Miley And The Mystery Diarrhea

[Guest ravenchilde]

Hello everyone;

 

I've been reading lots of info on this site and thought I would post about my little girl, Miley. She's two years old, retired from Florida and Kansas, and now living in Canada with my husband and I and our 6 year old cat. We've had her since October 2010, so not very long, but we're in love with her anyways. Miley is a very confident grey, is very bouncy and goofy and is just a pleasure. She crates well, is very polite to our cat, and a quick learner - she can sit, lay down, stay, and shake both paws. Can you tell that we're proud parents?

 

Anyways, the problem was somewhat apparent when we first got her. She had a fairly bad ear infection in her left ear (cleared up quickly with drops) and lots of soft stools and several bowel movements per day. She was also incredibly gassy - would almost make you want to jump out a moving vehicle just to get away from the smell. However, we chalked it up to her long trip from the USA to Canada and the transition from living on the track to home life. However, in December, there was a marked difference in her behavior - she seemed lethargic, she was losing a lot of fur (she has a bare bum, tummy, and neck - but was losing even more fur then that) and her soft stool turned into explosive diarrhea (almost as if a tap were turned on full blast - very nasty stuff). So, the "she's just adjusting" argument went out the window, and we began a very long process of diagnostics to figure out what was wrong.

 

Mid December - fecal float and smear and CBC panel with thyroid specific test = diagnosis: Hookworm infection, clostridia infection, campylobactor infection. No abnormal thyroid levels in bloodwork, so hookworms were offered as the main reason for the lethargy, hair loss, and diarrhea. Treatment - 10 days Metronidazole @ 500mg twice daily, and 3 days of Panacur. This did help, mostly, although, the bowel movements were still extremely soft.

 

Early January - continued diarrhea - another fecal float and smear = diagnosis: campylobactor infection. No hookworms, no clostridia infection. Treatment - 5 days of erythromycin @ 333mg twice daily and probiotics to help repopulate good bacteria.

 

Late January - Horrible diarrhea explosion in crate, with multiple bouts of diarrhea with yelping/straining and profuse vomiting. 24hrs emerg vet visit - diagnosis: hookwork infection, clostridia perfringens enterotoxin. treatment - 15 days Metronidazole @ 500 mg twice daily, Amoxicillian twice daily, probiotics, sucralfate, antacid, panacur x 5 days, and interceptor.

 

Mid February - Bloody diarrhea - fecal float and smear, PCR, and culture - treatment - as results take a few days, Metronidazole @ 500mg twice daily. Results came back negative for everything. No hookworms, no clostridia, no campy. Therefore, Metronidazole was stopped. Added in Lopatol for precautionary deworming - we didn't believe that she would be rid of all of her hookworms since it came back the last time we dewormed her.

 

This Wednesday - continued diarrhea - since previous fecal exam showed no parasites/infection, vet decided to check for pancreatitis or pancreatic insufficiency and ran a regular CBC - results all came back in normal ranges. HOWEVER, when I asked for Metronidazole, it was given and within 24 hours, stools had firmed up nicely, as they always do when Metronidazole is administered.

 

I should also mention that we've moved from a chicken diet, to an all fish diet, and then back to the chicken, with no difference in bowel consistency. Food allergy has been relatively ruled out, but this is still something we are considering. We're also deworming every two weeks for two months, and then every month after that for 6 months to rule out hookworms.

 

Soooooooo...anybody have any suggestions/similar stories/hints/tips? Looking to try anything that will help this wonderful dog! We're taking her for an ultrasound this Monday - possible diagnosis: IBS or IBD.

 

Thanks for any advice.

[4My2Greys]

Give her a tsp of 15+ Manuka honey before meals. I have been using the Y.S. Organic Bee Farms brand with good results for situations such as this. You can buy it from Vitacost.com. Of course you can always look at your local health food store for Manuka honey. Just make sure it has a rating of 15 or 16. I would try that before any more diet changes.

