Accidents In The House

[Guest dragontearz]

We've had Oberon a week now. On Sunday, we made sure to take him out before we left, did groceries, and when we came back an hour later he had pooped in the house, even though he had done the same right before we left. Today, I went to school at 1PM, when my wife got home at 5 she came in to one tiny bit of poo and he had peed in our bedroom on the floor, and he had pulled my pillow off the bed and it was in the living room on his dog bed. We make sure to take him out frequently from waking up until we go to bed, and his poo is finally going from pudding to almost tootsie roll firmness, but not quite.

 

I'm assuming because his foster family was home all the time due to being retired he was able to go out all during the day. I'm not too concerned yet, but am wondering if we're doing it correctly. I never had an accident with Guinness in the house, and the foster mom for Oberon said she never had an accident from him in her home, though the previous adopter of him did when her boyfriend wasn't in the picture anymore.

 

I have classes four hours a day, four days a week-otherwise I'm home studying, so the most he goes is 4 1/2 hours in between potty breaks. Is it just a matter of getting him used to our schedule?

 

Any suggestions and advice are welcome. We aren't sweating it yet, but if a crate is needed for him, I'll buy one. The foster mom said he wouldn't need one seeing as he was perfect in her home, but I'm wondering if it might be a good idea. When we taped him Sunday, he was whining and barking, and tried to open the door know with his mouth.

 

Even with that, he's been roaching the past few days, but by the time I get the camera turned on he's flipped and it's over..lol

Edited March 22, 2011 by dragontearz

[MaryJane]

Do you use "key words" when he does his stuff outside? If not, start using keywords and "praise" very heavily when he does what he is supposed to outside. For a new dog/foster I always take out 1) after they get up from sleeping, 2) after playing, 3) after food, and 4) every 2 to 4 hours until they "understand".

 

Good luck

[Guest dragontearz]

Yep, we've been sure to praise him when he does his stuff every time, and have been taking him out after eating, playing, and every 2 hours otherwise...If we happen to wake up in the night, we'll take him out then just in case to make sure.

[OwnedBySummer]

Summer took quite a while. It's almost like she was going, "well, leave me alone, will they, I'll show them!". I knew she could hold it for hours and that she'd gone just before I left but if I went out for a couple of hours... sure enough, there was a pee. I bought the enzyme cleaner, kept my carpet shampooer upstairs and we did the same scenario over and over and over. And yes, I was praising when she went outside. Finally, I resorted to dragging her over to it and yelling at her (which "everyone says" not to do) but it worked and she hasn't done it since. And that was some months ago.

[Tallgreydogmom]

Is it possible to have him take a nap in a crate while you are out? His system might need to be stabilized, he knows about a crate. Also a belly band. The food might not be agreeing with his system. Try him on a low-residue food and coordinate his poop schedule with yours. Do not feed before you go out. He's just not on the same page you are yet

[Jackandgrey]

Have you been doing alone training with him?

[Houndtime]

Maybe a crate is not entirely necessary. What if you babygate him in just one room or area? We do that we our dogs when we go out.

[Guest dragontearz]

I was on Spring Break last week and worked on alone training, but had only gotten up to a couple hours with him by himself, which he did well with until Sunday when we went to do groceries. He's on the same food he was on at the foster mom's house, Iams Lamb and Rice, and when I just let him out in the backyard, he just stood at the back door looking back in, so I put my coat on and stood out in the backyard with him, and waiting him out until he went poo. We have been giving him 2 cups of food when we get up, and 2 more cups around 6 at night - my classes start anywhere from 12 to 4 in the afternoon, and I didn't want to feed him in one shot later at night. I got too used to Guinness always being free-fed and it never being an issue I guess.

 

I can get a crate if it makes it easier for both him and us, and a belly band might be a good idea too, though I've never used one.

 

We have a baby gate, we were using it to keep him out of the laundry room where the cats food and water are, but maybe we should reverse it, and baby gate him into the kitchen, and keep him out of the rest of the house if we are not there with him.

 

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it

Edited March 22, 2011 by dragontearz

[Batmom]

Sounds like he is anxious about you being gone. A long walk (or play session, if conditions don't allow for a walk) before you leave might help to tire him out and help the alone-training process.

