Houdini Tested Positive For Babesiosis

[Guest BooBooMama]

My little foster girl tested positive for Babesiosis. Currently she shows no signs of illness except for a slight limp which seems to be dissipating with rest. I am bringing her in to the vet for a CBC to check blood platelets this afternoon. Has anyone else had a dog with Babesiosis? Will she be very ill? I am freaked out.

[Guest Energy11]

What is her titer number? It will be a ratio. If the titer is LOW, the next thing I'd do is have a PCR done to see if she was just exposed to the disease, or if it is active in her body.

 

Four of my five had positive low Babesia titers, but negative PCRs.

 

If the ratio is high enough, it should be treated. The treatment works.

 

Good Luck, and PM me if you need anymore info.

 

Hugs! Dee

[Guest BooBooMama]

What is her titer number? It will be a ratio. If the titer is LOW, the next thing I'd do is have a PCR done to see if she was just exposed to the disease, or if it is active in her body.

 

Four of my five had positive low Babesia titers, but negative PCRs.

 

If the ratio is high enough, it should be treated. The treatment works.

 

Good Luck, and PM me if you need anymore info.

 

Hugs! Dee

OK. We are going in this afternoon and my vet has a call in to the local veterinary internal medicine specialist. No doubt she will recommend a PCR.

[Batmom]

Get a PCR. Per NCSU's expert: "An antibody titer may persist for several months following drug treatment or following spontaneous recovery and therefore cannot be used to definitely determine the current infection status." There's a link here http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/ticklab.html#babesia to a document with more information. The babesia species that most often infects greyhounds can often be cleared with Imidocarb; it's a nasty drug so I wouldn't treat without a positive PCR first.

NCSU's order form is here:http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/documents/REQUESTFORM-2009.pdf , PCR's on page 2. Might have your vet call them first and explain what's been done so far and what results were.

It's possible that UW-Madison does PCRs but if in doubt I would use NCSU -- they're pretty much the gold standard for this type of testing.

[Guest Energy11]

..."The babesia species that most often infects greyhounds can often be cleared with Imidocarb; it's a nasty drug so I wouldn't treat without a positive PCR first. ..."

You aren't kidding about this! When I was with the adoption group in Florida, I GAVE these shots to some of the dogs with high titers. I know Protatek has a "number" with the ratio being high, where they recommend treatment.

 

I TOTALLY AGREE, GET A PCR BEFORE TREATMENT. Thanks, Batmom!

[Guest Energy11]

Get a PCR. Per NCSU's expert: "An antibody titer may persist for several months following drug treatment or following spontaneous recovery and therefore cannot be used to definitely determine the current infection status." There's a link here http://www.cvm.ncsu....ab.html#babesia to a document with more information. The babesia species that most often infects greyhounds can often be cleared with Imidocarb; it's a nasty drug so I wouldn't treat without a positive PCR first.

NCSU's order form is here:http://www.cvm.ncsu....STFORM-2009.pdf , PCR's on page 2. Might have your vet call them first and explain what's been done so far and what results were.

It's possible that UW-Madison does PCRs but if in doubt I would use NCSU -- they're pretty much the gold standard for this type of testing.

 

I just looked up where our PCRs were sent, and it WAS NCSU. Took a while, but to me, it was VERY worth it!

[Batmom]

They can do it stat, but they charge extra.

 

The fastpanel PCRs are faster for initial testing but once you have a positive titer I think it's probably better to get the ... slow ... PCR.

[Trihounds]

Both mine were treated with Imidocarb (Imizol). Both reacted negatively (it is a NASTY drug):

 

Bumper - near immediate vomiting and defecation at the vet (this is why they keep them for observation for several hours after injection. They can counteract these symptoms with an Atropine (I believe) injection. Someone will correct me if that is the wrong drug. Not long after Bumper's Imizol shot, which is coincidentally within 2 weeks of rabies and other cocktails, he developed an autoimmune condition that would cause him a significant amount of grief 2 weeks later and life threatening issues 6 months later. There is no guaranteed cause for his autoimmune condition but given all the shots/cocktails he received within a couple weeks of each other, I am inclined to believe that contributed to the over-reaction by his immune system. He continues his battle to this day, just over a year later. So far, he is winning!!

 

Brucie - developed an internal abscess at the injection site which proved to be incredibly painful for about 1.5 weeks, to the point he couldn't lay on one side or get up without assistance. He recovered from that secondary condition without any long term issues.

 

Apparently the scenarios above are quite rare (save the immediate reaction by vomiting, etc, which is relatively common) and we were just 'unlucky'. It was still a really difficult time for our boys (and us) but I am told it was better they be treated than the organism be left in their systems. Good luck with your research and decision...hopefully the titer ratio is low.

[CaliforniaGreys]

You know this is all greek to me, but I'm keeping Dini in my thoughts

[Guest Energy11]

They can do it stat, but they charge extra.

 

The fastpanel PCRs are faster for initial testing but once you have a positive titer I think it's probably better to get the ... slow ... PCR.

 

Yep! I would opt for the "slow" version too!

