White Blood Cell Count

[Guest ScottH]

Argos had the mild seizure 2 weeks ago and has been fine ever since. We took him to the vets and they ran his bloodwork. The only unusual item was his WBC was low, even for a greyhound. It was 2800. She put him on an anti-biotic for 2 weeks and we ran his bloodwork again this week.

The WBC was improved to 3200, but still low, though inside the possibility for a greyhound. We have no previous numbers to compare this to.

The vet thinks running a titer check for his ehrlichia is called for. I agree this is a prudent thing to do since it is possible that he never had it eradicated on his first treatment 3 1/2 years ago.

the titer number will also be useful going forward.

the vet feels it is possible that he is still infected with ehrlichia and that could be causing some of his issues, though overall he seems healthy and full of life. the boy is a bundle of energy and loves his walks, playing with his little brother Kota and Agility Classes.

If the titer is high, she thinks it could indicate ehrlichia is still present in him and we will start a Doxycillin regime. If the numbers are okay, I think it best to stop there and re-check in a few months, rather than trying to diagnose what could be a 'normal' WBC for Argos.

Any opinions from others who have been down this path appreciated.

Thank you!

[AEB]

When Sadie was young we had a "scare" due to her WBC. It was low. I do not remember what because this was nearly a decade ago. It was repeated and had dropped even. Our vet thought she may have cancer. But he also wondered if that low number was possibly a normal count for greys and talked to a local hospital and also Tufts, I think. His thoughts were confirmed. She lived another ten years until this July.

 

I believe that OSu's website might have "normal" values for greys on their site if you poke around through the articles. If you don't find it, call them or email them or have your vet do so.

 

Also, was Erlichia confirmed? Was his original antibiotic regimen protracted? Could he have another TBD also? Are they testing for others? Is he running a fever? Any lymphnodes or joints swollen? Lyme will not always titer and its symptoms can flare. But an infection I would suspect would raise the WBC. Good luck to you and Argos!

[turbotaina]

From OSU's site:

 

 

<H3>White blood cells (WBCs)

WBCs are commonly used to fight infection and are a part of the immune system; the reference range for WBC counts in normal dogs is 4,000 to 15,000/µl (or 4-15 X 109/L). Greyhounds frequently have lower WBC counts than normal dogs, and commonly have between 2,000 and 6,000/µl (2-6 X 109/L); therefore, a WBC count of 2,000/µl (2.0 X

109/L) is normal for the breed and should not be of concern in an otherwise healthy dog. There are several types of circulating WBCs, including neutrophils (banded or segmented neutrophils), lymphocytes, monocytes, basophils and eosinophils

 

.

 

Sorry - my keyboard is acting stupid and I can't get this to un-bold.

 

I agree in general with your vet's course of action, however, as AEB notes, there could be other TBDs. How was the erlichia DX'd? Via NCSU? If not, I would run a full panel through them. </H3>

[Guest ScottH]

Argos had Ehrlichia coming off the track. Greyhound Friends here in Mass. discovered this and did the 6-8 week treatment regiment with the Doxycillin.

The vet told us that it does not always work even when done properly due to the nature of the Ehrlichia virus. The virus can 'hide' somewhere in the body and reappear later.

He will always test positive for Ehrilchia on the strip test, the smart thing to do is to get an actual titer number, if for no other reason, we have a number to compare to in the future.

He does not have a fever when checked and is otherwise acting normal with the large exception of his small seizure two weeks ago.

He was negative on the other TBDs when tested at his annual physical in January.

Edited March 9, 2011 by ScottH

[MaryJane]

From OSU's site:

 

 

<H3>White blood cells (WBCs)

WBCs are commonly used to fight infection and are a part of the immune system; the reference range for WBC counts in normal dogs is 4,000 to 15,000/µl (or 4-15 X 109/L). Greyhounds frequently have lower WBC counts than normal dogs, and commonly have between 2,000 and 6,000/µl (2-6 X 109/L); therefore, a WBC count of 2,000/µl (2.0 X

109/L) is normal for the breed and should not be of concern in an otherwise healthy dog. There are several types of circulating WBCs, including neutrophils (banded or segmented neutrophils), lymphocytes, monocytes, basophils and eosinophils

 

.

 

Sorry - my keyboard is acting stupid and I can't get this to un-bold.

 

I agree in general with your vet's course of action, however, as AEB notes, there could be other TBDs. How was the erlichia DX'd? Via NCSU? If not, I would run a full panel through them. </H3>

 

 

I just wanted to point out that while OSU's site does reference numbers between 2 to 6 it also goes on to say it is not a concern in an otherwise healthy dog -- the keys words here being "healthy dog". Your dog having a seizure two weeks ago is not typically what would be considered "healthy dog" since the seizures are a new issue and you probably did the blood work looking for "problems". So, the value could be OK but, it could be an indicator of either some infection that is being fought off in the body or the body not being able to mount an aggressive attack against some infection.

