Sam-E Or Milk Thistle

[Guest EmbersDad]

Hero has been diagnosed with epilepsy and his first blood check came back with the pheno levels right in the middle of the "theraputic range" so thats good. he has not had any seizures since the 3 he had a couple weeks ago. i asked the vet about using milk thistle to help protect his liver. she said it was ok, but it may cause the phenobarbitol levels to increase in the blood and he may need an adjustment in his dosage. she also suggested sam-e as an alternative. any seizure hounds use it here? FWIW Hero is taking 97.2 mg pheno twice a day.

[duncan41]

Interesting, because a friend's greyhound has been recently diagnosed with epilepsy and the Vet recommended Denamarin which is a combination of the milk thistle extract silymarin and Sam-E. First blood test came back perfect!

[TheFullHouse]

I've used Milk Thistle and it's never affected Saint's levels. Same-e is just as good. I hope you have as much success as we have, Saint will be 10 in February and has been on pheno since the age of 3 and his liver enzymes are perfect.

[greypuppyluv]

Phaelin uses both milk thistle and Sam-e. There is a big difference in price between the two. I can get 2 bottles (if they are on sale, 2-for-1) of the milk thistle for around $10 total. There are 60 pills in each bottle and I give Phaelin 1 pill each day. The Sam-e costs $39.89 at Costo for 90 tablets (1 box) and I give Phaelin 2 tablets each day, so 1 box lasts 45 days). The milk thistle is way cheaper than the Sam-e, but Phaelin's neuro wanted me to put him on both, so I did since his pheno levels were too high. I just took him in on Saturday for his pre and post prandial bile acids test (I think that's what it was called ) and I'm waiting for the results, so we'll see how much the milk thistle and Sam-e is really helping.

 

I would think that, because of the cost, if you wanted to add something, it would be milk thistle. I didn't add anything to Phaelin's regimen until his pheno levels were high, but many people do hoping to prevent liver damage. If you want more information about adding milk thistle to an epi dog's diet, click here for more info.

[GreyTzu]

Interesting, because a friend's greyhound has been recently diagnosed with epilepsy and the Vet recommended Denamarin which is a combination of the milk thistle extract silymarin and Sam-E. First blood test came back perfect!

 

Yup, this is what I would use. In fact I had Donner on milk thistle and saw no changes in his liver values. Denamarin lowered his numbers.

 

Here is the cheapest prices I have found. 49.14 for a 30 day supply. I ordered from here the last 6 months of Donner's life and was always satisfied with shipping and quality of the products.

[Guest EmbersDad]

I have decided on Milk Thistle for Hero and got some at CVS. They are 240mg capsules and I think the suggested dosage is 200mg? What dosage do you give your hounds. Hero checks in at 71 lbs. Thanks

[TheFullHouse]

Saint takes 1,000 mg. per day but he also weighs 100 lbs.

[duncan41]

You would have to know the amount of bioavailable silymarin in each capsule to get the therapeutic effect. The dosage for large dogs of Denamarin contains 35mg of silybin. The following is from the Denamarin website:

 

"Silybin has low bioavailability.⁸ Denamarin, therefore, has been specially formulated to address this issue. It contains silybin in a complex with soybean phosphatidylcholine, resulting in superior absorption and bioavailability compared to silymarin or silybin administration alone.^8-11 A study in dogs showed plasma silybin levels more than four times higher with administration of a silybin-phosphatidylcholine complex (SPC) than the levels obtained with administration of silymarin alone."

 

I have no clue how to determine the dosage for OTC Milk Thistle. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

[NeylasMom]

For the reason mentioned above, I chose to buy a supplement where the milk thistle is bound to another ingredient that helps increase its bioavailability. I felt the price of the Denamarin was too high for us, but found what I believe is a quality bound supplement made by Thorne called Siliphos. I got it from Health Designs for ~$20 for 60 capsules and found a $5 off coupon online. The dosage is 180 mg and I have read varying recs on how much to give. Most recs would be 1/day at that dosage, but I've chosen to give 2 b/c of our situation.