[Guest pologal]

Hello!

 

My GH, Roger, (3yrs old) has IBD. He was diagnosed late last year after a biopsy was done on his intestinal tract.

 

He was retuned previously due to pooping and anxiety issues. We were informed that in his former home, he soiled his crate almost daily. He also ate everything in sight - toys, people food, gloves, etc. We adopted him with the thought that he just had anxiety issues. We thought he was a good fit for us - no kids, clean house (nothing laying about to eat) and another GH for friend/company. The pooping continued. He soiled his crate almost daily. We thought maybe he just did not like the crate and gave him free run of the LR/KIT and the pooping decreased dramatically. But it started up again full force about 2 months after letting him live in the LR/KIT. His stools would be very dark and mushy. He got into a habit of eating the accidents in the house (when we were gone) to "hide" them. He also lost a lot of weight and became very lethargic (he looked like a walking skeleton for awhile).

 

The 1st vet we went to decided there was nothing wrong with him and said his issue was behavioral. Roger would eat anything in sight when outdoors - dirt, flowers, twirlies, etc you name it - he ate it. We wanted more tests and after pushing, he finally figured out that my boy has IBD. He was started on prednesone and Purena EN food. This combo did not work. The poo was still the same and now he was peeing every 3 hours. The vet basically said he did not know what else to try and he "would get back to me."

 

About 2 weeks later,without a word from this vet, I went to a different and highly recommended vet. She was AWSOME. She did some tests, dewormed him, started probiotics (1 month worth), and added metronidizal (spelling?). We slowly cut back on the pred. MIRACLE. All he needed was the metronidizal and the Purena EN. He is doing super good now, but I still have to muzzle him when he goes outside so he doesnt eat rabbit poo, dog poo or anything else. If he does we then have an IBD accident to look forward to.

 

Whew. That is my story.

 

I know there are all levels of severity of IBD/IBS. If the metronidizal works then SUPER. That is a very safe drug for long term use (so says my vet). I also know other GH people that have the same issues with their dog and they treat the IBD with different types of steroids and some do organic or raw diets. I know the processed dog foods are not the best, but it works for Roger. After the treatment of the food/rx combo kicked in, I saw a definite improvement. Weight gain and attitude/personality came back...

 

Good luck to you! I wish the best for you.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this! We had very similar problems with Kelly last year. Five weeks after we adopted him, he started with what we thought was a tummy upset. It didn't get better and eventually he was found to have a HUGE parasite infestation - roundworm and (we think, although they didn't show up on the fecal; they don't always) hooks too. However even after worming he continued to get sicker and sicker, and like pologal the vet we were with at the time was utterly useless, insisting he had allergies etc.

 

Finally we switched vets (also without telling our old one!) and our new vet (who is GREYT) found he had IBD and a bacterial imbalance due to the damage the parasites had caused to his GI tract. This is what we did:

 

First, we switched him to a home-cooked diet of chicken and rice which he is still on today. He does not have an intolerance to a specific protein or grain - rather, he seems to be unable to digest ANY sort of manufactured dog food. We're not sure what it is he can't handle but as he is okay on his hoome-cooked diet, did not bother doing any tests to try and find out. Instead, he gets a complete multi-vitamin and mineral supplement and fish oil (which is a reccommended supplement for IBD dogs IF they can tolerate it). He regained all his lost weight on this food and his coat is fantastically soft and shiny - as an added bonus, he's gone from being a picky eater to a total food hound! I'm not saying your girl would need to be on a home-cooked diet forever (Kelly's a bit of a special case we reckon!), but are you able to give her one for a while, so her GI tract doesn't have to work as hard to digest food while it's healing?

