Advice Needed On Bleed Due To Hemangiosarcoma

[greytluck]

I just got off the phone with my vet because I'm concerned that a blood vessel that ruptured in Hobbes leg on Saturday may still be bleeding internally. I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is. All she said was to keep an eye on it, but the problem is I have no idea what to keep an eye on. She also mentioned it may just be blood redistributing in his body but again I have no idea how to tell if this is the case or not. Can anyone that has had a dog with a bleed like this from hemangiosarcoma or even just a post surgical bleed shed some light on this matter for me. I have been way to emotional with this whole thing to think logically, but I'm worried sick he is slowly bleeding to death. Please tell be I'm just being crazy.

 

Saturday- Blood vessel ruptured, he was quite sore and lethargic this day.

 

About 1 hour after rupture.

 

 

At about 12 hours

 

 

 

Sunday- The swelling had reduced but the bruising spread. He didn't appear to be in pain, still a bit lethargic but better then Saturday.

 

At about 36 hours post rupture

 

Today- Bruising has continued to spread even further. Attitude about the same as Sunday, still no pain.

 

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Demon's bleed was from amputation. I took photos to document so I could compare both swelling size and bruise spread over time. Also took a sharpie and marked the current edge of bruising. It made it easier to tell if it was spreading. Some of it will move depending how his current positioning.

[Burpdog]

Seems to me there should be something done since it is spreading. Not sure what.

 

Sending prayers.

[Guest Heehoo]

I would think your vet could give him something to cooagulate the blood. Dear did not do this....but I have seen greys who have had amps do this.

Gogh did this, which my vet said was a sign he was bleeding internally. Of course it was the day he went to the bridge.

I would also think at least your vet could xray him just to see where the bleeding is, it could be the tumor has ruptured, but with Bool, the rupture was painful. Dear's tumor did not rupture, but Bool's did.

I would have to insist my vet see him. Even if its to get something for coagulation. I'm sure I'm not spelling that right, but who cares.

[greytluck]

Seems to me there should be something done since it is spreading. Not sure what.

 

Sending prayers.

 

I was told because of the hemangiosarcoma there really isn't anything they could do. I asked about some kind of drug but she said it probably isn't a clotting issue so there isn't anything for it. In a drastic step she could do surgery to stop the bleed but she said it's not something she would recommend as it's evasive and not fair to do to a dog with late stage cancer.

[greytluck]

I would think your vet could give him something to cooagulate the blood. Dear did not do this....but I have seen greys who have had amps do this.

Gogh did this, which my vet said was a sign he was bleeding internally. Of course it was the day he went to the bridge.

I would also think at least your vet could xray him just to see where the bleeding is, it could be the tumor has ruptured, but with Bool, the rupture was painful. Dear's tumor did not rupture, but Bool's did.

I would have to insist my vet see him. Even if its to get something for coagulation. I'm sure I'm not spelling that right, but who cares.

 

Hobbes has many small tumors throughout his body so I don't doubt that it is one of them that ruptured. I just called and left a message about a coagulating drug, I don't know if that is different then a clotting drug or not.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is.

 

I have no experience at all with this type of cancer but this bothers me.

How could the vet possibly know there's nothing they can do unless she sees what's going on?

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Perhaps Amicar would help? OSU's web page on Amicar

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

Outlaws skin on his neck did this I would want to take him to the vet... not sure what they could do but just for it to be seen.

 

Like Hilda's Gogh, Outlaw had this on his last day when we let him go to the bridge. There were other factors to our decision though, not just this. Outlaw was in pain.

 

Give him a kiss from me, this is breaking my heart :

[greytluck]

I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is.

 

I have no experience at all with this type of cancer but this bothers me.

How could the vet possibly know there's nothing they can do unless she sees what's going on?

 

I sent her the same pictures as I posted here, I know not as good as seeing it in person but it gave her an idea on what was going on.

[Guest MZH]

What a situation.

[Guest smarthound]

Please send this info to Dr. Couto's staff at OSU ASAP - greyosu@osu.edu. And ask your vet to contact OSU today.(614) 292-3551

 

All good wishes to you and your pup.

[nyGreys]

Sending many prayers.

[Guest Energy11]

Please send this info to Dr. Couto's staff at OSU ASAP - greyosu@osu.edu. And ask your vet to contact OSU today.(614) 292-3551

 

tAll good wishes to you and your pup.

 

 

 

 

YES,most DEFINITELY get in touch with OSU and Dr. Couto, ASAP!!! Yes, it might be a ruptured tumor, but there HAS to be something that can be given, and, yes, this looks like internal bleeding. couto.1@osu.edu (*Dr. C's email. You already have the phone number. It is time to get that second opinion, and THE BEST opinion will be Dr. Couto! Love, hugs, and lots of prayers!

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

I know this is upsetting to many and hard to take.

But honestly with a dog that has hemangio the vet informs you that there is a possibility that the tumors will rupture.

 

I know you want to do something to fix your hound but in this case it sees that there isn't anything that can be done.

With hemangio, over time, tumors will either get so big that it effects their breathing or other vitals or tumors rupture and cause a bleed out.

This is what happens with hemagio and often times the human has to make the choice for the hound to let them go, before the dog actually goes on their own.