 

Before I get flamed - please note that I'm not saying that seizure dogs are "unhealthy" - it's just when it first happens you do not know if there is a medical cause.

 

 

edited - tried to get rid of bolding but it didn't work ...

Edited March 9, 2011 by MaryJane

[Guest ScottH]

Mary Jane,

I understand exactly what you are saying and agree, that is why we are doing the additional testing. We are still trying to figure out why he had a seizure, maybe this is part of it, maybe not. Time may tell.

We just got back from the vets where they drew more blood. Poor Argos was shaking like a leaf when he saw where he was going, again.

A few treats later and he is much better.

They gave us Doxycycline but told us to hold off on it until they tell us to use it. If they feel it is not warranted, we will return it later.

Holding pattern for now with lots of good thoughts for Argos.

[AEB]

From OSU's site:

 

 

<H3>White blood cells (WBCs)

WBCs are commonly used to fight infection and are a part of the immune system; the reference range for WBC counts in normal dogs is 4,000 to 15,000/µl (or 4-15 X 109/L). Greyhounds frequently have lower WBC counts than normal dogs, and commonly have between 2,000 and 6,000/µl (2-6 X 109/L); therefore, a WBC count of 2,000/µl (2.0 X

109/L) is normal for the breed and should not be of concern in an otherwise healthy dog. There are several types of circulating WBCs, including neutrophils (banded or segmented neutrophils), lymphocytes, monocytes, basophils and eosinophils

 

.

 

Sorry - my keyboard is acting stupid and I can't get this to un-bold.

 

I agree in general with your vet's course of action, however, as AEB notes, there could be other TBDs. How was the erlichia DX'd? Via NCSU? If not, I would run a full panel through them. </H3>

 

 

I just wanted to point out that while OSU's site does reference numbers between 2 to 6 it also goes on to say it is not a concern in an otherwise healthy dog -- the keys words here being "healthy dog". Your dog having a seizure two weeks ago is not typically what would be considered "healthy dog" since the seizures are a new issue and you probably did the blood work looking for "problems". So, the value could be OK but, it could be an indicator of either some infection that is being fought off in the body or the body not being able to mount an aggressive attack against some infection.

 

Before I get flamed - please note that I'm not saying that seizure dogs are "unhealthy" - it's just when it first happens you do not know if there is a medical cause.

 

 

edited - tried to get rid of bolding but it didn't work ...

 

No, no flames, I agree that if there are seizures, something is off. It doesn't mean the dog cannot have a good life, even if he continues to have them. But, neurologically something is going on. It may be that those WBCCs are totally normal- they are within the normal range for greys (Sadie, I think, was lower). Is it possible there is a nutritional issue? Seizures can be triggered by nutritional deficiencies. They can also be triggered by a blow to the head (may have happened before you got him or a fall when you were not home), heredity, medications (heartguard), tumors, and any number of other factors. They are tricky. The question is type of seizure and do they recur.

 

With TBDs they can be tough to eliminate from the system, dog or human, and can re-appear (babesia does this as well). They can also be tough to confirm when they cannot be confirmed with a test (and not testing positive does not mean that dog or person is not positive). So take his temperature regularly for a couple of days. Several times a day. Some of these TBDs flare and have cycles and the affected person or dog may have periods of feeling ok mixed with periods of feeling terrible.

 

Other than that I cannot think of what might be going on. But I feel for your boy.

[EllenEveBaz]

No experience here; just adding our good thoughts to Argos's collection.

 

By the way -- what does Argos's racing name -- Bigalsasubvet -- mean? Big Al's a Sub Vet?

Edited March 10, 2011 by EllenEveBaz

[MaryJane]

AEB has a good suggestion - try taking the temperature every few hours (consistently) for a few days and see if the temperature spikes at a particular time in the day or maybe you can catch an "up cycle" in temp.

 

Also, did they do a differential on the WBC to see the types of cells?

 

Have you been around any animal fairs or been exposed to any wild animals in the past 1 to 2 months before the seizure?

[Guest ScottH]

No experience here; just adding our good thoughts to Argos's collection.

 

By the way -- what does Argos's racing name -- Bigalsasubvet -- mean? Big Al's a Sub Vet?

 

Thank you for the extra good thoughts. More are always welcomed!

You parsed his name correctly. I exchanged e-mails with his original owner and she named him after her father 'Big Al', who was in the Navy and served aboard submarines.