 

At the same time our vet put him on prednisone and an antibiotic, Oxytetracycline (I think because here in the UK it's the one most commonly used for SIBO, whereas in the US it's Flagyl/Metronidazole). After a month or so he started to recover so we decided NOT to do a biopsy because I didn't want to put him through it, although if his condition hadn't improved I would have done. He hasn't had an ultrasound either but he did have an absorption blood test, which showed the damage to his GI tract is mainly in his small intestine. We also wormed for 6 months but have now gone back to a 3-monthly schedule.

 

Altogether, he was on the pred for 10 months - we finally got him off it in January after having to wean him off it extremely slowly. If your girl has to go on pred, as well as the listed side effects (drinking and peeing more) it can cause a potassium deficiency, especially if the dog has had diarrhea for a while and has lost electrolytes anyway. This caused Kelly to have horrible spasms in his neck and head, which we managed to control by giving him bananas and doggy pedialite. Since we stopped the steroids (touch wood) the spasms have stopped too. This isn't a known side effect but I have heard of many others who've seen it!

 

As for the ABs, it now looks as if he will be on those for life, but he is on 1/3 of the dose he started on and our vet is not worried that it will cause him any harm. She says it's better that he takes the pills and is healthy than comes off them and is sick. Many on here have dogs on long-term, low-dose ABs for similar problems - I think Flagyl and Tylan are commonly used.

 

Obviously this is our own personal experience and the treatment path your girl follows may be different, but I hope it helps/gives you some ideas. Don't hesitate to ask questions if you have any! There are people on here who are very experienced with IBD dogs (much more experienced than me!) and they helped keep me sane when Kelly was really poorly last year.

 

Good luck, and I hope your girl feels better soon.

[greyhead]

This will be fast/short since I need to leave right away. But just to offer sympathy, our Spencer started with hookworm (which took 9 months to diagnose), then wound up with -- in order of discovery -- intestinal malabsorption, a C. perfringens infection, and IBD. He lost 20 lbs. One third of his diet is now raw. Had to go to a novel protein, which was venison. If it is IBD and an immunomodulator is needed, try to use budesonide instead of prednisone. It targets the gut and doesn't have all the weight loss and damaging side effects that pred can have. It costs more but has been worth it for us. And I'll check back in here later when I return home.

 

So sorry you've been through this. Folks like us understand and sympathize entirely! Hugs to you and scritches to Miley.

 

ETA: We dx'd the IBD using ultrasound. That showed most of the problem was in the small intestine, which meant endoscopy couldn't reach it. We opted not to put Spencer through a surgical biopsy, since he was almost 9, had lost so much weight, and we didn't want to put him through it. We've had no reason to regret that decision.

 

Back now. Wanted to add that for the C. perfringens SIBO he had to take 3 a/b's: Simplicef, metronidazole, and clindamycin. IIRC, it took two rounds of each of those to get the job done. It was BAD.

 

Now for the IBD he takes budesonide (1/2 mg), L-glutamine (500 mg), metronidazole (250 mg), and tylosin (1/8 to 1/4 tsp). These dosages vary from zero when he's doing well, to higher amounts when he has a flare. But he was only off the metronidazole and tylosin for two weeks before he had a flare. He has never eliminated the budesonide entirely, but I think that may be an overabundance of caution by his vet. Maybe. The L-glutamine has anti-inflammatory properties and also helps repair the intestinal lining, which is really necessary in dogs with the kinds of hookworm and SIBO histories that our dogs have.

 

I'm assuming they did a C&S for Miley to find out what a/b's would work best on the Clostridium? And I know some vets use pred for IBD just because it's what has most often been done, so that makes THEM feel safe. But I guess our vet is brave, plus she had an IBD dog of her own, so I think we got lucky with the budesonide. It does tend to make them lose fur, which may be a consideration in a cold climate; but that has to be better than losing weight, even so!

 

Feel free to ask more questions of us if you have any. And please do let us know how the ultrasound goes! And welcome to Greytalk, a greyt place for proud GH parents.

