greytluck Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I just got off the phone with my vet because I'm concerned that a blood vessel that ruptured in Hobbes leg on Saturday may still be bleeding internally. I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is. All she said was to keep an eye on it, but the problem is I have no idea what to keep an eye on. She also mentioned it may just be blood redistributing in his body but again I have no idea how to tell if this is the case or not. Can anyone that has had a dog with a bleed like this from hemangiosarcoma or even just a post surgical bleed shed some light on this matter for me. I have been way to emotional with this whole thing to think logically, but I'm worried sick he is slowly bleeding to death. Please tell be I'm just being crazy. Saturday- Blood vessel ruptured, he was quite sore and lethargic this day. About 1 hour after rupture. At about 12 hours Sunday- The swelling had reduced but the bruising spread. He didn't appear to be in pain, still a bit lethargic but better then Saturday. At about 36 hours post rupture Today- Bruising has continued to spread even further. Attitude about the same as Sunday, still no pain. Quote Hobbes-Ricard Hatch09/23/99-12/21/09 Always loved, never forgotten. Wally TNJ Boy Howdy, GLS Genuinerisk Corinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorganKonaAlex Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Demon's bleed was from amputation. I took photos to document so I could compare both swelling size and bruise spread over time. Also took a sharpie and marked the current edge of bruising. It made it easier to tell if it was spreading. Some of it will move depending how his current positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Seems to me there should be something done since it is spreading. Not sure what. Sending prayers. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heehoo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would think your vet could give him something to cooagulate the blood. Dear did not do this....but I have seen greys who have had amps do this. Gogh did this, which my vet said was a sign he was bleeding internally. Of course it was the day he went to the bridge. I would also think at least your vet could xray him just to see where the bleeding is, it could be the tumor has ruptured, but with Bool, the rupture was painful. Dear's tumor did not rupture, but Bool's did. I would have to insist my vet see him. Even if its to get something for coagulation. I'm sure I'm not spelling that right, but who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytluck Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Seems to me there should be something done since it is spreading. Not sure what. Sending prayers. I was told because of the hemangiosarcoma there really isn't anything they could do. I asked about some kind of drug but she said it probably isn't a clotting issue so there isn't anything for it. In a drastic step she could do surgery to stop the bleed but she said it's not something she would recommend as it's evasive and not fair to do to a dog with late stage cancer. Quote Hobbes-Ricard Hatch09/23/99-12/21/09 Always loved, never forgotten. Wally TNJ Boy Howdy, GLS Genuinerisk Corinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytluck Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would think your vet could give him something to cooagulate the blood. Dear did not do this....but I have seen greys who have had amps do this. Gogh did this, which my vet said was a sign he was bleeding internally. Of course it was the day he went to the bridge. I would also think at least your vet could xray him just to see where the bleeding is, it could be the tumor has ruptured, but with Bool, the rupture was painful. Dear's tumor did not rupture, but Bool's did. I would have to insist my vet see him. Even if its to get something for coagulation. I'm sure I'm not spelling that right, but who cares. Hobbes has many small tumors throughout his body so I don't doubt that it is one of them that ruptured. I just called and left a message about a coagulating drug, I don't know if that is different then a clotting drug or not. Quote Hobbes-Ricard Hatch09/23/99-12/21/09 Always loved, never forgotten. Wally TNJ Boy Howdy, GLS Genuinerisk Corinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaGreys Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is. I have no experience at all with this type of cancer but this bothers me. How could the vet possibly know there's nothing they can do unless she sees what's going on? Quote Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12 For the sick, the lost, and the homeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorganKonaAlex Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Perhaps Amicar would help? OSU's web page on Amicar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheUnrulyHound Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Outlaws skin on his neck did this I would want to take him to the vet... not sure what they could do but just for it to be seen. Like Hilda's Gogh, Outlaw had this on his last day when we let him go to the bridge. There were other factors to our decision though, not just this. Outlaw was in pain. Give him a kiss from me, this is breaking my heart : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytluck Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I was told there really isn't a point to bring him in to the vets because there isn't anything she can do even if it is. I have no experience at all with this type of cancer but this bothers me. How could the vet possibly know there's nothing they can do unless she sees what's going on? I sent her the same pictures as I posted here, I know not as good as seeing it in person but it gave her an idea on what was going on. Quote Hobbes-Ricard Hatch09/23/99-12/21/09 Always loved, never forgotten. Wally TNJ Boy Howdy, GLS Genuinerisk Corinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MZH Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smarthound Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Please send this info to Dr. Couto's staff at OSU ASAP - greyosu@osu.edu. And ask your vet to contact OSU today.(614) 292-3551 All good wishes to you and your pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyGreys Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sending many prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Please send this info to Dr. Couto's staff at OSU ASAP - greyosu@osu.edu. And ask your vet to contact OSU today.