His track name was Big, but he is actually a small male, so we thought a whole new name was in order. He took to it right away, so I think it always was his name but no one had figured it out before us.

 

AEB has a good suggestion - try taking the temperature every few hours (consistently) for a few days and see if the temperature spikes at a particular time in the day or maybe you can catch an "up cycle" in temp.

 

Also, did they do a differential on the WBC to see the types of cells?

 

Have you been around any animal fairs or been exposed to any wild animals in the past 1 to 2 months before the seizure?

Temperature taking is a greyt idea. We should try it this weekend. As far as I know, we have not been near any wild animals. Interestingly, he did get his 3 year rabies shot during his annual physical in late January/early February.

[Guest june]

Sending prayers for you and Argo! I have a neighbor who has a dog that has been stable on meds for over 3 years now.

june

[MaryJane]

No experience here; just adding our good thoughts to Argos's collection.

 

By the way -- what does Argos's racing name -- Bigalsasubvet -- mean? Big Al's a Sub Vet?

 

Thank you for the extra good thoughts. More are always welcomed!

You parsed his name correctly. I exchanged e-mails with his original owner and she named him after her father 'Big Al', who was in the Navy and served aboard submarines.

His track name was Big, but he is actually a small male, so we thought a whole new name was in order. He took to it right away, so I think it always was his name but no one had figured it out before us.

 

AEB has a good suggestion - try taking the temperature every few hours (consistently) for a few days and see if the temperature spikes at a particular time in the day or maybe you can catch an "up cycle" in temp.

 

Also, did they do a differential on the WBC to see the types of cells?

 

Have you been around any animal fairs or been exposed to any wild animals in the past 1 to 2 months before the seizure?

Temperature taking is a greyt idea. We should try it this weekend. As far as I know, we have not been near any wild animals. Interestingly, he did get his 3 year rabies shot during his annual physical in late January/early February.

 

You might want to check the date that he had the rabies vaccination -- there could be a slight possibility that he had a reaction to the vaccine ....

[Guest ScottH]

The vet called with the titer results. It was 1:1600.

She felt that since his original infection was 3 1/2 years ago, the number seems a little high, though it is possible that it could be Argos's 'normal' number.

To be safe, we started the Doxycycline regime tonight and will retest his titer in 1 month to see if it has lowered.

I did find this information at this link:

Link to info on Ehrlichia titer values (Babesia too!)

 

Moderate Titers (1:160 - 1:10,240)

 

A moderate titer indicates that the dog is in the late acute/early convalescent phase of disease and that exposure was probably relatively recent. When such dogs are treated, their titers tend to decrease over a shorter period of time (approximately 3-6 months). Generally, if the illness has been brief, they may convert completely to a negative status over a 6-month period after treatment. However, some dogs have been known to remain seropositive, albeit at a significantly lower titer, for an indefinite period of time.

 

I guess it is wait and see and keep a close on on Argos for the next month. I still have not seen any linkage of Erlichia to seizures. So, though this is an important thing to examine, I'm wondering if we are going to find a cause for that episode two and a half weeks ago.

Edited March 10, 2011 by ScottH

[Batmom]

What was his titer before?

[Guest ScottH]

What was his titer before?

 

Unfortunately, it is unknown. When we picked him up, his medical records just showed he was treated, there is no evidence of a titer being done. It never occurred to me to do one ourselves. Poor Argos, having to put up with his owners oversights.

Looking ahead, we do have one now.

[Batmom]

Ah. Makes reasonable sense to treat him then. Hope that will set him 100% right.

[AEB]

It is possible that he could have had a reaction to the vaccine. Not sure how close in time it would need to be to have a link.

 

Also, is he on Heartguard? Some dogs have a reaction to that as well.

 

Also, babesiosis may be tested for in a couple of different ways. I believe that certain tests are more effective, depending on the circumstances. So, he may not titer for that. And that I think would be more likely to cause a seizure. But, that would also probably be evidenced by a lower than normal RBC. But, Greys have higher than normal RBCs. So, if his are just normal could that be low RBC for him and not be caught, I wonder?

 

If he has another seizure meds certainly could help with his quality of life. For now it's a waiting game to see if things improve and to see if he stays seizure free. I hope so. Just see about some pro/prebiotics to help with the tummy trouble that the extended course of doxy may cause. Feel better Argos.

[Guest ScottH]

After a four week course of treatment, Argos's titer dropped to 1:100. A significant drop, but the vet said <1:25 is considered negative. We will bring him back for another full blood panel soon to see if his White Blood Cell count has changed in reaction to the lower titer.

Argos has been seizure free since that one episode in February and has continued with his active life.

I guess we just keep praying that he remains seizure free for as long as he lives.

[mychip1]

Continued prayers!