They Really Got Into It Tonight

[3vagreys]

My little Echo has always been a very shy, frightened dog. We got Frosty a couple of years ago and Frosty was always in Echo's face - chasing her out of this crate, off of this bed. They even had a little blowup where Frosty lost the tip of an ear. Some time passed and I finally started to think maybe one would not kill the other but tonight, for no reason apparent to us, they were at each other again. It sounded like a real dog fight. Echo got a little scratch on her shoulder from Frosty but it wasn't a bite, just snagged a tooth on her shoulder. Now they're nervous wrecks, I'm a nervous wreck. I'm ready to lock them in their crates permently.

[TheFullHouse]

They can get into it and it can get pretty intense pretty quickly. The one thing I don't allow around here is for one dog to bully another. If someone tries to get a dog off a bed just because they want it, I make them go elsewhere and find another bed. Sometimes humans just have to step in between pups, especially if one is being bullied because the victim of the bully will eventually have enough and fight back because they have no choice. If it were me, I would not allow Frosty to get in Echo's face and push her around, I'd step in and step up for Echo. Once you do this Frosty may knock it off because she knows you're not going to allow it.

[3vagreys]

That's what I try to do sometimes but I worry that Frosty may get jealous when I take up for Echo and it may be worse next time.

[TheFullHouse]

I don't think dogs think that way. I've had to do it here with 3 of mine so far and it worked perfectly. My bossy greyhounds learned that mom was going to step in if they got ugly and it all stopped. I can honestly say I haven't heard cross words around here in 2 years or more. My pack is very stable and most of them have learned to play nicely with everyone, including our JRT Jilly Bean.

[Guest PhillyPups]

They can get into it and it can get pretty intense pretty quickly. The one thing I don't allow around here is for one dog to bully another. If someone tries to get a dog off a bed just because they want it, I make them go elsewhere and find another bed. Sometimes humans just have to step in between pups, especially if one is being bullied because the victim of the bully will eventually have enough and fight back because they have no choice. If it were me, I would not allow Frosty to get in Echo's face and push her around, I'd step in and step up for Echo. Once you do this Frosty may knock it off because she knows you're not going to allow it.

 

Good advice Judy. Having three broodies here I am always vigilant and allow nothing to start.

 

Hope all are okay. I know it can sound really scarey really fast.

[Guest TeddysMom]

JMHO. I think I would muzzle them for awhile even in the house. Now that they got into it and it seems to be escalating in intensity, it might just be safer for both and you will be able to relax a bit.

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

Don't allow the behavior. Nip it in the butt as soon as you start seeing Frosty being a bully.

If there is an explainable reasonable reason for Frosty getting upset that is one thing but if he's just being a bugger. Put a stop to it.

Correct him, use a water bottle, whatever it takes to get him to understand that being a bully is not acceptable. Go easy with the VOG (voice of GOD) as that could easily spook Echo and just reinforce Frosty's bullying.

 

Muzzles are a safe guard but it's not a fix all. It's a band-aide on the real issues and problems that are going on. Yes, they can't tear into each other with their teeth but they can still get into it and cause damage even with muzzles on.

 

Best of luck and I know how scary doggy scuffles can be. Be strong and the head honcho and Frosty will respect that

[Guest LindsaySF]

I agree with muzzling. Then I second Judy's advice.

 

Do you know what caused the most recent fight?

 

Good luck.

[greysmom]

It doesn't really matter what the fight was about. You're the human, you're in charge - not Frosty. By allowing him to constantly bully Echo, you are reinforcing her timid and anxious behavior, and his behavior as a butthead. Whatever it was about, Echo felt threatened enough to bite instead of giving in, and that means she was pushed too far and felt that was the only response she had left.

 

Most dog bites are not by aggressive dogs, but by dogs that are so afraid that they resort to their ultimate defense - their teeth and jaws.