[XTRAWLD]

Here is my experience:

 

Kasey has never had an accident in the house, ever.

 

Ryder would pee in our house often when we first got him. He actually didn't learn a signal like Kasey. Our old house, when we first got Kasey, had a yard. Kasey eventually associated going out with that door, and he would tink the door handle if he had to go out and we weren't paying attention.

 

It just seemed like Ryder ALWAYS had to go. We would take him out and a half hour later he'd pee on the floor. I didn't think however that it was marking, he just wasn't doing it "right" to be classified as marking. Could he be smelling Guiness?

 

I was convinced he had some kind of UTI - but the vet said impossible. We didn't realize that his pacing around the house was the only signal we could learn from him. I really think that his peeing was a culmination of these items:

We didn't pay enough attention to the amount of water he drank and when.

We didn't realize that he had very little ability to hold his bladder and he needed to work on that.

We didn't notice his pacing and a worried look just before he "went".

 

He peed often enough that I bought a spot bot. And then we decided to throw out the whole carpet. LOL

 

The self diagnosis of a UTI - well whatever it was eventually went away with some Vitamin C, salty water cleaning in the winky region, and believe it or not, more drinking so he could rid the infection. He used to pee in three streams and it would dribble, now it's one good steady one. We never had a poop problem from either dog.

 

I am a crate believer. I think crating is a great tool. Accidents almost NEVER happen in there, and they learn that the home really is their crate eventually, and won't eliminate in the home. He also didn't understand that the house was his "crate" yet, and he shouldn't be going in it.

 

Greys are creatures of routine and schedule. I can't begin to tell you how often we started taking Ryder out when we got him and we STILL had accidents. He's also only been with you a week, there will be some learning pains as he adjusts to his new home. The poop almost sounds like what was suggested earlier, (leave me alone here will you?) Spite. I know of many friends cats that do this LOL

 

Keep us posted.

[3greytjoys]

Sometimes when a dog is a bit uncomfortable with being alone, especially during transition, they can't hold their urine and bowel as well as other times. Soft serve or diarrhea is common in any new environment (even a day visit to a dog event). I always have a fecal test done for a new hound to check for worms, giardia, etc. and I look at their stool for anything moving during the first week or two. If one fecal is clear, something undetectable could be brewing in an early stage. Good idea to have a follow-up fecal, especially if stool remains too soft for too long.

 

Oberon might do fine baby-gated in one room since he's lived in homes before. Personally, that's a "graduation" for hounds here. I use crates for a new hound, especially one with a potty accident history. I feed the new hound in a closed-door crate to help them view it as their safe and happy place. (Lots of praise helps, too.) After mealtime outside potty success, I leave the crate door open most of the time while I'm home, so the hound can wander in on his own. Good to close the door part-time when someone is home so he doesn't associate being left alone every time the crate door closes. (Hound always gets a treat if I need to put him in the crate.) Most mature hounds graduate out of the closed-door crate fairly quickly after they've become comfortable in a new home. I never ever put a dog in a crate for punishment.

 

Now, I happen to have 6 regular dog beds, plus 2 open-door crates in the room where we spend most of our time. There is almost always a hound in both crates because some prefer the warm, cave-like feeling of a crate, especially in winter. There's heck to pay if another hound is in my senior boy's favorite crate. He comes to get me, I'm supposed follow him, and then "we" ask the other hound to move out of his crate. One of my girls runs into her crate (from across the room) and "sits" to wait for her bowl at mealtime. She's adorable. During hot weather, they like to stretch out a little more on the regular dog beds.

 

Baby-gate tip with cats: I install my baby-gates about 5"- 6" above floor level, so cats always have an easy escape route.

Edited March 23, 2011 by 3greytjoys

[Guest dragontearz]

I leave for school in a few hours, will make sure to take him out until he goes potty in the backyard(would take him for a walk but it's raining bad right now) and praise him, then babygate him in the kitchen until I get home 4 hours later. Having house privileges while home alone is going to be something he earns and graduates to I think. Once again, thanks for all the suggestions and advice!