Edited March 5, 2011 by greyhead

[Batmom]

What is she eating? Commercial food or homecooked? If commercial, brands you've tried?

[kudzu]

So sorry you are going down this road. Very hard for your hound & you. Our story is not quite as bad. My Grey was negative for parasites but still went through rounds of colitis & one time gastroenteritis & colitis. Metronidazole would knock it back only to have it return later. I already knew she was sensitive to wheat & that some foods with higher levels of grains made her gassy. Home cooking is not a logical or practical feasibility here. I'd do it if I had to but when I finally found a grain free food lower in protein & fat than Evo I gave it a shot. After starting Wellness Core & then later switching to Taste of the Wild because it was far more readily available, we've not had "Attack of the -Itis" since.

 

A prior dog did have GI motility problems. He went through a few episodes of bactirial overgrowth. The treatment for SIBO, B12 injections & Tylan, set him straight & I always kept Tylan in the house after that. Anything that can through off the GI tracts functioning it seems can foster an environment allowing bacterial overgrowth. Or so it seemed to me when reading up on the problem. You may take care of the cause of the original GI problems only to be left with a bacterial overgrowth problem.

 

Hope your pups problem can be as easy as my Grey's switch to grain free. I think I am quite blessed our trouble was solved so easily.

[Guest ravenchilde]

Thank you to everyone who has posted about their greys and posted their welcomes and well wishes. It's nice to know that we're not the only ones dealing with this problem. I just hate knowing that my girl is so sick and I'm totally powerless to help. Thank goodness we bought vet insurance for her!

 

4my2greys: We've done a lot of reading about Manuka Honey and we're ready to give it a try! Did you have your grey on a specific diet that worked in conjunction with the Manuka Honey? How did you get your grey to eat the honey? Did you put it on a cracker or bread?

 

pologal: Your Roger sounds remarkably similar to Miley. Especially when the metronidazole + probiotics duo seems to firm things up dramatically. Is Roger on Metronidazole for life? And if yes, what dosage? How much does Roger weigh? Miley also ate her feces when she soiled her crate, which is rather disgusting, particularly since she would vomit it up later. I'm glad to hear he's doing better though! That gives me hope!

 

Stripeyfan: The same thing happened to us! Dewormer and Metronidazole and now...the vet claims that nothing is wrong or at best, it's a food allergy! Which is why we're going to see a specialist. We haven't tried a home-cooked diet yet. Can you let me know how you prepare your food? And how much do you give your guy? Miley is always VERY hungry, and she would eat forever if we let her. She hasn't been on Pred yet, and hopefully we can avoid it by going on low maintenance doses of Metronidazole. Not that I'm happy about that either, but like you said, it's better than her having constant diarrhea and hydration issues, right? I also cannot keep food on her bones, so that is also a concern of mine. Have you tried a raw diet? If yes, did it make a difference in comparison to home-cooked?

 

greyhead: OMG, poor Spencer. I've heard that those hook worm eggs are sometimes tough to find? Was it just not showing up on the fecal analysis or was the vet looking elsewhere for the problem? Sounds very similar to Miley too, with the C. perfringens enterotoxin, but doesn't sound like she was as sick as Spencer - the one round of Metronidazole+Amoxicillan+Sucralfate+Antacid combo seemed to do the trick, except it really took a lot out of her. She was very depressed and lethargic during treatment. L-glutamine you say? Where do you obtain this? Is it something my vet should prescribe? Yes, they did culture her stool, but the seriously frustrating part about that was that nothing grew! So, they were not able to provide a specific AB that would clear up her symptoms. Sigh...

 

Batmom: Miley had been eating a commercial diet. We had her on Acana's Pacifica for a long while, which is a no-grain food. We've only had for her 5 months, so we haven't tried a lot of foods yet. However, the vet seems to think she's now allergic to the Acana Pacifica, and they've put her on a really crappy prescription diet: Medi-cal Gastro. It's a chicken based food and it's really bad food, and we intend on switching her onto something better, but we're just trying to keep her stable for the time being. But it doesn't seem to matter, Chicken or Fish, Grain-free or not, her symptoms are the same. Do you have a suggestion on what type of food to feed?