 

I started a thread on milk thistle just last week, it should be easy to find if you look at the last few pages of H&M or search for milk thistle. You might find some additional helpful info there.

[greyhoundgang]

I've used both Milk Thistle and SamE, but do make sure to read the ingredients. I would give one capsule daily.

I also found this product which I've been recommending when a dog must be on Rimadyl/Deramaxx etc.

Azmira - Skin & Live-A-Plex

 

This herbal extract is a tissue and liver restorative. It protects the liver and kidney from toxins produced by some traditional medicines. It's also indicated for a broad range of dermatological conditions including blackheads, pimples, seborrhea, oily coat and more.

 

Certified Ingredients - Milk Thistle Seed, Fresh yellow dock root, burdock root, echinacea angustifolia & purpurea root, sarsaparilla root, fresh oregon grape root. Grain Alcohol.

 

It's drops. Only $13.95. You put in food, or syringe in mouth. I've been very impressed with their products. Particularly their Inflammation Help - Yucca. Dogs have actually been able to be taken off of the NSAIDs when given the Yucca.

[greypuppyluv]

Phaelin is currently on 240mg once a day (he weighs around 70 pounds), but he was previously on (I think) 200 mg once a day. I couldn't find the 200mg at CVS and the only other one I could find was the 180mg, so I decided to go higher instead of lower so I bought the 240mg.

 

Below is from one of the canine epilepsy websites:

 

Milk Thistle Dosage (from the newsletter "Healthy Pets - Naturally"):

Dog's size

 

Dose as % of adult human dose5 lbs10%5-10 lbs15%11-20 lbs20%21-40 lbs30%41-70 lbs50%71-100 lbs75%100 lbs100%

[NeylasMom]

Phaelin is currently on 240mg once a day (he weighs around 70 pounds), but he was previously on (I think) 200 mg once a day. I couldn't find the 200mg at CVS and the only other one I could find was the 180mg, so I decided to go higher instead of lower so I bought the 240mg.

 

Below is from one of the canine epilepsy websites:

 

Milk Thistle Dosage (from the newsletter "Healthy Pets - Naturally"):

Dog's size

 

Dose as % of adult human dose5 lbs10%5-10 lbs15%11-20 lbs20%21-40 lbs30%41-70 lbs50%71-100 lbs75%100 lbs100%

To go along with this, human doses are typically based on a 125 lb person so you can usually figure out the appropriate dose for your dog accordingly. Although I prefer to consult with a vet or find information online about appropriate dog dosages b/c it could be different depending on use, etc. (and also because I'm anal like that).

[greypuppyluv]

Phaelin is currently on 240mg once a day (he weighs around 70 pounds), but he was previously on (I think) 200 mg once a day. I couldn't find the 200mg at CVS and the only other one I could find was the 180mg, so I decided to go higher instead of lower so I bought the 240mg.

 

Below is from one of the canine epilepsy websites:

 

Milk Thistle Dosage (from the newsletter "Healthy Pets - Naturally"):

Dog's size

 

Dose as % of adult human dose

5 lbs10%

5-10 lbs15%

11-20 lbs20%

21-40 lbs30%

41-70 lbs50%

71-100 lbs75%

100 lbs100%

 

To go along with this, human doses are typically based on a 125 lb person so you can usually figure out the appropriate dose for your dog accordingly. Although I prefer to consult with a vet or find information online about appropriate dog dosages b/c it could be different depending on use, etc. (and also because I'm anal like that).

 

I was on vacation when I posted that and I forgot that Phaelin's neuro had also given me a suggested dosage of 200mg. I didn't even think about what human weight the dosage was based on.....I believe Dr. Dodds was quoted as being the person who figured out the above percentages (not sure why they got all screwed up....at least they are on my computer screen.....so I tried to fix them).

 

I learned a long time ago to make sure to check with my vet before adding anything, especially supplements, to my dog's regimen. I had a whippet that had vWD and cancer, and I considered adding a supplement for the cancer, but ended up finding out that it could have interferred with the vWD.