[Guest bethac]

Thinking of you and hoping things go better today. One other idea to consider ... give him a Kong stuffed with small treats and peanut butter as you are leaving ... keeps him busy for awhile and he associates you leaving with something wonderful.

[Guest dragontearz]

Well, I came home to discover the corner of the wall in the kitchen by the baby gate with a couple easily fixable gnaw marks on it, and a pile of poo near the back patio door. He had gone out and we played in the yard before I left, and I made SURE he peed and pooped before I left. I made no big deal about leaving, just left with no big hurrahs and went to school. Good news is, his poo is finally normal and easily picked up..guh..I think it's crate time, at least for now until we all get on the same schedule and he realizes that we are coming back home every day.

 

I walked in, let him outside and then cleaned everything up, and when he came back in he ignored me and is now laying on his bed avoiding looking at me-I didn't raise my voice or get angry, just let him out then dealt with the mess.

Edited March 23, 2011 by dragontearz

[3greytjoys]

Until you get a crate... If he's going for the wall or wood trim, "Bitter Yuck" spray may help (if liquid-based product doesn't harm your paint). Assuming he arrived with a turn-out muzzle, that should help save your wall. Please do a quick safety check of the room to make sure the muzzle won't catch on anything.

[Guest happygrey]

It does sound like he's anxious about you leaving. I'd recommend more alone training and taking him on a good, brisk walk (rather than just going out in the yard) before you go out. And leave him babygated in a room he likes to sleep in or in a crate with a treat filled kong (peanut butter or whatever).

 

Best of luck!

[Guest dragontearz]

Well, we went and bought a crate after my wife got home-Oberon went in it freely on his own when I set it up, and when we left for a few minutes he pawed at the door on the crate when he was inside it and whined (we taped it on the webcam on my laptop while we were outside). He pooped by the front door on Sunday, peed and pooped in the bedroom on Tuesday, and today he was baby-gated in the kitchen, and that's the room he pooped in and chewed the edge of the doorway in).

 

So, we went and bought a crate, and a Kong for him and peanut butter to put in it for him when we aren't home. We have a bone filled with peanut butter that we bought at the pet store, is that an option as well?(someone suggested bacon flavored Nylabones too, sorry if I forgot the name, I'm horrible with names). Guinness never cared for filled bones or Kongs and, I'm not sure if the bone would be bad for Oberon, or if it's perfectly fine.

 

I do think more alone training is needed. His last adopter returned him due to his pooping in the house after the boyfriend left the picture, so I can see him taking time to realize that we are going to come back after leaving every time we need to go to school or work, and that he is here to stay no matter what.

 

There was no chance of a good walk today-it was rainy/sleety outside, and while I usually have no problem walking a dog in crappy weather, this morning was just to nasty out to attempt it.

Edited March 24, 2011 by dragontearz

[3greytjoys]

 

So, we went and bought a crate, and a Kong for him and peanut butter to put in it for him when we aren't home. We have a bone filled with peanut butter that we bought at the pet store, is that an option as well?(someone suggested bacon flavored Nylabones too, sorry if I forgot the name, I'm horrible with names). Guinness never cared for filled bones or Kongs and, I'm not sure if the bone would be bad for Oberon, or if it's perfectly fine.

 

It probably depends on the type of natural bone. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a natural bone with an unsupervised dog. Some natural bones can splinter, and bones should be taken away from the dog when they get too small. (BTW, a veterinarian taught our first aid group that natural bones with fat or marrow should be avoided, they frequently cause diarrhea.)

 

All my hounds' favorite Nylabone is the "Dura-Chew" (fist shape), "Souper" size, available in bacon, liver, or chicken flavor. Any of the non-edible, hard Nylabones are quite safe.

(Peanut butter can also be iced on part of a Nylabone, if needed to encourage greater interest.)

http://www.nylabone.com/product-finder/by-product-type/dura-chew-bone-original.htm

[Batmom]

I wouldn't leave any type of bone, natural or not, with an unsupervised dog. One of mine could crunch the hard Nylabones like they were candy. Kong is usually safe tho.