 

kudzu: Grain free is what we had her on with the Acana Pacifica. Since she seems symptomatic on grain-free and grain fed foods, I'm not sure if that will be our easy answer. So confusing! I read that Tylan is difficult to administer. Do you find it problematic? Have you tried Metronidazole before? If yes, does the Tylan have the same effectiveness?

 

Whew... that was a long one. Thanks everyone for your posts - we've been feeling lost on what to do with Miley. We've paid thousands of dollars to the vet who just seems to tell me "nothing is wrong" and just to wait for things to progress, which is rather frustrating when obviously something is wrong! Hopefully the specialist will help us tomorrow. Thanks again for all of your comments - I look forward to hearing more of your stories!

[greyhead]

pologal: Your Roger sounds remarkably similar to Miley. Especially when the metronidazole + probiotics duo seems to firm things up dramatically. Is Roger on Metronidazole for life? And if yes, what dosage? How much does Roger weigh? Miley also ate her feces when she soiled her crate, which is rather disgusting, particularly since she would vomit it up later. I'm glad to hear he's doing better though! That gives me hope!

 

Stripeyfan: Miley is always VERY hungry, and she would eat forever if we let her.

 

greyhead: OMG, poor Spencer. I've heard that those hook worm eggs are sometimes tough to find? Was it just not showing up on the fecal analysis or was the vet looking elsewhere for the problem? Sounds very similar to Miley too, with the C. perfringens enterotoxin, but doesn't sound like she was as sick as Spencer - the one round of Metronidazole+Amoxicillan+Sucralfate+Antacid combo seemed to do the trick, except it really took a lot out of her. She was very depressed and lethargic during treatment. L-glutamine you say? Where do you obtain this? Is it something my vet should prescribe? Yes, they did culture her stool, but the seriously frustrating part about that was that nothing grew! So, they were not able to provide a specific AB that would clear up her symptoms.

Just replying to the things above, eating poop in Miley's case is probably evidence of intestinal malabsorption, the cure for which is B-12 subcutaneous injections you can give very cheaply at home. Do NOT let anyone tell you that she's just eating poop because dogs to that for fun! The specialist can tell you about the test for this, but I'd take home the B-12 after the blood is drawn for the test and start right away. Her ravenous hunger is also evidence that her gut is not able to process all the nutrients from the food she's eating.

 

In Spencer's case, two fecals were done and were negative. Nobody told me that a negative fecal doesn't mean much, since the worms may just not be shedding eggs when the sample is taken. If I'd known that, I would have kept testing. The second vet, to whom we were referred, said his gut rumbling was probably "emotional." I knew Spencer well enough at four months with us to know that wasn't it! The third vet has an expensive set-up that spins the sample before it's floated, which is more likely to find eggs if they are there. By then, though, he was "loaded" with hookworm, so they weren't hard to find. Spencer had been coughing up eggs from his lungs and recirculating them to the gut. Which brings me to the fact that hookworms migrate through the body and just hang out, sometime in cysts until they feel like hatching. So a case of hookworm that goes untreated for too long becomes pretty much permanent, and lifetime treatment is needed, which we accomplish with monthly Interceptor and biannual Drontal.

 

A final caution I want to make is not to go through too many kinds of proteins when looking for foods that work. If Miley has or develops IBD, you'll need an affordable protein that is novel to her and that you can feed maybe the rest of her life. When IBD is still untreated, the body develops an inflammatory response to pretty much anything they eat, and that inflammatory response to those things remains even after treatment in most bad cases. We tried so many things before getting the IBD diagnosis that we were left with venison for a novel protein, and the raw venison we get costs twice as much as any of the other varieties offered by Primal Pet. If venison ever stops working for him, kangaroo is about the only thing left, and the only source I know of for that mixes it with white rice, which he has never been able to digest. Well, either that, or I could let him hunt squirrels in the back yard!

