Can Someone Help Bean?

[Guest mcsheltie]

I received this heartbreaking email tonight. We will get Bean out of there tomorrow. I know there are people on GT who are experienced with dogs like Bean. I can sure use some help here!

 

TIA!!!!!

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

It is with a very heavy heart that I come to you with this. I feel like we have failed in some way, and in a sense we have failed both Bean and Spencer.

 

As many of you know, Bean has always been our challenging dog, but we have always tried our best with her. We have found ways to deal with the behaviors we have been unable to change and we have put much work into her. Bean has been a lot of work to get her to live peacefully with the rest of the pack. This year. however, has been the most challenging and the most filled with change.

 

This year we welcomed our son, Spencer, had a major injury to another of our dogs, lost our pack leader, and have been dealing with major behavior changes throughout. After we lost Bridget we knew we would have a period of upheaval in the pack until someone stepped up to fill her role. The pack has settled since Bridget's passing, but the problem behavior with Bean has only gotten worse.

 

As back ground to her behavior, Bean can not be allowed outside with any of the dogs due to her aggressiveness. She attacks any of the other ones when they are with her. The hair on her back stands straight up and she will jump onto the other dogs backs while growling and biting at them. If it wasn't for her muzzle and theirs we would had had some major injuries from this. She has done the same thing with a lab that is much bigger than her too. On walks she reacts aggressively toward any dog we encounter. In the house she does pretty good except when we come home. When we enter the house everyone is very excited and Karma (Our Iggy) will be barking and running around. Bean's reaction to this is to go after her. If it wasn't for the muzzles, again, Karma would have probably been injured very badly by now.

 

Now our problem: Spencer has been crawling for the last 2.5 months. In that time we have been working on teaching him that the dog beds are off limits and we have been working with the dogs to teach them that they are to remove themselves from the room if they don't want to be bothered. Chase, Tamey, and Karma have all learned this well and Spencer does a wonderful job at listening to "No" and to stay away from the dog beds. That being said he is a baby and they are dogs. When he forgets or they don't move soon enough all of the dogs, except Bean will walk away. Bean, on the other hand, will growl at him if she thinks he is crawling in her direction. She has snapped at him when he first started crawling, so we keep them separated. But tonight the huge failure came. I never leave Spencer alone with the dogs no matter what and tonight was no different. He was crawling and she had been asleep in another room. I was getting up to get him when she came in and snapped without growling at him. She got his forehead but very close to his eye. We are now at our wits end.

 

The answers to the questions: Yes, Yes, Yes we have used the muzzle. We have never been afraid to muzzle our dogs. We have used the muzzle tons with her because of her behavior. We have tried every form of correction we can imagine. From conversations we have had we have come to the conclusion that we can either try some form of behavior modification or we have to admit defeat.

 

The problem we face now is the fact that we cannot afford to find her a behavior modification treatment. We have had a terrible year money-wise with Karma's injury and having to have Bridget put down.

 

I have no idea what to do now. I feel terrible. I feel like we failed. I know the group can't afford this and that she may be hard to deal with. I have to put Spencer first. I have to.

 

Those of you who know us know that this is a terrible decision for us to make and that we have done everything we can think of.

 

So now I come to you. I don't know what to do. Right now I hate the sight of her. I can't stand her and what she did tonight. I can't have her doing this to my son. My dogs have always been my life, but my son is so much more that that.

 

What do we do?

 

Honestly, she needs a home without little ones and maybe without the challenge of other dogs. And honestly, right now I am so sad, mad, and depressed about this whole mess that I just want an end to it. So, please help me.

[JAJ2010]

What a horrible situation!

[Batmom]

What are your options? Does your group have a kennel, or will she go to foster home? Any choices of foster homes?

[TheFullHouse]

Sounds like Bean was not a good fit from the beginning. I have to agree, if she's going after a baby crawling on the floor, someone is going to get hurt so getting her out of there is imperative.

 

I have my own personal feelings on dealing with dogs like Bean. Our Valentino was our "Bean". He took a strong hand to bring around, someone who was willing to stand up to him and let him know that he was not in charge, we were. He has turned into the most loving, sweet boy, even though it took two years to get him to where he is today. Personally I think Bean should be place with very experienced greyhound owners, perhaps someone who has experience in dealing with aggressive hounds. I wouldn't discount placing her with a home with other dog, sometimes just being with different dogs is all it takes.

 

I hope someone can step up and help Bean find the right home, where she will be happy.

[Guest mcsheltie]

What are your options? Does your group have a kennel, or will she go to foster home? Any choices of foster homes?

Not many experienced enough to handle her and they are full.

[Guest eaglflyt]

Can you possibly contact other groups in your area in search of another foster home?