[Guest Shermanator]

How is Oberon doing in his crate? His pooping sounds like he has some anxieties over people leaving him. However, you have gotten great advice here! I had the reverse problem. My bridge boy Sherman lost his mind in the crate. He'd freakout, so we had to leave him out. We would video tape him while we were gone, and out of the crate, he was a lazy boy who lounged on his bed like it was his job. Every pup is different. Sherman and Patton were never big chewers or played a lot with toys, but we still left them out while we would go out. Never had a problem in the 6 years they were with us.

 

We did have a problem with our other bridge boy Patton peeing in the house when we would leave. We did everything, vet him, alone train, etc, but he'd still pee. (We couldn't crate him, since he had gotten rid of the crate, since just the sight of it would freak Sherman out.) We resorted to a belly band, and had no problems. Patton was a marker, and would be on anything he could. However, we eventually installed a dog door, and leave it open at all times. We had to remove Patton's band, since he'd have access to the outside when we would be gone, and we never had a problem. Once he had access to the outside, he never peed in the house again. As for the possibility of smelling Guinness, that could be a factor, since whenever Patton was at the sitter's he'd be banded again, or it was a pee-fest. He was determined to cover up every other dogs' scent.

 

Our new little girls are much different. We do not have room for a crate, nor can we baby gate off our kitchen, (since its open with our great room. When we first left, they went nuts. In the trash, and chewing whatever they could get their little paws on. (Fortunately no furniture, just things, like my shoes!) They once got the laundry and dragged it all over the house. They are both very young, and mischievous. We have had success with alone training. We do leave all toys out, all bones out, and have relatively 'dog proofed' the house. Nothing they can shred is left in their reach. We also shut off all other rooms to the house, so they cannot get into them. When we come come, there are toys and bones everywhere (even outside), but they're fine.

[Guest dragontearz]

Well, we moved the bed and dresser to different spots in our bedroom to make room for that big-ass crate seeing as there just isn't room for it in the rest of the house unless we want to remove the couch or chair in the living room. We left the door open on the crate and have fed him in it, and he slept in it all night and hung out in it last night and is still napping in it right now, even though the door is open and his bed in the living room is close by.

 

I know what you mean about the crate-Guinness HATED the crate, and after three days of coming home from work to find the blanket under it covered in blood from him biting it so hard and freaking out, we took it down and only had a few problems with him after that, all dealing with garbage cans and peeing on the mess after he dragged it through the house. A gate blocking the kitchen solved that problem!

 

I was apprehensive about getting a crate remembering how Guinness hated them so much and after the foster mom said he wouldn't need one, but when we went to the pet store and went to the display area, Obie walked into two of the crates on his own as we looked at them.

 

And, he just went outside for a potty break and when he came back in, walked past his bed in the living room and laid in his crate.

[Guest dragontearz]

I figured I'd try to work on alone time with him today and put him in the crate for about ten minuted before I left, then went out the door without saying bye like it was a normal thing, and came back a few minutes later, ignoring him for ten minutes, then letting him out of the crate and going on about regular household activities, and taped him on the webcam while I was outside, and did this for a few hours-the neighbors must think I'm nuts going in and out over and over for hours.

 

Holy crap! I'm not sure if it's normal, but he did NOT stop trying to force the crate door open by running his muzzle forcibly along the bottom of the front of the crate back and forth, and did not let up the entire time each time I left the house.

 

I don't want him to hurt himself, he didn't come with a muzzle from the foster home(the first adopter didn't give it to her with the rest of his stuff) and the petstore didn't carry them, just fabric ones for small dogs.

 

I'm not opposed to keeping him in the kitchen for easy cleanup if he does go potty in the house, or keeping him in the rest of the house and blocking the laundry room off seeing as the floors are easily cleanable throughout, but crimeny-I almost wish I didn't tape him, seeing him get all worked up and then going in the house on camera is a wee bit stressful.

 

I'm almost wondering if while continuing the alone training, I should try a different approach, and only babygate the laundry room off that has the cat's food, water and litterbox in it, and shut the bathroom door,pull his crate up to where it is the only thing he can get to in our bedroom, which would give him the kitchen, living room and hallway to be in while we are away at work or school.