 

Good luck with the specialist tomorrow! I know this process is expensive, frustrating, and frightening. But most of us find it very gratifying when we are able to find the right vet(s), the right meds, the right food, and save our dogs for many more years of loving companionship!

Edited March 6, 2011 by greyhead

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Stripeyfan: The same thing happened to us! Dewormer and Metronidazole and now...the vet claims that nothing is wrong or at best, it's a food allergy! Which is why we're going to see a specialist. We haven't tried a home-cooked diet yet. Can you let me know how you prepare your food? And how much do you give your guy? Miley is always VERY hungry, and she would eat forever if we let her. She hasn't been on Pred yet, and hopefully we can avoid it by going on low maintenance doses of Metronidazole. Not that I'm happy about that either, but like you said, it's better than her having constant diarrhea and hydration issues, right? I also cannot keep food on her bones, so that is also a concern of mine. Have you tried a raw diet? If yes, did it make a difference in comparison to home-cooked?

 

Hi ravenchilde,

 

Glad you are seeing a specialist! I believe if we had not changed vets and finally got taken seriously, we wouldn't have a dog any more. The one we have now really listens to us. We have also spent less money there and been for fewer visits, even though we've been with them much longer than the old vet. Like you say, thank doG for pet insurance!

 

Kelly has boiled chicken and white rice, as white is low in fibre, which is recommended for small intestinal problems (I researched malabsorption diets for people, and adapted what I found out). I boil the rice for about 40 mins to an hour so it's super-mushy and has absorbed most of the water, and don't drain it. Once the rice has cooled the starch that's left forms a kind of jelly that's very soothing on the stomach. As for the chicken, again, I boil it. About 30 mins usually does it; then I let it cool and shred it. At the moment I'm cooking daily because Kelly's just had a flare-up and if it starts again, we'll have to fast him for a day so I don't want to waste food. However when he's stable I cook enough for a couple of days at a time. The chicken freezes well, too, so you can make even more if you want (the rice doesn't, however - it goes rubbery and horrible!). For treats we use chicken, and Kelly can also eat bananas.

 

Amounts-wise you will have to give more than you would if you feed kibble/tinned food. Kelly weighs around 80 lbs and needs 5 mugs of rice daily and 2.5 mugs of chicken to maintain this. (This is a carb/protein ration of 2 thirds to 1 third, as recommended in Patricia Schenk's book on home-prepared dog and cat diets.) If your girl needs to gain weight increase the amounts you're feeding by 1/2 a mug every few days until you find an amount she starts to gain on - last year we were having to feed Kelly about 9 cups of food a day to get his weight back up. We split his food into 3 feeds as smaller meals are easier for him to digest, so he gets 2 mugs of rice/1 mug of chicken for breakfast and his evening meal, and a 'lunch' of 1 mug of rice/half a mug of chicken. The lunch also means he can have a probiotic as he gets his ABs with his morning/evening meals. And he gets a complete multi-vitamin and mineral supplement, too - VITAL if you're going to do home-cooked long term.

 

Of course your girl may not be able to tolerate chicken or rice, but there are many alternatives such as potato, quinoa, white fish, ground beef etc. Weirdly, Kelly has never had any problems with chicken/rice when I cook for him, yet when our old vet prescribed a chicken/rice food, it nearly killed him. So for him it's clearly not a sensitivity to the protein/carb, but something else that seems to be in all dog food. FWIW, Nylabones and dog toothpaste also set him off! If your girl is the same on every food you try, she may have a similar problem.

