the tick panel comes back positive. Also suggested I take pictures of the bruising so we have a baseline in case it appears to get worse. She did of course mention there are some serious possibilities in cases like these but in her opinion, she doesn't think that's what Abba is dealing with. That it's most likely either a TBD or just a "greyhound thing".

I felt much more comfortable with this vet than the two from yesterday!

ETA...I will still ask her to call Dr C and if she seems reluctant to do so, I'll send the reports over myself.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Hoolyghans

[KF_in_Georgia]

Oh, good. A vet who actually knows there is a "greyhound thing"--instead of just thinking she's got an owner suffering from "my dog is special" hysteria.

 

Please keep us posted.

Edited April 3, 2011 by KF_in_Georgia

[greytluck]

I'm not trying to scare you but has hemagosarcoma been considered? My boy had these large sudden bruises from it, much like you described. I truly hope it isn't but just thought I would mention it in case it happens again.

[Guest Hoolyghans]

I'm not trying to scare you but has hemagosarcoma been considered? My boy had these large sudden bruises from it, much like you described. I truly hope it isn't but just thought I would mention it in case it happens again.

 

Unfortunately we're all too familiar with it too. We lost a Golden at 12 years to it and just this past September lost our Grey Spike to it, he was only 2 yrs old

Anyway, it was mentioned as a possibility but today's vet didn't think it was a very likely possibility. We are certainly going to keep a close eye on her, anything out of the ordinary will be followed up w/ vet immediately.

[tbhounds]

Sounds like a good vet-- remember her name for the future.

[Guest crazy4greys]

I don't know if your vet explored the possibility of von Willebrand Disease. My vet tested my greyhound Phoenix when he had unexplained huge bruises that kept spreading, but finally clotted. Just a thought.

Edited April 3, 2011 by crazy4greys

[mychip1]

Many wishes for continued recovery.

[tbhounds]

Curious bump-- how's your pup??

[Guest IrskasMom]

Is there an Update ???