 

For the sake of the family and the hound, I think moving her as quick as possible is the best thing.

 

Also, I'd recommend the group have her checked out by a vet if she hasn't been checked recently ... especially thyroid, vision, etc., those types of things that can cause behavior issues.

Edited December 16, 2009 by eaglflyt

[Batmom]

Your second best option would be a foster home with a big ol' lazy bombproof male and people who will muzzle everybody, no question about that, until she can be assessed.

 

It could be that she just needs a change of venue, tho. There are dogs who just do not get along in certain environments and do fine in others. Fingers crossed she is one of those.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Sounds like Bean was not a good fit from the beginning. I have to agree, if she's going after a baby crawling on the floor, someone is going to get hurt so getting her out of there is imperative.

 

I have my own personal feelings on dealing with dogs like Bean. Our Valentino was our "Bean". He took a strong hand to bring around, someone who was willing to stand up to him and let him know that he was not in charge, we were. He has turned into the most loving, sweet boy, even though it took two years to get him to where he is today. Personally I think Bean should be place with very experienced greyhound owners, perhaps someone who has experience in dealing with aggressive hounds. I wouldn't discount placing her with a home with other dog, sometimes just being with different dogs is all it takes.

 

I hope someone can step up and help Bean find the right home, where she will be happy.

 

She has been there a little over two years. I think she was a foster flunky. She was one of their first dogs and was good in the beginning. Despite how the email sounds, these are good people (I mean not just nice people, but good with dogs too)and they have been trying very hard to work thru this. The dog that died was the police women of the pack. She did a lot to keep Bean in line. With her gone and the new baby everything changed.

 

Can you possibly contact other groups in your area in search of another foster home?

 

For the sake of the family and the hound, I think moving her as quick as possible is the best thing.

 

Also, I'd recommend the group have her checked out by a vet if she hasn't been checked recently ... especially thyroid, vision, etc., those types of things that can cause behavior issues.

 

Dogs coming in from Dairyland have made finding fosters difficult. We've got a haul coming in on Sunday. But she'll be moved tomorrow. Good idea on the vet check... Thanks!

Edited December 16, 2009 by mcsheltie

[Guest Greytluv]

I hope Bean finds someplace where she feels comfortable.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Okay, I looked through our files and this is what was written about her.

 

"Sabrina" January 11, 2005 Approx. 52lbs, is elegant and refined. This young girl is a joy to foster, she has excellent house manners, sweet, loving with a touch of playfulness. Sabrina will occasionally grace you with a smile, but more than that she will warm your heart and home with her presence. She was being fostered with teenagers, a 7 year old, pesky small dogs, rats and birds.

[Guest eaglflyt]

Okay, I looked through our files and this is what was written about her.

 

"Sabrina" January 11, 2005 Approx. 52lbs, is elegant and refined. This young girl is a joy to foster, she has excellent house manners, sweet, loving with a touch of playfulness. Sabrina will occasionally grace you with a smile, but more than that she will warm your heart and home with her presence. She was being fostered with teenagers, a 7 year old, pesky small dogs, rats and birds.

 

Wow! This make me suspicious of a medical issue even more. Of course, strictly behavioral/environmental are still a possibility. I'm hoping that a thorough vet check and new environment will be the ticket to her getting back to her old self.

[Greytlady94]

There are times when the loveliest dogs do not fit in even the very of best homes, it happens. Thankfully the adopter has realized this and the dog will be able to be re-homed before there are any real injuries. Bad time of year and bad year, but something good will come out of it. Sabrina or "Bean" will likely do well in a home where the dynamics are different. Nobodies fault here, it just happens.

[Guest PhillyPups]

I am reading this and thinking of Bean.

 

In reading the foster write-up and the recent e-mail, first and foremost I would remove Bean immediately. I would never place her with young children or small dogs, and definitely not to a pack with an established "alpha" and I hate to use that term.

 

 

I would also have a complete vet check.

 

 

My TigerPower did not like young children, and he was a fear biter.

 

 

Bean's world has turned upside down, and what also sends red flags to me is the woman writing that "right now I can't stand the sight of her".

 

They can be the "lovliest" people in the world and still the wrong home for Bean.

 

 

I am trying to picture the scenaruio, however, I just never let my son crawl around any dogs I had when he was young.

 

 

Good luck with Bean and please keep uo posted.

[Guest TexasGreytMom]

Just wanted to let you know I can certainly understand your situation. Years ago we had to return a pup to our group that just didn't fit in, after trying everything we could think of to make things work. We were happy to learn that she then found her forever home with a single young guy who had no other pets. It was a match made in heaven. Don't beat yourself up or feel guilty about things - we did, too, at first and in the end we saw that things worked out for the best.