 

We have not tried a raw diet and are not going to because the vet we have now thinks Kelly has a weakened immune system, which may be why he had the parasites so badly in the first place. He's caught and ate mice in the garden with no ill effects, though! Interestingly his IBD does not appear to be due to an auto-immune disorder and he never needed an immunosuppressant dose of pred, only an anti-inflammatory one (much lower). Glad to hear you may not need the pred at-all!

 

Whew, this has turned into quite an essay - sorry. I hope it makes sense and some of it is useful to you. We are all thinking of your girl and hopes she gets better quickly. IBD is a very scary disease, and very frustrating to treat, but it can be done!

Edited March 7, 2011 by Stripeyfan

[Guest ravenchilde]

Back home from the ultrasound - vet thinks possible IBD, but didn't want to biopsy just yet. Since Miley is so young, she wants to see if 3-6 months of Metronidazole with a high fiber food will restore her intestinal tract. If she doesn't continue to do well on Metro, we'll try something new.

 

I worry so much about her - she's so gassy and skinny, I just hope that she'll get better soon.

[greyhead]

I hope so too, bless her heart. Hugs to both of you!

[KF_in_Georgia]

If Miley needs additional fiber, try Fiber Choice fiber supplements (for people). (And there's an inexpensive WalMart equivalent to this, too.) My guys get the "straight" Fiber Choice--not the extra calcium or antioxidants or anything like that.

 

Most of the human-grade fiber supplements (like Metamucil) insist on 8 oz of water with the supplement, and warn that insufficient water will cause the supplement to swell, and may cause choking. My 10-year-old Sam, who needs the supplements, is pretty good about drinking water, but I couldn't count on him to drink 8 oz on command. I also worried about the potential for choking since if the risk is there for people with vertical digestive tracts, I figured the danger would be worse for dogs with a horizontal digestive tract.

 

Fiber choice is chewable and doesn't require water. The pills are fruit flavored and sweet-tasting (sorbitol rather than sugar, and not--thank god--Xylitol, which is toxic to dogs). My two dogs eagerly chew a pill (actually, it's like a largish, chalky wafer) every morning and evening. Each wafer is 2 grams of fiber.

 

***

 

If Miley needs probiotics, check out Phillips' Colon Health. It's a small capsule. You can get the same sort of probiotics in Activia yogurt, but I actually dislike the yogurt--a lot--and the capsule is less of a problem (and avoids the potential complication of feeding yogurt to a dog that might be lactose-intolerant). The dog takes one capsule a day, with a meal. One suggestion, though: give probiotics at dinner, not at breakfast. It was causing a bit of an upset stomach for my guys, and my normally neat girl started pooping in the house during the day. As soon as I switched the pills to dinner, the indoor pooping stopped since I was home to take her out when she needed to go. (I'm taking the same fiber and probiotics as the dogs, and I was having some minor cramps from the probiotics--and it hit a few hours after I took the pill in the morning. That's why I recognized the problem when the dogs started having issues.) There's a Phillips' probiotic with fiber, but you'd get less fiber than you'd get taking two Fiber Choice daily.

 

***

 

I got the fiber supplements at Costco--can't remember the price, but it wasn't outrageous. The Phillips' at Costco was about $28 for 90 capsules. Since both dogs and I are taking the Phillips', a 90-capsule bottle will last us 30 days. I started taking both supplements about 48 hours before I started giving them to the dogs so I'd be able to judge how the supplements acted on me and make timely adjustments to when the dogs got supplements--and how much they got. I'm fine on the supplements, and they seem to be helping both dogs. We've been taking them for about 3 weeks.

 

***

 

Sam has taken Tylan/Tylosin a couple of times, for two to three weeks at a time. I'm not impressed with the Tylan, but I think other people have had better luck. The main problem with Tylan is that it tastes absolutely horrendous--massively nasty--bad enough to make your dog stop eating something he normally likes if there's any trace of the Tylan taste. If a dog has to be on Tylan for a long time, it would be worth getting empty capsules and making up capsules with the right dosage. For shorter-term use, get thin-sliced, deli-style lunchmeat. Put the powder inside a slice, roll it tightly closed, and pop it in your dog's mouth. With luck, your dog will gulp down the meat without biting into it.