Edited March 24, 2011 by dragontearz

[Guest dragontearz]

OK, I just tried peanut butter in the Kong I got, left him in the living room, and was able to go outside for five minutes-when I came back in and checked the video, he was was still nomming on it while I came in and never paid attention as to when I left or came back...not sure what he might do when the peanut butter runs out or if I should give it to him in the crate, but it looks like it's going in the right direction!

[JJNg]

Holy crap! I'm not sure if it's normal, but he did NOT stop trying to force the crate door open by running his muzzle forcibly along the bottom of the front of the crate back and forth, and did not let up the entire time each time I left the house.

I've heard the term "alone training" here a lot, but I don't know the specific details or steps. I do know that in general if you're trying to desensitize a dog to being alone, it should be done slowly enough and in a way that never triggers the dog to get upset.

 

It sounds like Oberon is ok in the crate until you leave? And I think the crate is in your bedroom? At what point does he get upset about you leaving when he's shut in the crate? Is he ok when you're in the house but out of his sight? If not, that's the place to start. Step out of his sight for a second and come right back before he gets upset. Or if he doesn't get upset until you actually go out an outside door, start there. Open the door, step out, and come right back in, even if it's only half a second. The beginning steps can be quite tedious, but once you get up to a few minutes, it goes much faster.

 

The stuffed Kong may work to distract him and help you start with longer periods, but if he gets upset immediately after the Kong is finished, you'll have to come back before that happens. The video camera may help you determine how he does after the Kong is done.

 

I almost wish I didn't tape him, seeing him get all worked up and then going in the house on camera is a wee bit stressful.

A lot of people don't realize the amount of emotional distress that is experienced by a dog with separation anxiety until they actually see it on video. Even when you come home to the accidents and destruction, it's easy to think the dog was just mad at being left or bored, but this is why it's called separation anxiety. I do think many dogs experience a mild (and often temporary) form of separation anxiety when first adjusting to a new home, so hopefully that's all it is with Oberon.

[3greytjoys]

OK, I just tried peanut butter in the Kong I got, left him in the living room, and was able to go outside for five minutes-when I came back in and checked the video, he was was still nomming on it while I came in and never paid attention as to when I left or came back...not sure what he might do when the peanut butter runs out or if I should give it to him in the crate, but it looks like it's going in the right direction!

 

Yea!!! This is fabulous news.... He can be fully distracted while you are out of the house!!! Remember to pick up the Kong when you return. The goal is for him to LOVE that treat SO MUCH that he looks FORWARD to you leaving, so he gets his super high value treat! (Like a teenager loves it when parents leave the house.) Yes, Kong inside the crate should help him feel better about his crate time. If your school/work schedule allows, best to do that in brief increments too. The other poster is right, if you have the time to do this alone training in small increments to stay ahead of his discomfort, that's ideal. Every dog responds differently so your idea of trying limited dog-safe room space to include his open crate is okay. While you're home, try closing his crate door while he's eating. Other times, when he's resting in his crate, quietly close the crate door while you watch TV or study (for brief times) so he doesn't associate it with being left. Reward good behavior by tossing him a special treat when he is being relaxed and quiet in the closed door crate. He clearly feels safe in the crate (open door) so it's good expand on that. Some dogs do well in an ex-pen, but a comfortable hound in either crate or ex-pen can make life much easier for many reasons: when visitors with young children visit; visiting other people's homes; for weekend or longer travel; attending all day events, etc..

 

Freezing a fully stuffed Kong will last longer (room temperature is good to develop initial interest = higher scent and ease of licking at room temp.). You can also mix his kibble with peanut butter to help fill it up more before freezing. There are a host of things that can be placed in a Kong. Remember to wash Kong thoroughly with soap and warm water (and bottle brush) every day so bacteria doesn't build-up.

 

Your adoption group should be able to help get a muzzle to you, if not, you can order one on-line. They come in handy in many cases, it's good to have one for him. (I need to muzzle 2 of my hounds for toenail clipping/dremeling; doctoring paw injuries; preventing licking injuries. All hounds get muzzled for playdates with other muzzled hounds, meeting new dog visitors, etc.)

 

Greyt job with your Kong alone training this morning! Thanks for keeping us posted...