It hurts, it sucks, it's not fair, I know. I've dealt with hemagio with 2 hounds.

 

If you think the bleeding has stopped. To help the body reabsorb the blood you can try and run some water over the area a few times a day.

As far as if it's still bleeding, sadly other than some sort of heroic effort with surgery, I don't think there is anything.

 

I'm sorry your going thru all of this

[3DogNite]

My first greyhound succumbed to Hemangiosarcoma back in 2002, and went thru a HUGE Bleed, bigger than what you are showing! I didn't know at the time, that she had the cancer, but my vet figured the rupture happened with increased activity and the tumor being stretched, must have leaked or burst somehow under the skin.

 

The Blood pooling under the skin DID go away! it got really ugly first tho and it took a couple of weeks. But her body did absorb the blood and all the fluid.

 

She had several good months before the tumor got too big, and the mets where in her lungs and everywhere.

She didn't seem in pain until the VERY LAST WEEK.

 

PM me if you have other questions or just need another person who's been thru it to vent to!

 

I'm sorry you are going thru this!

[Batmom]

Can't add anything to what has been said, except for more hugs and prayers.

[Guest Heehoo]

I sent you a PM

[Houndtime]

I hate to actually put this in print, but John E had two episodes of blood pooling under the skin like that and we just thought he had injured himself, as they did go away. On the day that he died, his whole body filled up with blood as he apparently had a tumor that burst. We didn't know until it happened.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Houndtime

[Guest Heehoo]

I hate to actually put this in print, but John E had two episodes of blood pooling under the skin like that and we just thought he had injured himself, as they did go away.  On the day that he died, his whole body filled up with blood as he aparently had a tumor that burst.  We didn't know until it happened.

 

Actually its good that you're being up front. We have PM'd back & forth & I've been brutally honest about Dear's death of hermangiosarcoma. I think that's what is so good about Greytalk, we need to get this information out there. When Bool had it in 2003, I knew nothing about it. When Dear was dianosed in 2007, I read everything I could find, it all said the same thing, malignant usually lives about a month after diagnosed. So the more open we are, the more people learn the symptoms & although there is no cure, at least we can make more time with our pups. Sadly its only a dog cancer, very few cats or any other animals get it. 

[greytluck]

I spoke to my vet at length after I posted the original thread. The clinic is now closed but he is scheduled to have a clotting profile preformed tomorrow morning as DIC is a major concern with this type of cancer. She said if I was really worried I should go to the E-vet tonight but since he is still eating and alert she doesn't think it is needed. She still feels (by just looking at the photos) that the bleeding has stopped and it's just being distributed across his body.

 

I know this is upsetting to many and hard to take.

But honestly with a dog that has hemangio the vet informs you that there is a possibility that the tumors will rupture.

 

I know you want to do something to fix your hound but in this case it sees that there isn't anything that can be done.

With hemangio, over time, tumors will either get so big that it effects their breathing or other vitals or tumors rupture and cause a bleed out.

This is what happens with hemagio and often times the human has to make the choice for the hound to let them go, before the dog actually goes on their own.

It hurts, it sucks, it's not fair, I know. I've dealt with hemagio with 2 hounds.

 

If you think the bleeding has stopped. To help the body reabsorb the blood you can try and run some water over the area a few times a day.

As far as if it's still bleeding, sadly other than some sort of heroic effort with surgery, I don't think there is anything.

 

I'm sorry your going thru all of this

 

This is pretty much what my vet said. I trust she is telling me this out of concern for Hobbes' well being. She would certainly get more money if she did all the tests and tried all the meds but she was very honest with me which is hard to hear but I respect her more for it.

[CaliforniaGreys]

My inexperience with this type of cancer is what caused me to wonder why the vet wouldn't at least see him.

Cancer is a mean nasty disease, we all know that, but this type is just something I can't even comprehend.

 

You both are in my prayers

[Guest BellesDad]

I'm sorry about Hobbes. I am not downplaying the situation but after seeing the picture, it looks a lot worse than it is. It looks awful but this is blood from a burst subcutaneous tumor. I agree with the vet there is nothing to be done. A coagulant isn't going to do anything. This is blood that will be reabsorbed. I know it is hard to believe but I was amazed at how quickly Belle reabsorbed the blood. Belles entire body was black and blue. But she was not in pain. And it went away. The vet visit will just tire Hobbes out. Unless he seems to be in pain I wouldn't take him. That's me. I just want Belle's experience to help someone else out. Please PM me if you want to chat. Honestly this is not that bad even though it looks horrible. I know how you feel which is awful. I hope this helps

[Guest grey_dreams]

That is so frightening. I hope it looks much worse than it is. I think it must be a good sign that there isn't pain. If it was still bleeding, I would guess that the pressure would build and he would feel pain? I don't know anything about it, it was just a thought. Hope that the worst is now over.

[MP_the4pack]

The problem with this disease is that the body doesn't recognize that it's bleeding. So adding anticoagulants doesn't work.

There's a whole string of chemical reactions that occur when there is an injury. A burst hemangio tumor doesn't start that reaction. That's the problem. Pretty much, hemangio victims bleed to death. He may be lethargic because his blood count is so low now.

I'm so sorry.

 

(I lost my first baby Brindle to this horrid disease).