[Guest Energy11]

Both mine were treated with Imidocarb (Imizol). Both reacted negatively (it is a NASTY drug):

 

Bumper - near immediate vomiting and defecation at the vet (this is why they keep them for observation for several hours after injection. They can counteract these symptoms with an Atropine (I believe) injection. Someone will correct me if that is the wrong drug. Not long after Bumper's Imizol shot, which is coincidentally within 2 weeks of rabies and other cocktails, he developed an autoimmune condition that would cause him a significant amount of grief 2 weeks later and life threatening issues 6 months later. There is no guaranteed cause for his autoimmune condition but given all the shots/cocktails he received within a couple weeks of each other, I am inclined to believe that contributed to the over-reaction by his immune system. He continues his battle to this day, just over a year later. So far, he is winning!!

 

Brucie - developed an internal abscess at the injection site which proved to be incredibly painful for about 1.5 weeks, to the point he couldn't lay on one side or get up without assistance. He recovered from that secondary condition without any long term issues.

 

Apparently the scenarios above are quite rare (save the immediate reaction by vomiting, etc, which is relatively common) and we were just 'unlucky'. It was still a really difficult time for our boys (and us) but I am told it was better they be treated than the organism be left in their systems. Good luck with your research and decision...hopefully the titer ratio is low.

 

Yes, the drug given with the Imizol is Atopine. It does counteract SOME of the side effects, but there ARE many, as you have seen. It is also an intra-muscular injection, and it BURNS like HECK, as well.

 

Many adoption groups AND vets, give the Imizol injections (2) given two weeks apart, ... in dogs with high titers. I guess that is because PCRs are expensive, and take a while, but boy, they are worth it!

[greyhead]

Shane had the imidocarb shots a couple months ago and was given atropine to mitigate side effects. He had no reaction to the shots at all! The atropine, however, did get him panting for a while.

 

I did call NCSU beforehand to ask about the PCR and spoke to a 15-year researcher. She said she'd go ahead and treat for babesia even without PCR confirmation, for this reason: The test is like dipping a bucket in the ocean and hoping it comes back with fish. You know there are fish in the ocean, but the odds of the bucket catching them are pretty small. That's why all the experts I consulted, including the vet on the Tick-L forum, say that a negative PCR is meaningless. As Batmom will tell you, however, the odds get better if you do the PCR twice. So what you wind up doing will depend on a number of factors, including $$ and how much you fear imidocarb.

 

Brucie Dad, I need to confer with you about your pup's autoimmune problem. Shane is having some problems lately that have everybody stumped. Don't want to hijack the thread, though. Could I PM you about it?

[Guest BooBooMama]

Get a PCR. Per NCSU's expert: "An antibody titer may persist for several months following drug treatment or following spontaneous recovery and therefore cannot be used to definitely determine the current infection status." There's a link here http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/ticklab.html#babesia to a document with more information. The babesia species that most often infects greyhounds can often be cleared with Imidocarb; it's a nasty drug so I wouldn't treat without a positive PCR first.

NCSU's order form is here:http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/documents/REQUESTFORM-2009.pdf , PCR's on page 2. Might have your vet call them first and explain what's been done so far and what results were.

It's possible that UW-Madison does PCRs but if in doubt I would use NCSU -- they're pretty much the gold standard for this type of testing.

 

My vet works with Protatek and they do PCR's.

[Guest Energy11]

Get a PCR. Per NCSU's expert: "An antibody titer may persist for several months following drug treatment or following spontaneous recovery and therefore cannot be used to definitely determine the current infection status." There's a link here http://www.cvm.ncsu....ab.html#babesia to a document with more information. The babesia species that most often infects greyhounds can often be cleared with Imidocarb; it's a nasty drug so I wouldn't treat without a positive PCR first.

NCSU's order form is here:http://www.cvm.ncsu....STFORM-2009.pdf , PCR's on page 2. Might have your vet call them first and explain what's been done so far and what results were.

It's possible that UW-Madison does PCRs but if in doubt I would use NCSU -- they're pretty much the gold standard for this type of testing.

 

My vet works with Protatek and they do PCR's.

 

Yes, I forgot that they did. I had my ORIGINAL tick testing (titers) were done by Protatek, but when I worked for my vet in Florida, HE used NSCU for the PCRs. Good Luck!

[Burpdog]

Most of the negative side effects from Imizol are from improper administration of the drug. I printed out the instructions for my vet and he was glad because he had not given a shot in years.

 

You must change the needle after the draw. It should be given IM in the butt and sides rotated, the injections given exactly two weeks apart.

 

If you want a lot of good information, check out the tick list. I personally wouldn't waste money on a PCR. I also would not treat some positive titres. You can call and talk with Dr. Holland if Protatek did the test. In addition, you need to know what the blood panel shows from normal blood work.

 

Fortunately, one of the Tick list's administrators (and I believe the founder) is Dr. Beckett in Austin who has treated hundreds of greyhounds.

 

Tick List

[Guest BooBooMama]

Most of the negative side effects from Imizol are from improper administration of the drug. I printed out the instructions for my vet and he was glad because he had not given a shot in years.