 

Trust me. I have one of each too! I have to be on Toni constantly or she would become a holy terror - she has a strong personailty and is very confident. She thinks the world does, in fact, revolve around her, and that she should have whatever she wants whenever she wants it. She picks on my male who outweighs her by a good 10 pounds. She growls at dogs walking in the next room, stands over them to get their bed, pushes in to get treats and food first, and generally is a total PITA.

 

You also need to build up the confidence of your scared girl. She needs to know she CAN have the bed she wants. She needs to know she CAN win at tug-of-war. She needs to know it's OK for her to go out the door in front of Frosty. She needs to know you will stand up for her when she need you to. She looks to you - or she should be able to look to you - for benevolent and fair leadership. It's your job to advocate for her.

 

It's not about yelling or over-the-top corrections. If Toni is trying to move a dog off a particular bed, I step in and re-direct her to another open one. If she's snarking just to be snarking at one of the others, she gets firmly told to stop and is redirected to another behavior. If she's bullying Copper in the yard, I call her to me and have her do a command - watch me, or one of the others she knows, and she gets rewarded. If she's guarding the couch, she loses her couch priviledges. Her behavior has gotten much better as she's finally figured out I'm more stubborn and more patient than she is, and she's not going to get what she wants by being that way.

 

Frosty will not get jealous if you make him stop bullying Echo. He will, eventually, understand that you're in charge and not him, and that you're the one who determines who does what. He will relax and your home will become a calmer place. But you need to make it that way first.

 

Muzzle them if you need to, to make sure everyone is OK and to give you some space to regroup and decide what to do. Then just do it! Good luck! I'm glad no one was hurt worse than a few scrapes.

[SarahsBlackPack]

I agree with what Judy and Heather have both said. The behavior needs to be stopped. Some times Freddie wants to lay on a certain bed that one of my other hounds is laying on. He will stand over them with his tail curled up and we nip that behavior of his in the buy before something happens.

[GeorgeofNE]

Excellent advice here from some very experienced multi-hound owners!

 

Sounds like the fight was more sound and fury than actual violence, but I would absolutely start trying the things these smart ladies have suggested.

 

Good luck.

[Guest KennelMom]

We don't let one dog be an @$$hole or bully to the other dogs. When a dog does act like that, there are often other behavioral issues with the dog as well.

 

I would also say they weren't really fighting. They had a disagreement, which can happen in a pack. If there was a fight, there would have been blood and gaping wounds. There's one thing dogs know how to do really, really well and that's use their mouth. A lot of ruckus and snarling and snapping can be mostly show and you only end up with incidental wounds. Consider this your first BIG warning that you need to take control of your dogs and step up to be a leader. Lay down some rules and don't tolerate B.S.

 

The next disagreement may be a fight for real.

 

 

I agree with Heather that muzzles are a band-aid. They can be really useful while resolving a problem, but not one I'd want to rely on long term. If dogs have to be muzzled just hanging out in the house, there are some serious issues that aren't being addressed.

Edited August 29, 2010 by KennelMom

[jenn8]

Don't allow the behavior. Nip it in the butt...

 

LOL. Heather, I think the expression is nip it inn the bud". I like your version better though.

 

Jenn

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

Don't allow the behavior. Nip it in the butt...

 

LOL. Heather, I think the expression is nip it inn the bud". I like your version better though.

 

Jenn

I was never good with remembering what expressions or sayings are and well I figured when I was bad someone would swat me in the butt sooooo

Nip it in the butt is what I've always said.

Kinda sad to know I've been wrong all this time but heck, I think mines pretty cute and funny glad you like my version

[3vagreys]

Thanks everybody for your kind advice. My son and I are going to follow it. Frosty has been a real little terror as far as Echo is concerned and we really didn't know what to do. We just figured it was a girl thing.

 

Echo's little skin rip is doing well and in a week or so, she should get over her fear of Frosty (again). In the meantime, we'll work to keep Frosty off her back - literally.

 

By the way, I love 'nip it in the butt'. I saw it and started laughing. It just seems so appropriate when you refer to dogs.