[TheFullHouse]

It sounds like poor Bean just hasn't adjusted to the changes in the household. Maybe a less active household without children would be better. Not all pups can adjust to having a baby crawling around all the time. I hope you can come up with a solution. Thank goodness you're there to help.

[Guest redreed]

I may take some stabs for this but --- Tiger was 11 when my daughter was born and although not thrilled with her, he never really bothered much with her. We were diligent about keeping them all safe, Tiger Shark was my angel from the moment he walked in the door. I've never loved a dog they way I did him, he got me through so much and did it with a silly dignity that was amazing. HOWEVER, there was one time shortly after Jacey learned to walk that he did bite her (so not his fault) and I'll be honest, I couldn't stand to look at him either, and this was MY BOY!! I can't explain to anybody what Tiger means to me. And I put him in the upstairs bedroom and cried.

 

I was lucky - he wasn't going after her and so I was able to just muzzle him when she was home and awake and the rest of the time he was fine. But when a dog bites your child, even if in your heart and mind you know that it was not the dogs fault, you're first instinct is to protect your child!!!! Don't judge this woman too harshly for a moment of pain like she's in now. It sounds like Bean is just not happy and it sounds like the family and the group are doing the best thing for her and the family.

 

Prayers for all of them!!

Edited December 16, 2009 by redreed

[GeorgeofNE]

I don't think anyone is judging these people harshly.

 

Obviously the safety of the child is of the utmost importance. Sounds like a household that is WAY too busy for this particular dog.

 

I know that when I get my next dog, I'm going to request one that cannot be placed with children since I don't have any, and it's not an issue and never will be.

 

Surely there is SOMEONE on GT that can take this dog until a permanent home is found? One with no little kids?

[Guest houndhome]

Bean's owners sound like fine people - this is just a bad fit. I hope she can get a home where she can be the only hound or with a laid back male. I'd definitely get her checked out medically, but this just sounds like too much commotion in the house for her (heck, I'd probably snap, too). Sounds like she needs a quiet home with an older couple or single parent. Thank you to you and your group for taking care of her as well as all of the Dairyland hounds. So many wonderful pets.

[Guest LindsaySF]

For everyone's sake Bean should probably be re-homed. A different home would be a better match at this point.

 

"Sabrina" January 11, 2005 Approx. 52lbs, is elegant and refined. This young girl is a joy to foster, she has excellent house manners, sweet, loving with a touch of playfulness. Sabrina will occasionally grace you with a smile, but more than that she will warm your heart and home with her presence. She was being fostered with teenagers, a 7 year old, pesky small dogs, rats and birds.

Is this the same home she is in now? What was meant by "pesky small dogs"? Maybe I am reading too much into it.

 

 

While I'm reading into things.... This bit:

and we have been working with the dogs to teach them that they are to remove themselves from the room if they don't want to be bothered.

Honestly, not many dogs will do this, leave a room if they feel "bothered". I think that is giving the dogs too much credit and expecting them to change their behavior. Some dogs want to avoid confrontation and they will leave a room. But many dogs will hold their ground and will instead growl or snap if they feel bothered/threatened/whatever. Instead of leaving their bed/food/etc, many dogs will react aggressively to defend it. Expecting the dogs to leave the room to avoid a wandering baby is a little much IMO. But if Bean did indeed come from another room to bite the baby, then a baby-free home would be best for her.

 

 

As back ground to her behavior, Bean can not be allowed outside with any of the dogs due to her aggressiveness. She attacks any of the other ones when they are with her. The hair on her back stands straight up and she will jump onto the other dogs backs while growling and biting at them. If it wasn't for her muzzle and theirs we would had had some major injuries from this. She has done the same thing with a lab that is much bigger than her too. On walks she reacts aggressively toward any dog we encounter. In the house she does pretty good except when we come home. When we enter the house everyone is very excited and Karma (Our Iggy) will be barking and running around. Bean's reaction to this is to go after her. If it wasn't for the muzzles, again, Karma would have probably been injured very badly by now.

I don't really see aggression in Bean's behavior here, I see redirected excitement. The fact that she is fine with the other dogs in the house (except when they arrive home) points to this. I think she would be fine in a home with other dogs, depending on the personalities, but she would need to be managed. More exercise/stimulation helps as well, and with a new baby in the house the current owners might be having a hard time with that.