 

You must change the needle after the draw. It should be given IM in the butt and sides rotated, the injections given exactly two weeks apart.

 

If you want a lot of good information, check out the tick list. I personally wouldn't waste money on a PCR. I also would not treat some positive titres. You can call and talk with Dr. Holland if Protatek did the test. In addition, you need to know what the blood panel shows from normal blood work.

 

Fortunately, one of the Tick list's administrators (and I believe the founder) is Dr. Beckett in Austin who has treated hundreds of greyhounds.

 

Tick List

I cannot access the list.

[greyhead]

You have to subscribe first and, I'm sorry, I forget how! You won't find a ton of stuff about babesia on Tick-L, and you'll have to do an archive search. But what you do find will be worth reading.

[Hubcitypam]

I had several fosters that we treated with Imizol. I can't remember how many (3 or 4?) but we emptied the bottle between them. It was 2 shots 2 weeks apart for each. None of them had any side effects at all.

[Guest MZH]

Our Rita had a babesia titer if 1:320, which was treated with Imizol unsuccessfully. The titer stayed there for three years and then dropped to 1:64 on it's own. She wasn't ever sick, so don't freak out yet. Her only issue is that she's spooky (but sweet).

[robinw]

Phoenix was successfully treated with imizol. not only did he have a positive titre, the critters were visible in his blood. he didn't suffer much in the way of side effects because the vet followed the changing needle protocol described in the link provided by burpdog.

[Guest BooBooMama]

UPDATE on Houdini

We had a CBC and a VCLT test and everything looks normal except that her Segmented Neutrophil Absolute is a bit low (1.85.) The vet feels we do not need to treat with Imizol at this time. We will do a PCR in six months and if we see anything at that time then we will start the Imizol injections.

 

The vet wasn't concerned about the low Segmented Neutrophil Absolute. Does anyone know if I should be concerned?

[Guest BooBooMama]

Hi all,

Just heard back from OSU and Houdini's low Segmented Neutrophil Absolute reading is within normal range for a greyhound. My vet thought is was OK but it was nice to confirm that.

[Guest Energy11]

Hi all,

Just heard back from OSU and Houdini's low Segmented Neutrophil Absolute reading is within normal range for a greyhound. My vet thought is was OK but it was nice to confirm that.

 

I am VERY HAPPY for you and Houdini!!!

 

A second opinion, ESPECIALLY from OSU, is a GREAT idea!

 

Sending warm wishes and hugs! Dee and The Five

[Batmom]

The test is like dipping a bucket in the ocean and hoping it comes back with fish. You know there are fish in the ocean, but the odds of the bucket catching them are pretty small. That's why all the experts I consulted, including the vet on the Tick-L forum, say that a negative PCR is meaningless.

 

Egad. That's almost exactly the opposite of what a leading researcher at the same school told me. Don't you love it when you ask the same question and get two different answers from reasonable sources?

 

The thing with PCRs is, you only have to catch one fish, you don't have to catch a bunch. That's the beauty of the technology. You got one piece of DNA, you got a positive. A single negative PCR isn't a guarantee, but it's a pretty good indication.

 

A positive titer, even a very high one, shows only that the dog was exposed to the disease, not that he has it. That's why most recommend treating only rather high titers unless there are distinct symptoms. Titers can remain high for years after exposure or even after treatment. In the absence of symptoms, using titers alone, you don't know if you're treating a disease (meaningful) or treating an antibody number (meaningless).

 

What the experts seem to like to see as indicative of disease (in an asymptomatic dog) is paired titers 6 months apart, with the second rising, or a single positive PCR. Best indicator of lack of disease would be paired negative PCRs.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Batmom

[Guest BooBooMama]

The test is like dipping a bucket in the ocean and hoping it comes back with fish. You know there are fish in the ocean, but the odds of the bucket catching them are pretty small. That's why all the experts I consulted, including the vet on the Tick-L forum, say that a negative PCR is meaningless.

 

Egad. That's almost exactly the opposite of what a leading researcher at the same school told me. Don't you love it when you ask the same question and get two different answers from reasonable sources?

 

The thing with PCRs is, you only have to catch one fish, you don't have to catch a bunch. That's the beauty of the technology. You got one piece of DNA, you got a positive. A single negative PCR isn't a guarantee, but it's a pretty good indication.

 

A positive titer, even a very high one, shows only that the dog was exposed to the disease, not that he has it. That's why most recommend treating only rather high titers unless there are distinct symptoms. Titers can remain high for years after exposure or even after treatment. In the absence of symptoms, using titers alone, you don't know if you're treating a disease (meaningful) or treating an antibody number (meaningless).

 

What the experts seem to like to see as indicative of disease (in an asymptomatic dog) is paired titers 6 months apart, with the second rising, or a single positive PCR. Best indicator of lack of disease would be paired negative PCRs.

 

Actually Dr. Cristina Iazbik, the hematologist at OSU said the same thing- that the PCR's have too many false negatives. She told me not to do it and just do the CBC. I just spoke to her today