(614) 292-3551 tAll good wishes to you and your pup. YES,most DEFINITELY get in touch with OSU and Dr. Couto, ASAP!!! Yes, it might be a ruptured tumor, but there HAS to be something that can be given, and, yes, this looks like internal bleeding. couto.1@osu.edu (*Dr. C's email. You already have the phone number. It is time to get that second opinion, and THE BEST opinion will be Dr. Couto! Love, hugs, and lots of prayers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreysAndMoreGreys Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I know this is upsetting to many and hard to take. But honestly with a dog that has hemangio the vet informs you that there is a possibility that the tumors will rupture. I know you want to do something to fix your hound but in this case it sees that there isn't anything that can be done. With hemangio, over time, tumors will either get so big that it effects their breathing or other vitals or tumors rupture and cause a bleed out. This is what happens with hemagio and often times the human has to make the choice for the hound to let them go, before the dog actually goes on their own. It hurts, it sucks, it's not fair, I know. I've dealt with hemagio with 2 hounds. If you think the bleeding has stopped. To help the body reabsorb the blood you can try and run some water over the area a few times a day. As far as if it's still bleeding, sadly other than some sort of heroic effort with surgery, I don't think there is anything. I'm sorry your going thru all of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DogNite Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 My first greyhound succumbed to Hemangiosarcoma back in 2002, and went thru a HUGE Bleed, bigger than what you are showing! I didn't know at the time, that she had the cancer, but my vet figured the rupture happened with increased activity and the tumor being stretched, must have leaked or burst somehow under the skin. The Blood pooling under the skin DID go away! it got really ugly first tho and it took a couple of weeks. But her body did absorb the blood and all the fluid. She had several good months before the tumor got too big, and the mets where in her lungs and everywhere. She didn't seem in pain until the VERY LAST WEEK. PM me if you have other questions or just need another person who's been thru it to vent to! I'm sorry you are going thru this! Quote lorinda, mom to the ever revolving door of Foster greyhounds Always in my heart: Teala (LC Sweet Dream) , Pepton, Darbee-Do (Hey Barb) , Rascal (Abitta Rascal), Power (Beyond the Power), and the miracle boy LAZER (2/21/14), Spirit (Bitter Almonds) 8/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Can't add anything to what has been said, except for more hugs and prayers. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heehoo Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I sent you a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndtime Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) I hate to actually put this in print, but John E had two episodes of blood pooling under the skin like that and we just thought he had injured himself, as they did go away. On the day that he died, his whole body filled up with blood as he apparently had a tumor that burst. We didn't know until it happened. Edited December 15, 2009 by Houndtime Quote Irene Ullmann w/Flying Odin and Mama Mia in Lower Delaware Angels Brandy, John E, American Idol, Paul, Fuzzy and Shine Handcrafted Greyhound and Custom Clocks http://www.houndtime.com Zoom Doggies-Racing Coats for Racing Greyhounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heehoo Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I hate to actually put this in print, but John E had two episodes of blood pooling under the skin like that and we just thought he had injured himself, as they did go away. On the day that he died, his whole body filled up with blood as he aparently had a tumor that burst. We didn't know until it happened. Actually its good that you're being up front. We have PM'd back & forth & I've been brutally honest about Dear's death of hermangiosarcoma. I think that's what is so good about Greytalk, we need to get this information out there. When Bool had it in 2003, I knew nothing about it. When Dear was dianosed in 2007, I read everything I could find, it all said the same thing, malignant usually lives about a month after diagnosed. So the more open we are, the more people learn the symptoms & although there is no cure, at least we can make more time with our pups. Sadly its only a dog cancer, very few cats or any other animals get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytluck Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I spoke to my vet at length after I posted the original thread. The clinic is now closed but he is scheduled to have a clotting profile preformed tomorrow morning as DIC is a major concern with this type of cancer. She said if I was really worried I should go to the E-vet tonight but since he is still eating and alert she doesn't think it is needed. She still feels (by just looking at the photos) that the bleeding has stopped and it's just being distributed across his body. I know this is upsetting to many and hard to take. But honestly with a dog that has hemangio the vet informs you that there is a possibility that the tumors will rupture. I know you want to do something to fix your hound but in this case it sees that there isn't anything that can be done. With hemangio, over time, tumors will either get so big that it effects their breathing or other vitals or tumors rupture and cause a bleed out. This is what happens with hemagio and often times the human has to make the choice for the hound to let them go, before the dog actually goes on their own. It hurts, it sucks, it's not fair, I know. I've dealt with hemagio with 2 hounds. If you think the bleeding has stopped. To help the body reabsorb the blood you can try and run some water over the area a few times a day. As far as if it's still bleeding, sadly other than some sort of heroic effort with surgery, I don't think there is anything. I'm sorry your going thru all of this This is pretty much what my vet said. I trust she is telling me this out of concern for Hobbes' well being. She would certainly get more money if she did all the tests and tried all the meds but she was very honest with me which is hard to hear but I respect her more for it. Quote Hobbes-Ricard Hatch09/23/99-12/21/09 Always loved, never forgotten. Wally TNJ Boy Howdy, GLS Genuinerisk Corinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaGreys Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 My inexperience with this type of cancer is what caused me to wonder why the vet wouldn't at least see him. Cancer is a mean nasty disease, we all know that, but this type is just something I can't even comprehend. You both are in my prayers Quote Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12 For the sick, the lost, and the homeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BellesDad Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm sorry about Hobbes. I am not downplaying the situation but after seeing the picture, it looks a lot worse than it is. It looks awful but this is blood from a burst subcutaneous tumor. I agree with the vet there is nothing to be done. A coagulant isn't going to do anything. This is blood that will be reabsorbed. I know it is hard to believe but I was amazed at how quickly Belle reabsorbed the blood. Belles entire body was black and blue. But she was not in pain. And it went away. The vet visit will just tire Hobbes out. Unless he seems to be in pain I wouldn't take him. That's me. I just want Belle's experience to help someone else out. Please PM me if you want to chat. Honestly this is not that bad even though it looks horrible. I know how you feel which is awful. I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grey_dreams Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 That is so frightening. I hope it looks much worse than it is. I think it must be a good sign that there isn't pain. If it was still bleeding, I would guess that the pressure would build and he would feel pain? I don't know anything about it, it was just a thought. Hope that the worst is now over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The problem with this disease is that the body doesn't recognize that it's bleeding. So adding anticoagulants doesn't work. There's a whole string of chemical reactions that occur when there is an injury. A burst hemangio tumor doesn't start that reaction. That's the problem. Pretty much, hemangio victims bleed to death. He may be lethargic because his blood count is so low now. I'm so sorry. (I lost my first baby Brindle to this horrid disease). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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