Nico

[RhodyGreys]

Let me preface this by saying:

 

1) Nico has been thoroughly examined by a vet and his inappropriate elimination has no medical cause;

 

2) He does not howl or chew while I am away;

 

3) He can 'hold it' (both pee and poo) for up to 18-24 hours when he refuses to go out in the rain;

 

4) I've had many greyhounds over the last 14 years, but this one has me stumped;

 

5) He has a history of inappropriate elimination (his trainer told me he used to pee on the other dogs in their crates!)...

 

All that being said, I love Nico, and I don't want to do anything drastic (although I swore when I got home from work today that I wanted to kill him!). Nico (Pepi Nick) came to me in October 2008. He had already been in the home of one of his kennel workers for 2 years. Nico will be 8 in November. He is all white (just a little ticking on ears) and has a history of focal seizures (fly snapping) that seem to be closely associated with loud noises/electronics.

 

He has been a sneaky pee-er the whole time he has lived here. Now, even if I just go out to do yard work, I have to belly band him. He will not lift his leg if I am in the house, anywhere, even out of sight. But I am still finding spots from BBB (Before Belly Band) where he peed. He has peed on rugs, the laundry hamper, my bed, cabinets, you name it...so, easiest solution is belly banding when I am outside or away for any reason. He will go weeks with nothing in the belly band pad, but if I forget it once (or my dog help does), pee is guaranteed.

 

Last week or so, it has been poo. I am not 100% sure the poo is from Nico (there are 3 other permanent residents, all girls, and while I can *tell* with pee, I can't with poo! My foster is gated away from the mayhem, so it's not her!), but it seems likely, as the others reliably eliminate outside. Nico is a bit like Ferdinand the Bull when he's outside: easily distracted by the flowers. Nothing has changed in the last week in terms of diet or household composition, but the AC has been on pretty much 24/7: wondering if maybe it's something in the electronics of the ACs, a sound or something?

 

A crate is a poor option, mainly because Nico really hates them and has teeth ground down from biting the wires. Gating him into one area of the house is possible, but I have irregularly-shaped hallways/doorways, so confining him to just the kitchen, for example, where the tile is, would block everyone's access to the living room (where the best AC is...)

 

I have tried the DAP diffuser, with little noticeable result. I have not tried melatonin: Nico was taking benedryl last year for allergies but hasn't really needed it this year. We walk every morning.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Are his seisures being treated with medicine? If so, when was the last time his blood was checked to ensure appropriate level of medicine being used? Has he been treated for worms, not just a fecal test (many times worms can hide very well), but a round of worming med given? Those are the only things I can think of off the top of my head.

[RhodyGreys]

Thanks for your input regarding Nico's output!

 

No seizure meds on board: the fly-biting type of focal seizures are still under some debate as to whether they are, in fact, seizures without the added presence of grand-mal seizures as well (About Fly Bite Seizures).

 

He has been wormed recently, so we can rule that one out too, I think. And that doesn't account for the behavioral pee issues.

[Batmom]

Do you have an idea of about how much he drinks during the day, and when he drinks it? When the vet examined him, did he check for a UTI and run bloodwork? I would check again, and if his bloodwork is good and pee is clean treat him for a UTI anyways. GeorgeOfNE can tell you all about that. Sometimes they test clean and they aren't, and it's worth a try. You probably know, but for the benefit of others reading -- you can't gauge a UTI by behavior, ability to hold it sometimes, smell/appearance of urine, etc. ....... I would also suggest a diary -- when he eats what, when he drinks what (as best you can tell in multidog household and when you aren't there all day), when he eliminates what and where. Sometimes that helps you spot a pattern you're missing. I know there are certain times of day here where I need to take everybody out and make sure they go if I'm going to be yardworking for awhile, and other times of day when they'll be just fine. ........ If you're not sure whose poo it is, start with your most likely suspect and feed that dog only a tablespoon of corn kernels (frozen, fresh, canned, doesn't matter) each meal for a couple meals. Poop accidents but no corn? Give it a good 72 hours after last corn fed before moving on to the next suspect.

[GeorgeofNE]

Do you have an idea of about how much he drinks during the day, and when he drinks it? When the vet examined him, did he check for a UTI and run bloodwork? I would check again, and if his bloodwork is good and pee is clean treat him for a UTI anyways. GeorgeOfNE can tell you all about that. Sometimes they test clean and they aren't, and it's worth a try. You probably know, but for the benefit of others reading -- you can't gauge a UTI by behavior, ability to hold it sometimes, smell/appearance of urine, etc. ....... I would also suggest a diary -- when he eats what, when he drinks what (as best you can tell in multidog household and when you aren't there all day), when he eliminates what and where.

