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Creatinine And Bun Levels


Josie
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So we went to the vet this week for Tuffy follow-up.

He is on deramax and dextab for his arthritis.

The vet was really happy that it is going realy good! Tuffy has a lot less pain now! it's a real diffence form a few months back! :)

more active and more playfull, eats good and is happy.

 

but...

 

we did a blood test. (No urine test was done)

 

Tuffy creatinine and BUN are high...

 

THE VALUES ARE NOT IN "AMERICAIN" VALUES BUT INTERNATIONAL VALUES!

 

creatinine 265 umol

BUN 16.8 mmol

 

since it's going better the vet cut the medication a little, 4 days a week 1/2 a deramx and 5 times a week 1 dextab (.25mg)

 

we have an appointment in 1 month to do a other blood work.

 

what do you think???

I'm so worried :unsure

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
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"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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I don't know the conversion so I don't know if those numbers are high or "greyhound high", however, if the BUN:creatinine ratio is normal, then she should be OK.


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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I think it can be convert like this, BUT I'm not sure of this, anyone can help?

I'm not a lab tech or a chemist :blush

 

creatinine 265 umol equals 2.9?

BUN 16.8 mmol equals 6?

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
Tuffy greyhound-data
Otis greyhound-data Abbey greyhound-data
"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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If your calculations are correct, then the BUN is on the low end of normal and the creatinine a little high. .5-1.6 is the "normal" dog ref range, but my boy routinely runs between 1.7 and 2.0. At any rate, you may refer your vet to the OSU website - they have the values posted there (using whatever units we use in the States).


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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Hm. I'm no chemist by any stretch of the imagination, but the online calculations I'm finding have the conversion as being about 2.9 for creatinine and BUN at 47, so yes, both would be high, even for a greyhound.

 

"Normal" dog BUN range is 6-31.

 

Maybe TinyMityMo will see this - she works with blood for a living and she can give accurate conversions.

Edited by turbotaina


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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does anyone knows in what units are the USA blood values I see everywhere?

"Normal" dog BUN range is 6-31... but it,s 6 to 31 WHAT?

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
Tuffy greyhound-data
Otis greyhound-data Abbey greyhound-data
"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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I found this:

 

Wikipedia

 

BUN is reported as mg/dL in the United States and in Italy. Elsewhere, the concentration of urea is reported as mmol/L. To convert from mg/dL of blood urea nitrogen to mmol/L of urea, divide by 2.8 (each molecule of urea having 2 nitrogens, each of molar mass 14g/mol)

 

Urea (in mmol/L) = BUN (in mg/dL of nitrogen) / 2.8 convert BUN to urea in mg/dL by using following formula: Urea= BUN*2.14 MW of urea =60 urea nitrogen : 28 = 60/28

 

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I found this:

 

Wikipedia

 

BUN is reported as mg/dL in the United States and in Italy. Elsewhere, the concentration of urea is reported as mmol/L. To convert from mg/dL of blood urea nitrogen to mmol/L of urea, divide by 2.8 (each molecule of urea having 2 nitrogens, each of molar mass 14g/mol)

 

Urea (in mmol/L) = BUN (in mg/dL of nitrogen) / 2.8 convert BUN to urea in mg/dL by using following formula: Urea= BUN*2.14 MW of urea =60 urea nitrogen : 28 = 60/28

 

 

 

thanks

and the creatinine? is it in mg/dl too?

:blink:

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
Tuffy greyhound-data
Otis greyhound-data Abbey greyhound-data
"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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does anyone knows in what units are the USA blood values I see everywhere?

"Normal" dog BUN range is 6-31... but it,s 6 to 31 WHAT?

 

6-31mg/dL But Diane already posted that. Sorry for the confusion.

 

The units are referred to as "conventional" as opposed to "standard". Apparently, the US and Italy uses conventional units and the rest of the world uses standard.

 

thanks

and the creatinine? is it in mg/dl too?

:blink:

 

 

Yes.

 

And this is what I used to convert: Conversion Calculator


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

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From Wikipedia too:

 

In the United States, creatinine is typically reported in mg/dL, whereas, in Canada and a few European countries, μmol/litre may be used. 1 mg/dL of creatinine is 88.4 μmol/L.

 

The typical human reference ranges for serum creatinine are 0.5 to 1.0 mg/dL (about 45-90 μmol/L) for women and 0.7 to 1.2 mg/dL (60-110 μmol/L) for men. While a baseline serum creatinine of 2.0 mg/dL (150 μmol/L) may indicate normal kidney function in a male body builder, a serum creatinine of 1.2 mg/dL (110 μmol/L) can indicate significant renal disease in an elderly female.[citation needed] for male reference range are 60-120 micromol/L and for female it is 50-110 micremol/L (Ref: Australian Medicine Handbook)

 

Diane & The Senior Gang

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I hate conversion!

so if I get this right:

 

creatinine (265 umol divided by 88.4 makes) 2.99

BUN (16.8 mmol multiply by 2.8 makes)47

 

:blink:

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
Tuffy greyhound-data
Otis greyhound-data Abbey greyhound-data
"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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found on the net:

***

Depending on the lab's normal range, other breeds have a high of about 1.2 to 1.4 for their creatinine level, Greyhounds can normally run up to 2.1 (some say to 2.4) before it's considered to be possibly abnormal. If there is any doubt, run a second test on the urine called a specific gravity to help distinguish true kidney failure from a normal value. A specific gravity in the 1.008 to 1.012 range combined with a truly elevated creatinine requires further testing. BUN's can also run a little above other breed's normal.