 

***

 

Finally, if Miley needs to go on a home-cooked diet, talk to your vet about what vitamins/minerals you need for a supplement. My vet said that if I start cooking for Sam, I need one protein, one carb, and a Flintstones chewable. That would be the safest way to avoid whatever additives dog food manufacturers might put in--additives that Sam might have trouble with.

[Batmom]

she's so gassy and skinny,

 

If she doesn't start improving, it wouldn't hurt to check her for pancreatic insufficiency.

 

Sending prayers.

[Remolacha]

You have gotten some great answers, so I won't repeat I did want to add that Fletcher has IBD, early symptoms (pre-diagnosis) very like Mileys. Through trial and error I discovered that he can eat any type of animal protein with out problems, but can not handle vegetables and most fruits . So, don't just assume "novel protein" will work. This pretty much eliminates any commercial food. I started him on raw a few months after he turned 2, and today is his 9th birthday . Once I figured out his triggers, he rarely even needs meds. You may be able to find a commercial food that works, or you may have to go to raw or home cooked. Good luck!

[Guest ravenchilde]

Wow! Thanks again to the new posters - KF_in_Georgia, Batmom and Remolacha!

 

KF_in_Georgia: Wow! Lots of great stuff in there. Sounds like you've got this thing down pat. I feel like I'm scrambling just to keep Miley stable, so it's good to know that once we get there, there is lots of great tips on keeping her there. Since Sam doesn't really like Tylan, do you often use Metronidazole? Or do you manage the IBD with diet only?

 

Batmom: Our vet checked for pancreatic insufficiency with some very specific blood tests and it was ruled out as a problem, as her pancreas appears to be working in normal parameters. When Miley was ultra-sounded, the stenographer confirmed that her pancreas looked good. I was so worried that it was her pancreas when my Vet told me that's what our next test should be, and was 1000% relieved to hear it was okay.

 

Remolacha: I'm thinking if we cannot get a kibble to work than we'll need to go onto raw. But, what amazing results with diet only! I can only hope that Miley's problem is managed with diet only.

 

Thanks for all your comments and prayers. It's been a really hard go for our first dog. But I'm happy to hear success stories - it makes me hopeful.

[KF_in_Georgia]

At present, Sam's still eating his regular dog food (Eukanuba Naturally Wild, venison and potato formula). That, with the fiber and probiotics, is all he's been getting for the past several weeks and there have been no diarrhea episodes. His weight has stabilized (he might even have regained a couple of lost pounds--or else the vet recalibrated the scales). When I think he's looking too skinny, I give him a little extra of his regular kibble. I don't want to fool around with fatten-him-up foods that might cause more trouble.

 

My vet doesn't want to give Sam metronidazole any more. There can be complications in dogs that take high doses over extended periods. Since Sam has had to be on metronidazole several times in his eight-plus years with me, the vet doesn't want to prescribe it for him any more. The danger is something called metronidazole toxicity. My vet has seen it in a few other dogs and he worries about Sam developing problems. If Sam should develop diarrhea again and need meds, I don't know what we'll try. Tylan has not been very effective for Sam, but metronidazole may be dangerous. We'll just have to judge which is more dangerous at the time--the diarrhea or the drugs.

 

When I told Sam's vet that the last course of tylan didn't do any good, the vet said to stop it cold turkey and see if that made any difference. That way we'd know whether it really had been ineffective. I stopped cold turkey...and nothing happened. Two days after I stopped it, I started the dogs on Fiber Choice. A couple of days after that, I started the probiotics. We've been good since then. I don't let Sam eat things he shouldn't, and I try to keep him from getting stressed (he's not fond of car rides). His appetite is wonderful, and his behavior is...grade A crazy, but that's Sam-normal.