 

Many dogs get overly excited outdoors and they play quite roughly. The hair standing up is not always aggression, sometimes it is an adrenaline response and indicates excitement or over-stimulation. Believe it or not, Sooner and Teagan's idea of play is to chase the other dogs around, hackles up, jump onto their backs, and bite at their necks. (Thank god for muzzles!) Luckily Honey plays very rough herself, and the 3 of them have fun together. If they gang up on her too much and she gets upset, she snarls and snaps at them and they back off. Some dogs won't stand up for themselves and the owner must intervene. And this type of rough play should definitely be discouraged when there is a big size difference in the dogs (like a Grey and an IG). Sooner in particular was too rough with the other dogs in the beginning, but after a few corrections from them (and me) he has gotten much better. He basically had to learn how to play appropriately. I am always there to supervise and when things get too rough (and the dogs don't "say" anything) I intervene. Most fosters have acclimated to this play style too, the ones that didn't enjoy it either stayed out of the play circle, ran off when things got too excited, or the other dogs adapted their play style to be gentler. Sophie likes to chase the other dogs around but she doesn't get into the wrestling, she wanders off when things get too rough for her.

 

Reacting to other dogs on walks sounds like leash reactivity. Honey does the same thing, especially with non-Greys. LAT training really makes a difference, but Bean needs an experienced owner that can work with her on this.

 

Bean going after the IG when the owners come home is classic redirected aggression/excitement. The dogs are all excited because their people are home, adrenaline is up, things are tense, and the IG is barking and running around, many dogs will give chase under those circumstances. I had similar problems with Teagan and Cody in the beginning. Cody always barks and jumps around near the baby gate when people come in the front door. Teagan got very excited by this and would chase him, nipping at his neck. Cody took exception to this and things did not go well. My solution was either: 1) Stop Cody from barking, as he was the trigger (good luck with that ) or, 2) Remove Teagan from a tense situation such as that. Teagan is now in an ex-pen when no one is home, that way he can be excited all by himself when we arrive home and not chase anyone around. I wait until he calms down before taking him out, and all is well.

 

Teagan's case was redirected excitement, but in some dogs it is redirected aggression. Cody is a redirector, in tense circumstances he goes after the other dogs (and he isn't playing). The solution was to avoid those triggers (running along the fence line with the other dogs when something exciting is on the other side, mingling with the pack when food is being prepared, mingling with the pack at the baby gate when people are coming/going, etc). We avoid those triggers with Cody and we don't have any aggression or fights.

 

 

The dog that died was the police women of the pack. She did a lot to keep Bean in line. With her gone and the new baby everything changed.

Changes in the household and in a pack will always change the behavior of the dogs. From reading this, it sounds to me (no offense intended) that Bean's owners relied on the dog that died to monitor Bean's behavior, and they aren't used to doing it themselves. I'm not all about the alpha concept really, but some dogs need a more firm, no-nonsense owner to keep them in line. Maybe Bean is one of those dogs, and without Bridget there, she is acting out in ways that she didn't before. Instead of waiting for another dog to step up and fill Bridget's old role, the owners must be the alpha in the house.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I just don't want to see a dog like Bean be labeled as dog-aggressive and needing to be an only dog, when problems like this are manageable for a dog-savvy owner. Good luck to Bean.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Edited December 26, 2009 by LindsaySF

[Guest TeddysMom]

I wish I lived close enough to foster. Bean is exactly the kind of dog I love to work with. She doesn't necessarily need a "quiet" home but maybe one without small children. If there are several dogs in a home, even if it is active and lively, they usually find their place in the pack and are happy and content. I have taken several dogs that are labeled as biters and discovered wonderful, loving, non-aggressive souls who just had things happen in their lives that upset them. I understand that Bean should be re-homed because her Mom will never be able to trust her again but I hate to have her labeled as aggressive and hard to place because of this one action. She would likely do just fine in a house with other dogs and humans, just not little humans.

[Guest TeddysMom]

I am just wondering if Bean was moved and how she is doing. Hopefully she will find the perfect home for her.

[Guest Greytluv]

Any update on Bean?

[Guest ThunderPaws]

I wish I lived close enough to foster. Bean is exactly the kind of dog I love to work with. She doesn't necessarily need a "quiet" home but maybe one without small children. If there are several dogs in a home, even if it is active and lively, they usually find their place in the pack and are happy and content. I have taken several dogs that are labeled as biters and discovered wonderful, loving, non-aggressive souls who just had things happen in their lives that upset them. I understand that Bean should be re-homed because her Mom will never be able to trust her again but I hate to have her labeled as aggressive and hard to place because of this one action. She would likely do just fine in a house with other dogs and humans, just not little humans.

Where is Bean, and where do you live?

[Guest Greytluv]

Do I hear a GUR

[Guest TeddysMom]

SW Missouri. Way to far away to be a foster home. If worse comes to worse and she really has no where to go, I would adopt her or I could foster her, evaluate her and find her a home through another rescue. There is a GPA chapter in Springfield, about 60 miles from me if it is possible to transfer her through them. I really don't know how all this works with the different greyhound rescue groups. I do know that there has to be someone, somewhere who can help this girl. Maybe she has already found a foster home. Can someone let us know?