***

 

my question is: is this a reversable sitation and waht can I do to make it better?

we will slowly decrease the deramax and try to go on other thing... like tremadol...

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Our first greyhound, Tuffy: You will always be there with us my angel!
Tuffy greyhound-data
Otis greyhound-data Abbey greyhound-data
"When you open your minds to the impossible, sometimes you find the truth." W.Bishop

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A friend just went through something very similar (rising Creatinine) and took a chance on Dr. Feeman, sending him an email to which he replied:

 

1. It is VERY common for Greyhounds to have elevated creatinine levels and have normal kidney function... it is a breed idiosyncrasy. You should print the article I attached above and share it with your vet. This was published in a veterinary peer reviewed journal 7 years ago. The BUN levels that you listed all would have been read as "normal" at our reference lab so you seem to have a high creatinine and a normal to high normal BUN.

 

 

2. Before you will see elevations in BUN or creatinine a dog has to lose 75% of their kidney function. BEFORE that though if a dog loses 66% of their kidney function they lose the ability to concentrate their urine. Therefore, if a dog can show an ability to concentrate their urine you know that they must have at least 34% kidney function left which immediately tells you that an elevated creatinine can NOT be from kidney disease in this patient but for the creatinine to be elevated the dog would need to have less than 25% kidney function.

3. ALWAYS try to check the urine specific gravity (aka urine concentration) on the first urine in the AM. That sample tends to be the most concentrated of the day b/c most dogs don't drink a lot overnight. A diluted urine sample CANNOT rule kidney disease in (if you or I drink a lot of water we will have dilute urine but that doesn't mean that we have kidney disease). A concentrated urine sample DOES RULE OUT kidney disease (at least in the classic sense). I would accept a urine specific gravity of 1.026 as ruling out kidney disease to me. (ETA: the SG of 1.026 was for the greyhound about which Dr. Feeman was contacted only and is not a blanket statement for all.)

https://greyhound.osu.edu/

 

Article referred to in item# 1: If you would like to read it, email or PM me and I will send it to you.

 

THANK YOU DR. FEEMAN. ANYONE WHO ANSWERS AN EMAIL AT 12:47 AM IS MY HERO FOR LIFE!

 

FWIW: Have said it many times, after a bout with Acute Renal Failure, my Suze's Creatinine is "normal" at 2.6. All other kidney function test results are well within normal ranges. The subject of Dr. Feeman's email has a "normal" Creatinine of 3.0. These results do not mean that we can "set it and forget it". If nothing else, I am more vigilant now than ever. Suze had a series of blood tests immediately after the ARF to monitor her recovery. One year later, she had the same tests repeated 3 times at 30 day intervals to document her "normal" Creatinine. Urinalysis and SG were done at the same time.

 

Linda, Mom to Fuzz, Barkley, and the felines Miss Kitty, Simon and Joseph.Waiting at The Bridge: Alex, Josh, Harley, Nikki, Beemer, Anna, Frank, Rachel, my heart & soul, Suze and the best boy ever, Dalton.<p>

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There's no need to "slowly decrease Deramaxx." You can just stop giving it. It's just an NSAID.

 

The urine specific gravity is inexpensive and fast--some vets do it right in their office. It's very important to measure that before you get too upset!


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sorry for the delay (Meredith pm'd me about this) but I was locked out of my work computer all afternoon. Yes, the info above is correct. mg/dL for both and 88.4 and 0.357 are the conversion factors (divide your number by these) for creat and BUN. 47 is pretty high for a BUN. Are there other high results indicating a possible dehydration situation?

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  • 10 years later...

Hi all

My greyhound got into a carrot cake friday > Rushed to the er and made to throw up given charcoal  and fluids . We  took him home and monitored him and he is being rechecked daily . His creatine was 2.1  . yesterday 2.2 and today 2.3 . I'm having him rechecked Tuesday . The Dr tonight said his bun was fine. He has had 2.0 creatine since I got him 

 

I'm worried but he is urinating and eating and running about . Any suggestions ?

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I assume the vet was concerned because there were raisins in the cake?  How’s the urine specific gravity?  If the BUN has been stable and the BUN is still close to what is was I would tend not to worry.  He could just be slightly dehydrated (it’s awfully hot out where I’m at).

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