 

[stuff removed to save space]

 

That's us! George of Noo England and me, who spent $2,000 on medical tests his first 9 months home because he kept peeing in the house (only when I wasn't home) only to be told "it's behavorial." I didn't believe it. The "proof," so too speak, was that after the administration of post neuter antibiotics, post dental antibiotics, post skin infection antibiotics--he's stop peeing for a couple of weeks. I tried EVERYTHING behavioral that I could think of. I finally showed my vet my pee journal, and she said, "Hmmmm. I had another greyhound test completely healthy, who couldn't hold it, and we tried a long course of antibiotics, and it worked. Do you want to do that."

 

Sign me up I said!

 

$650 worth of Baytril later (14 weeks), the problem was solved! I must say that about once a year now, something inside him goes haywire--and he'll have a couple of days where he has trouble holding it. Other than that, it's been over 2 years at 99% dry, no belly band any more.

 

Believe me when I tell you, I know EXACTLY what you're feeling right now--you are 100% sure it's not medical. So was I. I got really ticked off at everyone suggesting he be tested for UTI, etc. cause I had clearly stated he had been--five times.

 

And yet, whatever the problem was, 14 weeks of Baytril wiped it out.

 

Our theory is that whatever infection he had--kidney perhaps--had been raging so long, at such a low level, his body had adapted to it and was no longer producing signs of it in his urine. After all, being let out at the track every few hours, who would have known? He was in the same kennel for three years. If he wasn't peeing in his crate, they'd never know he couldn't hold it.

 

He peed in foster care, and was punished for it ("Don't worry," foster mom said, "When he has an accident, I shove his nose in it and yell at him!" as if she was some sort of training genius!--but that's another story!). She never brought it to the group's attention or even contemplated WHY a healthy adult dog couldn't hold it.

 

I tell you my tale only because our situation was similar, and I know for a fact my vet treated another greyhound with the exact same issue successfully with long-term antibiotics.

 

Do with this what you wish!

 

And I feel your frustration--believe me!

Edited July 14, 2010 by GeorgeofNE

[Guest kydie]

O.K. this is far from your pee issue, but, when my boy came he had a right hind leg limp, right off the bat, to the vet we go,,,,,, xrays, CAT scan, lab work, looking for everything and anything, limp got worse and worse repeat vet visits, sooooo, a long time grey person, said,"You know what I had a grey with a deep seated infection in his toe, that nothing showed on, and a long coarse of antibiotics really did the trick" , WHAT? I thought, nothing is indicated in labs, no swelling, no tenderness, so back to the vet, "I want a broad spectrum antibiotic",,,, 6 weeks of antibiotics, and the limp was gone, point here, some times, the oddest things work, just as GeorgeofNE says, don't count anything out, sometimes the dumbest things work!!!

Edited July 14, 2010 by kydie

[TheFullHouse]

I would suggest asking the vet to start him on some phenobarbital. In reading the article, the author basically said they will try phenobarbital and see if it changes anything. It might be worth a try. If he is having seizure activity the inappropriate urination may be a manifestation of that. It would be worth a try in my book.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Worth checking if it's a UTI or even treating it, just based on Susan's experience.

 

Are you sure it's not SA? Sophie has SA and it manifests by her peeing. She's in a dog-proof area (ex-pen) so she doesn't chew anything, and she doesn't howl or cry. Just pees. Can you tape Nico when you leave to watch his behavior?

[dante2zoe]

Sounds like you are playing our song! Goose is very shy and a huge momma's boy. We have had him for 1.5 years. He goes through phases (for lack of a better description) of urinating in the house when I am gone. Like George, we ran countless urine tests and cultures and xrays. I even sent his records to Dr. Couto for his opinion. We tried round after round of different antibiotics, including Baytril (but not a course of 6 weeks). My vet, while not grey-saavy, is grey-familiar and was willing to do whatever I wanted - up to a certain point. Goose would stop during the antibiotics and then start up again. Then, that didn't work either. We tried different confinement options: crate, gated, nothing - with and without other dogs. We even ended up with his over-the-top confident littermate. All changes would stop the behavior temporarily and then it would resume. He is now on some kind of cycle with this and I still haven't figured out the triggers. I do think winter is worse - maybe with it getting darker before I return home from work, but lights in the house doesn't seem to help. He also will mark while on a leash, but not have a really good pee. He gets a lot of exercise in the morning (a 1 mile or so jog with me and maybe Maverick, who is constantly rehabbing from some type of foot or shoulder injury (not too graceful) and then a good walk with all of them), so that doesn't help either. I have finally resorted to belly-banding him with a huge Poise pad when I go to work. That way, if he is dry - woohoo! If not, I don't have to spend the next hour cleaning my floors and furniture. We really think that Goose just gets to a point where he gets agitated or insecure if I am gone longer than he thinks I should be and pees. All I can say is thank goodness he is so sweet!

 

While I don't have a cure for you, at least I understand your frustration! If you find the magic cure, please share!

 

Cindy